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wish i had a kraken!!!
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I need help! for electrodeposition of copper
recently I made a solution composed of:
500 cc tap water + 100 grams of CuSO4 + 25 cc of sulfuric acid (concentration is about 58 percent )
I used this solution for electrodeposition of Cu on Al wires (2mm diameter , these wires are used as fillers in Aluminium brazing it is said the type
of this Al alloy is known to be 4043 )in room temprature I used 5 volts DC power supply (Cellphone Charger) and the copper deposited on the wires but
it is awful!!! with applying a small amount of force the deposited layer detachs from the Al wires!
How can I increase the adhesion bitween electro deposited layer and its substrate? need help
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arkoma
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aluminum has a stubborn ass oxidation layer--I know this cuz my uncle has a body shop. yer gonna need to get rid of the Al oxide layer methinks
<<< should point you in right googling direction
edit--maybe etch with hydrochloric acid, rinse with distiiled water, then try electroplate? Let me know how turns out
[Edited on 7-18-2014 by arkoma]
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Texium
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Aluminum will always quickly reform the oxide layer. Also if you were to attempt to etch the oxide off of such a small piece using HCl, the aluminum
metal would dissolve practically as soon as the acid ate through the oxide layer. Generally, aluminum is seen as something practically impossible to
plate or be plated.
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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ok , I'll try it
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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guys plz have a look at this
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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And this
 as you can see the deposited layer of Cu is seprated it looks like a hat! for that Al object , when i was removing it i used lots of force ! and the
Cu thing is strong enough that wont be torn apart with ease!
[Edited on 18-7-2014 by wish i had a kraken!!!]
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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The Cu object achived by electrodeposition of Cu on Al
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papaya
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What about a plan like:
1. immerse Al cathode into dilute H2SO4 yet NOT containing CuSO4 in mixture
This will clean surface oxide and some H2 will start to be produced
2. Turn on DC : this will prevent Al from further attack
3. Add CuSO4 solution : a deposition will start
t
(only theorizing, but I'v seen good commercial Cu coating on Al).
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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but for the Al wires of 2 mm diameter it is awful! the copper does not stick to the Al nor it forms uniform strong Cu layer :-(
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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papaya your idea seems good !
I got questions by the way ,1. after I add the CuSO4 it needs some time to be solved you think it wont have any effect on the process? 2. I need to
repeat the process several times so your plan seems so complicated for this purpose
I think what u have seen is not produced by electrodeposition , I think it is called clading , a process in which an Al cylinder is placed within a
copper tube then the whole object will be extruded through specific chanelles it reduces its diameter but its length increases they do the process
several times till they have an Al wire cladded with Copper
[Edited on 18-7-2014 by wish i had a kraken!!!]
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WGTR
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You can't plate copper onto aluminum using a copper sulfate plating bath. The copper forms an immersion deposit immediately upon insertion into the
bath, and this deposit is not adherent to the aluminum.
There are extra steps that involve an immersion deposit of zinc onto the aluminum from a zincate bath, plating with cyanide copper, and then copper
sulfate to build up the plating. Even then, it takes practice to get the cleaning and plating steps working so that the copper will stick.
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violet sin
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a softer plate may be helpful for adherence. meaning the tensile strength of the copper is decreased with an alternative plating bath. sulfamic acid
is known to lay down copper and nickel with low tensile strength. it can be advantageous when mobility is required, or if the strain of the copper
would otherwise impede the metal below. looking into the sulfamic acid method, it was stated that some articles plated with standard acidic copper
baths would actually lay down with so much strain it would lead to early failure of the metal below with mild/moderate use, even steel.
all my pdf's on sulfamic acid are on another computer, sorry I can't just link or attach them. on the hathi book trust site there are several books
available about electroforming/electrodeposition of nickel for rocket thrust cones. they went into a fair amount of detail while describing the
method of laying cooling and preheating plumbing into a solid nickel inner jacket, or filling over other metal jackets. Ill try to find one of those
real quick,...
NASA technical memorandum:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112106563783;vi...
pg. 3 starts to talk about the sulfamic acid electrodeposition of nickel with a boric acid pH adjustment to ensure proper finished material
characteristics.
handbook of practical electroplating:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015000449119;vie...
electroplating for the metallurgist, engineer and chemist:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89089717318;view=1u...
plating on aluminum, a thesis for bachelor degree:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89085049575;view=1u...
pg. 3 " pure aluminum, when exposed to air, is acted upon by free oxygen in air, with a resulting layer of alumina. a studies of aluminum rectifiers
has revealed the fact that it takes but approximately one one-thousandth of a second for a layer of alumina to be formed on the aluminum, where the
metal is used as an anode in an electrolytic cell"
development of a soft soldering system for aluminum:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015078488718;vie...
