xfusion44
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Copper (II) chloride - green flame for fireworks
Hi!
Long time ago I've made some copper (ii) chloride and it makes nice green color, when exposed to flame. I thought, that this would be excellent
addition to smoke bombs (with KNO3 and sugar), to make green colored flame, coming out of reaction mixture. Today I've tested this: I mixed some CuCl2
powder with KNO3 and sugar. Then I've set fire to it and it didn't want to change the color of the flame  It was still white and little violet, because of potassium in KNO3, but I don't know why it didn't work. I've also
tested it mixed with ethanol and the results were same - still didn't work. It only works, when I put small amount of CuCl2 on mixing rod and expose
it to flame. I also made some LiCl, which also can give nice red flame on mixing rod, but I don't even know, if it's worth trying it with KNO3 and
sugar, since I would probably end up with same results as for CuCl2. Do I need different compounds to make colored flame for fireworks, or something?
I also found this site, which doesnt mention CuCl2 as being colorant for fireworks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrotechnic_colorant
Maybe this would be the reason? I think, it doesn't work, just because it's mixed, not just held in flame.
Any help would be appreciated  And please, sorry for my english.
Best regards, xfusion44
[Edited on 26-9-2014 by xfusion44]
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careysub
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You really need to invest in a book on fireworks, where these issues are explained in excellent detail.
If you have a subscription to Scribd you can read Dr. Takeo Shimizu's "Fireworks: The Art, Science, and Technique", a truly monumental scientific (not
just practical) work. Looks like it is a $130 purchase otherwise.
All that is known of making colored fires will be made known to you (more or less).
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Brain&Force
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That is really weird. I have no issues with methanol and CuCl2 and lighting the solution. Beautiful sea green flame.
Are you sure what you have is CuCl2? Dissolve some in water, and do the following:
Add aluminium foil. Only copper and chloride together can dissolve aluminium foil.
Spray the mixture into an open flame.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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Bert
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In my experience, Potassium nitrate is useless for a good blue colored pyrotechnic flame.
I have not bothered to make blue fire mixes with Copper compounds and methanol, as the flame of pure alcohol is ALLREADY BLUE! Some who make such
mixtures (for outdoors use only!) have added some methylene chloride to the alcohol to serve as a chlorine donor. THIS CAN GENERATE PHOSGENE GAS, do
not try it indoors!!!
Black Copper oxide with any of several sugars (lactose was always popular, sucrose will work...) and Potassium chlorate are a classic recipe for BLUE
fire. Cuprous chloride (CuCl) was a traditional favorite for blue stars, as was Copper oxy chloride and copper aceto arsenite (Paris green). CuCl2,
not so much.
Potassium perchlorate, Copper carbonate, an organic fuel such as red gum and a SMALL amount of Magnesium will make you a bright blue flame, one that
is best viewed from a good distance away. You may use a small percentage of Sulfur instead of the Magnesium when using PERCHLORATE, but DO NOT try a
sulfur fueled CHLORATE mixture.
Ammonium perchlorate and Copper benzoate with a small ammount of lactose as a binder make a very nice blue, about as simple a mixture as you will find
for this effect.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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xfusion44
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@careysub
Thanks for that, I'm sure, I will search for this book
@Brain&Force
Yes, I'm sure, that I have CuCl2 I've tried this (reaction with aluminium foil
and CuCl2) as soon as I made my first CuCl2 and it did react to give produce copper out of copper chloride
I didn't tried yet with methanol, because I don't have it and I'm little scared, because I don't know how it effects on you if it accidentaly comes in
contact with skin (I've read that it can blind you), but it didn't worked with ethanol, when I tried it, maybe I had too low concentration, I'll give
it another try
@Bert
I didn't say, that I'm using KNO3 for flame coloring It's there just for giving
off oxygen, so that sugar can burn
I really don't know, what results I would get if I'd use methanol instead of ethanol, but unfortunately I don't have methanol at hand currently.
And thanks for all that informational stuff
I decided to try again with ethanol, before posting this and it worked, but I used rather highly concentrated mixture of ethanol and anhydrous copper
chloride, maybe I should try with higher concentration of anhydrous CuCl2 in mixture with KNO3 and sugar? Because first time I used CuCl2 dihydrate,
is this maybe the reason that it didn't work? After the mixture stopped burning I could see some anhydrous CuCl2, so it must've dried it when it was
on fire, but it didn't colored the flame.
PS: here are some pictures (not best quality, but enough that you can see). (just for comparison between burning CuCl2 in the air and in ethanol).
[Edited on 26-9-2014 by xfusion44]
   
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Bert
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Methanol + flame colorants burn with better colors due to lower amount of carbon in flame envelope- Free carbon causes the flame to look yellow.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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xfusion44
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Quote: Originally posted by Bert  | | Methanol + flame colorants burn with better colors due to lower amount of carbon in flame envelope- Free carbon causes the flame to look yellow.
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Oh, so that's probably the reason, why it's giving better colors with methanol.
But, how about mixing KNO3 + sugar + CuCl2 (anhydrous), can I expect better results with anhydrous CuCl2, than with dihydrate?
Thanks!
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nezza
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The best green flame colorant I have found for pyrotechnics is Barium chlorate. It gives an intense green colour, but Barium residues are toxic. I
suspect Copper(II) chloride is hygroscopic so will not work too well in dry compositions.
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Bert
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| Quote: |
But, how about mixing KNO3 + sugar + CuCl2 (anhydrous), can I expect better results with anhydrous CuCl2, than with dihydrate?
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Try using CuCl (Copper (I) chloride, cuprous chloride) INSTEAD of CuCl2 (Copper (II) chloride, cupric chloride). Then try substituting Potassium
chlorate for Potassium nitrate. Try using lactose instead of sucrose. Let us know how these compare...
If you just want a nice green methanol flame, use boric acid... This forms trimethyl borate, and gives a good effect for little cost. Be careful of
the fumes, do this outdoors or with an adequate hood! Methanol based gas line drier (HEET) and cheap roach powder are easy sources for the chemicals.
ALLWAYS avoid the fumes from burning methanol, these contain some formaldehyde. The warnings of blindness caused by ingesting methanol are due to
methanol metabolizing to formaldehyde in the body- Formaldehyde has an affinity for the optic nerves.
[Edited on 26-9-2014 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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xfusion44
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@nezza
Looks like Barium chlorate isn't so cheap on ebay  Is there any other site
where I can buy it cheaper?
@Bert
But where to get CuCl? There will be probably no problem to get other stuff as you mentioned... I've read that CuCl2 decomposes to Cl2 and Cu and some
CuCl + 0.5Cl, but I'm not sure if it's true?
Thanks
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xfusion44
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Hm, looks like this guy had the same problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqWFm0spsFo
Copper chloride just doesn't want to give green flame...
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