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carbon dioxide
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ferric chloride
what will happen if we add sodium chloride to a ferric chloride solution that reacts with copper?
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JohnWW
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The excess Cl- would result in the formation of the FeCl4- anion.
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carbon dioxide
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thanks
what will be the influence on the reaction between the ferreic chloride and the copper?
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JohnWW
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The reaction of FeCl4- with metallic copper was thoroughly thrashed out on a different thread on this forum some months ago, about August. In the
presence of an oxidant, the mixture, in fact used for etching, can cause surface pitting/dissolution of the Cu as Cu(II), the Fe(III) acting (in my
opinion at least) catalytically.
[Edited on 2-2-2005 by JohnWW]
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tom haggen
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would it be possible to syntheisize ferric chloride by this method?
FeNO3 + NaCO3 ---> NaNO3 +FeCO3
--> 2FeCO3 + 6HCl ---> 2FeCl3-H2O + 2CO2 + H20?
N/A
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JohnWW
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Some of the formulae in those equations are wrong. Fe(II) nitrate is Fe(NO3)2. Sodum carbonate is Na2CO3. To produce Fe(III) from Fe(II) requires the
presence of a reactive moderate oxidant (but a too reactive one would result in Fe(VI))..
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tom haggen
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I'm pretty sure the store that sell ferric nitrate sells the Fe(NO3)3, I was having a really hard time finding a balanced equation. Is it even
possible to synthesize FeCO3 from Fe(NO3)3?
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chloric1
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No
Ferric ion is highly protonated. As soon as the pH of a ferric ion solution rises above about 3, hydroxy complexes begin to form and too much higher
hydrated Ferric oxide separates from solution. Ferrous sulfate would yield ferrous carbonate a bluish-green precipitate exceedingly sensitive to air
oxidation.
Oh yea as a little aside, I have a little over 400 grams of Ferric nitrate which is mostly a pale violet but has the brown crust of hydroxy
complexes. When I want a clear solution of this salt I usually add 5 or so grams of HNO3 to get everything in solution. So sometimes ordinary
exposure to moisture in the air causes hydrolysis of ferric salts.
[Edited on 4/17/2005 by chloric1]
Fellow molecular manipulator
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tom haggen
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Any idea on how to synthesize FeSO4-7H20? I assume it can be done with the regular; sulfuric acid + NO3 salt ----> HNO3 + sulfate salt. I tried
balancing this equation and it was impossible.
[Edited on 17-4-2005 by tom haggen]
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hodges
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What is difficult about balancing the equation?
Fe(NO3)2 + H2SO4 ---> FeSO4 + 2HNO3
I think I misunderstood something about the question.
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The_Davster
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I think he was trying to balance
Fe(NO3)2 + H2SO4 ---> FeSO4.7H2O + HNO3 instead of the
Fe(NO3)2 + H2SO4 ---> FeSO4 + 2HNO3 and then
FeSO4 +7H2O --->FeSO4.7H2O
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tom haggen
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Yes I was trying to balance the FeSO4.7H20
So My reaction will go:
Fe(NO3)2 + H2SO4 ---> FeSO4 + 2HNO3
FeSO4 + 7H2O ----> FeSO4.7H20
FeSO4.7H2O + Na2CO3 ---> FeCO3 + Na2SO4 + 7H2O
2FeCO3 + 6HCl ---> 2FeCl3 + 2CO2 + 3H2 + O2?
[Edited on 17-4-2005 by tom haggen]
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neutrino
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The problem is that your iron goes from Fe (II) to Fe (III) in that last step.
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tom haggen
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Ok well the carbonate Ion is 2-,
So basically theres no way to get Ferric(III)Chloride from ferrous carbonate?
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chloric1
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Well..yes
Yes there is..indirectly of coarse. You dissolve ferrous carbonate in HCl to get ferrous chloride then add H2O2 or bubble chlorine gas in. You could
anode oxidize this ferrous chloride using a porous ceramic diaphragm and a graphite anode. Really you ahve several options open find out what you can
on a search or a trip to the library.
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cyclonite4
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You could always buy FeCl3 from electronics suppliers as an etchant.
Apparently it can be made by passing chlorine through glowing-red steel wool. Personally I would value Fe(NO3)3 more than FeCl3.
[Edited on 18-4-2005 by cyclonite4]
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
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tom haggen
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Ya I guess I wasn't aware that you could buy ferric chloride over the counter. I just know a store that sells technical grade Fe(NO3)3 and I was
trying to get creative. I will look into purchasing it. I am still interested in ferrous carbonate though. Just out of curiousity would you use FeCl3
for etching circuit boards? So I know what to ask for...
Edit: I just figured out that it's sold at radio shack of all places.. Do you have any Idea what the oxidation state of The iron cation is in
this over the counter product?
[Edited on 19-4-2005 by tom haggen]
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cyclonite4
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Yes, it is used for etching circuit boards, and the oxidation state of Iron in FeCl3 is 3+ (Fe3+).
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
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tom haggen
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Yea I knew the oxidation state in Fe(III) was 3+ I just wasn't sure if they were selling FeCl2. Anyway, I'm still hell bent on synthesizing
my own for fun.
Once I get some ferric nitrate and figure out the oxidation state of the Iron cation I will go from there, but that probably wont be for a while, I
will post my results here.
[Edited on 19-4-2005 by tom haggen]
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cyclonite4
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About your Iron (Ferric) Nitrate:
When the Iron cation is in the 2+ oxidation state, it is referred to as the Ferrous cation.
When the Iron cation is in the 3+ oxidation state, it is referred to as the Ferric cation.
Thus, if you say you have Ferric Nitrate, you have Iron (III) Nitrate, thus the oxidation state of Iron is 3+, which gives
you Fe(NO3)3. So there is no need to physically determine what cation you have if you indeed know it is Ferric Nitrate.
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tom haggen
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Ok well I went to the surplus store and sure enough they were selling ferric nitrate. I was thinking about doing a reaction with sulfuric acid to get
some ferric sulfate, and from there reacting and get ferric carbonate. However, I'm finding it very difficult to write a balanced reaction.
Ferrous nitrate to ferrous sulfate is easy enough to balance since the oxidation state of iron is 2+ and every thing balances nicely. But the 3+
oxidation state of iron in ferric nitrate throughs every thing off. This brings me to my question. Is ferric sulfate even possible? If not what
happens when your react ferric nitrate with sulfuric acid?
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The_Davster
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If it is possible it would go like:
2Fe(NO3)3 +3H2SO4 --> Fe2(SO4)3 +6HNO3
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neutrino
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The problem here is that you need something to react with Fe (III) to form Fe (II). Oxidation numbers don't just change by themselves. Adding
solid iron ought to work here according to this equation:
2Fe<sup>3+</sup> + Fe -> 3Fe<sup>2+</sup>
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cyclonite4
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neutrino, are you referring to the equation rogue chemist provided? If so, the oxidation state hasn't changed at all, its 3+ on both sides.
If the reaction works, I think it would be economical to make use of the nitric acid also produced.
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tom haggen
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Would this also work?
Fe2(SO4)3 + 3Na2CO3 --> Fe2(CO3)3 + 3Na2SO4
Fe2(CO3)3 + 6HCl ----> 2FeCl3 + 3H2O + 3CO2
N/A
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