that should get ya started  there is a LOT of freaking info on that site. I
fully suggest getting the hathi-helper program to snag searchable pdf's. once you start downloading, you will find they have books on things you
didn't even know you were interested in
-Violet Sin-
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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Quote: Originally posted by violet sin  | a softer plate may be helpful for adherence. meaning the tensile strength of the copper is decreased with an alternative plating bath. sulfamic acid
is known to lay down copper and nickel with low tensile strength. it can be advantageous when mobility is required, or if the strain of the copper
would otherwise impede the metal below. looking into the sulfamic acid method, it was stated that some articles plated with standard acidic copper
baths would actually lay down with so much strain it would lead to early failure of the metal below with mild/moderate use, even steel.
all my pdf's on sulfamic acid are on another computer, sorry I can't just link or attach them. on the hathi book trust site there are several books
available about electroforming/electrodeposition of nickel for rocket thrust cones. they went into a fair amount of detail while describing the
method of laying cooling and preheating plumbing into a solid nickel inner jacket, or filling over other metal jackets. Ill try to find one of those
real quick,...
NASA technical memorandum:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112106563783;vi...
pg. 3 starts to talk about the sulfamic acid electrodeposition of nickel with a boric acid pH adjustment to ensure proper finished material
characteristics.
handbook of practical electroplating:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015000449119;vie...
electroplating for the metallurgist, engineer and chemist:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89089717318;view=1u...
plating on aluminum, a thesis for bachelor degree:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89085049575;view=1u...
pg. 3 " pure aluminum, when exposed to air, is acted upon by free oxygen in air, with a resulting layer of alumina. a studies of aluminum rectifiers
has revealed the fact that it takes but approximately one one-thousandth of a second for a layer of alumina to be formed on the aluminum, where the
metal is used as an anode in an electrolytic cell"
development of a soft soldering system for aluminum:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015078488718;vie...
that should get ya started there is a LOT of freaking info on that site. I
fully suggest getting the hathi-helper program to snag searchable pdf's. once you start downloading, you will find they have books on things you
didn't even know you were interested in
-Violet Sin- |
I am not a partner institution they won't allow me to download that books
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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| Quote: Originally posted by WGTR | You can't plate copper onto aluminum using a copper sulfate plating bath. The copper forms an immersion deposit immediately upon insertion into the
bath, and this deposit is not adherent to the aluminum.
There are extra steps that involve an immersion deposit of zinc onto the aluminum from a zincate bath, plating with cyanide copper, and then copper
sulfate to build up the plating. Even then, it takes practice to get the cleaning and plating steps working so that the copper will stick.
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From where can I get the info about the method u described?
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violet sin
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they don't let most people download books. I have >20gb of books from there, use hathihelper to download the books, it cheats for you. http://qt-apps.org/content/show.php/Hathi+Download+Helper?co...
WONDERFUL program, you will dig it. pretty easy to use. open the program, now go to the hathi site to a "full view" of the book and coppy the net
address. paste it into the top field of hathi download helper. the second section down starts downloading the pages, click the options you wanna use
for format. I choose the 1 pdf per page and click the box "create pdf after download". when download is complete, you click the third tier down
button to assemble the books if it hasn't done it already for you.
easy peasy, go get 'em
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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Thanks :-)
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blogfast25
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Does it also, like so many cheats, install malware on your tooter? Because that's how these 'freebies' usually recoup their development costs...
Not so long ago a moderator here proposed using a particular freebie to download free stuff: two weeks later I was still cleaning up after it!
Wow. You've just made a copper crucible! 
[Edited on 19-7-2014 by blogfast25]
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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Thanks but its outter surface looks non-uniform it looks like tree ! :-) do u know any good application for it?
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BromicAcid
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So sad, all of these posts and no one asked the amperage of his power supply. Just a little cell phone charger will likely take forever to get good
results. Standard issue is a hacked computer power supply to get good amps. If you're in the US I could hook you up with one.
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violet sin
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blogfast25:
..... "Does it also, like so many cheats, install malware on your tooter? Because that's how these 'freebies' usually recoup their development
costs...
Not so long ago a moderator here proposed using a particular freebie to download free stuff: two weeks later I was still cleaning up after it!"......
could you be a little more specific on what you mean by this, please? I have gathered ≥20gb of books from hathi and I check my comppy with
malwarebytes and avg at least a few times a month if not once a week. nev had any problems on my end.
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WGTR
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Here is a very basic idea of what to do:
http://www.pfonline.com/articles/copper-plating-on-aluminum-...
Aluminum comes in different alloys, and the cleaning process varies for each one. For silicon-containing alloys HF is needed for example.
If you do not have much experience plating, I would recommended trying to plate something other than aluminum. If you are just using the aluminum as
a sacrificial mandrel, then you don't want much adhesion anyway, as you'll just be dissolving it with hydroxide afterwards.
Plating is a well-developed art that takes a long time to learn properly, especially if you are making your own plating baths. There is a large jump
in time, effort, and results, from plating nickels with some root killer vs. proper copper electroforming. I think most people don't realize what
all is involved in the process.
Certainly, I would encourage you to try, just be prepared to do a lot of reading and searching online. There are good articles on the PFonline.com
and Finishing.com websites, and some of the newer previewable books on Google are helpful. The older ones from the early 1900's are of limited
utility. Plating has come a long way since then.
Looking at the picture you posted, I'll offer some hopefully helpful advice. The acid copper solution needs to be quite pure. There are a lot of
nodules on your part partly because of contamination. If you're using copper sulfate of hardware store variety, at the least make sure several
recrystallizations are done on it before you use it. After the plating bath is made up, filter it well. You can't filter it too much. Commercial
operations use continuous filtration with a pump, with several solution turnovers every hour. Agitation is vital. In a beaker the plating solution
needs to be stirred, or electrolyte depletion can occur at the high current density areas. This will manifest itself as "burning", with dark areas
forming at the edges of the part, and nodule growth. In the absence of proprietary additives, one needs to use pulse-reverse plating to interrupt
crystal growth of the copper. This is a big topic, and you'll have to read up on it if you're interested. It works wonders though. If proper
frequency, forward current, reverse current, and duty cycle are selected, beautiful smooth deposits of copper form with ease. For an anode in copper
sulfate baths, rigid copper pipe works well (the rolled stuff that is used for plumbing). The types in my area are phosphorous-deoxidized, and
dissolve cleanly into the bath, as long as sulfuric acid levels remain high enough.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to be an electroplating "coach", but hopefully this has given a little help.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by violet sin | blogfast25:
could you be a little more specific on what you mean by this, please? I have gathered ≥20gb of books from hathi and I check my comppy with
malwarebytes and avg at least a few times a month if not once a week. nev had any problems on my end. |
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=28403#...
My experience with freebies in general hasn't been positive, because of malware that often hitches a ride along with the software or website involved.
And cheating is a form of theft, no matter how you look at it.
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violet sin
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@ Blogfast25:
ya I hear what you are saying, I have encountered that issue as well in the past. I have just never had any problem what so ever with hathi download
helper though. I thought you were referencing a specific incident or problem. many a freeware programs have leach along programs, but many also can
be carefully selected to not install. that is if you pay attention to each window that pops up while in the process. usually there are small boxes
here and there, pre-checked, saying you want to install additional programs. so instead of just clicking, ya, ya, ya, ya, finish, you have to be a
bit more discerning. and of course some installs just do it 
I couldn't disagree more on your second statement though. to each their own I guess. almost all the papers/books from hathi are old, most not
even close to today's technology. downloaded for reference and obscure practices/experiments. these guys have already been paid in full, lived a
long life, and many have died since the time this was new. the only one not making a buck is the printers, and I am not taking physical pages from
any one. its just data.
I am not one to screw people out of anything they deserve,.. golden rule and all... but I don't see how that applies here. I am not suggesting
we ripp off current papers that took millions to research this year, and I doubt many people here would even have a problem with that. b/c, as
amateurs we aren't making a living off this, we certainly aren't grabbing these and selling pdf's on ebay, we aren't building competing tech/info
companies with stolen data, we do it for the curiosity of what we can accomplish in our lab/garage/basement/sheds across the world. specifically to
understand it better, and of course a little braggin rights amongst our peers 
knowledge was/is gathered for the betterment of all. this stuff should be free. technically, if I had the time and desire to do so, I could take
screen shots of each page and build my own books. so if I can do it the really, really, painfully slow way with no law breaking. then why not use
the silly program to do the same thing.
my 2¢, take it or leave it, your call.
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arkoma
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OFF topic
"Information wants to be free" Proud member of the California Pirate Party here. Google "mickey mouse copyright extension" to see how ludicrous it's
gotten. Copyright was instituted as a tool of political repression by Mary Tudor. The US constitution says it is for "the promotion of the useful
arts and sciences" period.
Guess I am a thief.
And the solution to malware/viruses is to ditch anything from Redmond (m$) and put penguins/GNU software under the hood.
My 25 cents
edit--corrected bold bb tag
[Edited on 7-19-2014 by arkoma]
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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blogfast25
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Yes, but you can't justify modern copyright infringement based on that. Copyright doesn't today exist for political reasons: for political oppression
G'ments use censorship, gag orders etc, it's not the same at all.
Copyright is a thorny issue but ask yourself a simple question. Suppose you'd written a book and a you wanted to disseminate it through the
Tinkerwebs, in a pay for version. Now some hackers start distributing free copies of the same book. How would that make you feel?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
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