thesmug
Hazard to Others
Posts: 370
Registered: 17-1-2014
Location: Chicago, Il (USA)
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Iodine drying
I was making some iodine earlier today (via KI + HCl) and after filtering it, it was still really wet. I know it's insoluble in water, so drying
should be easy, but it's taking forever. Is there any way of drying it (not with sulfuric acid) that would take less time, but also wouldn't
risk subliming too much of it?
|
|
|
HgDinis25
Hazard to Others
Posts: 439
Registered: 14-3-2014
Location: Portugal
Member Is Offline
Mood: Who drank my mercury?
|
|
You could use a dessicator chamber or, much easier, one of nurdrage's dessicator bag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJFfS_YbbYI
He explains very well how it works.
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4618
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Online
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
It doesn't seem like a desiccator would exactly fit the taking less time parameter, as it may take many days.
The best and fastest method for drying the iodine is probably still by using concentrated sulfuric acid, as described in this thread:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22658
|
|
|
thesmug
Hazard to Others
Posts: 370
Registered: 17-1-2014
Location: Chicago, Il (USA)
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks! How long would about 5g of I2 take to dry in a desiccator with NaOH?
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4618
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Online
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Well, it depends on how wet the iodine is. I guess since iodine is not water soluble, if you got enough of the water off of it, it may not take too
long. Ambient humidity can also play a role when you first place the sample in the desiccator, so keep that in mind if it doesn't seem to be drying at
first. It may still take hours.
|
|
|
thesmug
Hazard to Others
Posts: 370
Registered: 17-1-2014
Location: Chicago, Il (USA)
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by zts16  | | Well, it depends on how wet the iodine is. I guess since iodine is not water soluble, if you got enough of the water off of it, it may not take too
long. Ambient humidity can also play a role when you first place the sample in the desiccator, so keep that in mind if it doesn't seem to be drying at
first. It may still take hours. |
Is there risk of loss by sublimation when letting it sit so long? I ask because my iodine was subliming as soon as I removed it from the water.
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4618
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Online
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
That is definitely a risk, which is why I originally suggested not using a desiccator. If you had no other options though, it may finish drying
before you lose too much through sublimation. It depends on how much iodine you are willing to lose.
You could also possibly cool it down a bit, which would decrease the rate of sublimation, although it would also probably decrease the rate of
desiccation.
|
|
|
HgDinis25
Hazard to Others
Posts: 439
Registered: 14-3-2014
Location: Portugal
Member Is Offline
Mood: Who drank my mercury?
|
|
You will always lose more iodine when you let it sit than using a dessicator bag. If you use, for example, 3 cups of powdered NaOH (to increase
surface area and increase location of the NaOH inside the bag) it could take you less than 12 hours.
You could also try to wash it with pure methanol or pure ethanol. The alcohol would drive away the water and would be a lot easier to evaporate at
room temp.
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4618
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Online
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Oh yeah, I didn't even think about alcohol washing. That's probably your best bet.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Hopefully you didn't think of alcohols because of how soluble iodine is in alcohols. For example, 19.35 wt% in EtOH. And drying in a desiccator,
most people that have dealt with iodine know how much it loves to sublime, there will be losses, possibly significant depending on how long you dry,
some to the NaOH and some to the inside of the lid of the dissector. Question is, do you need dry iodine? You could sublime it yourself to try to
dry it, patting with a paper towel will remove the bulk of the water, but sulfuric acid is still your best way to go.
|
|
|
HgDinis25
Hazard to Others
Posts: 439
Registered: 14-3-2014
Location: Portugal
Member Is Offline
Mood: Who drank my mercury?
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid | | Hopefully you didn't think of alcohols because of how soluble iodine is in alcohols. For example, 19.35 wt% in EtOH. And drying in a desiccator,
most people that have dealt with iodine know how much it loves to sublime, there will be losses, possibly significant depending on how long you dry,
some to the NaOH and some to the inside of the lid of the dissector. Question is, do you need dry iodine? You could sublime it yourself to try to
dry it, patting with a paper towel will remove the bulk of the water, but sulfuric acid is still your best way to go. |
I've dried iodine my making a quick wash with chilled methanol, in a vacuum filtration apparatus. It worked like a charm, but yes, iodine is soluble
in the simplest alcohols.
|
|
|
thesmug
Hazard to Others
Posts: 370
Registered: 17-1-2014
Location: Chicago, Il (USA)
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thank you all for your suggestions. I have also dried it for a while now and (sadly) lost most of it in my filter paper and by sublimation. I will
retain your suggestions for when I do it again later. I also know that I2 is soluble in toluene, so wouldn't you be able to dissolve it and let the
toluene evaporate?
|
|
|
HgDinis25
Hazard to Others
Posts: 439
Registered: 14-3-2014
Location: Portugal
Member Is Offline
Mood: Who drank my mercury?
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by thesmug | | Thank you all for your suggestions. I have also dried it for a while now and (sadly) lost most of it in my filter paper and by sublimation. I will
retain your suggestions for when I do it again later. I also know that I2 is soluble in toluene, so wouldn't you be able to dissolve it and let the
toluene evaporate? |
Why not dissolve it in methanol instead? It evaporets quicker. But if you don't have it, toluene should work too. Or use toluene to do a wash like I
described before. Also, I wonder if it's soluble in glycerin. If it is, then heating a solution of iodine in glycerin should leave water behind and
sublime iodine directly out of the glycerin solution (is this mere speculation and nonsense, or can it happen)?
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Dissolving in toluene would let you phase off the water....
|
|
|
thesmug
Hazard to Others
Posts: 370
Registered: 17-1-2014
Location: Chicago, Il (USA)
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I knew that, which is why I suggested toluene as opposed to an alcohol.
[EDIT] Is there any solvent that you would be able to recrystallize iodine with?
[Edited on 3/16/14 by thesmug]
|
|
|
Mercedesbenzene
Hazard to Self
Posts: 64
Registered: 4-9-2011
Location: BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sub Zero
|
|
What I do, and it seems to work fairly well, is that I take the wet iodine and put it into a sealed bottle for storage with 4A molecular sieves. The
4-8 mesh sieves are quite easy to remove as well due to their size.
|
|
|
thesmug
Hazard to Others
Posts: 370
Registered: 17-1-2014
Location: Chicago, Il (USA)
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Mercedesbenzene | | What I do, and it seems to work fairly well, is that I take the wet iodine and put it into a sealed bottle for storage with 4A molecular sieves. The
4-8 mesh sieves are quite easy to remove as well due to their size. |
All you have to do is put them in the same container? I will try that!
|
|
|
Bezaleel
Hazard to Others
Posts: 444
Registered: 28-2-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: transitional
|
|
Yet something else you may try, but this is definitely NOT a quick method, is to add some powdered CaCl2, and put that in a well closing vial. When
you place the vial in a warm environment, and cool one side of it, then iodine will crystallise on the cooled side of your vial over time, while the
wetted CaCl2 will remain on the bottom of your vial.
The setup is primitive, but does work (to my own astonishment). You'll have an almost 100% yield and shiny crystals. My setup was to put the bottle
next to a cold water pipe in the room where the boiler is (that heats the room). After a few months, the separation was complete.
I guess you could speed up the method, if you put the mixtue in a long tube that is closed on one side. Putting in the mixture and very gentle heating
at the closed end, may sublime your iodine which will crystallise in the cold region of the tube. Keep the tube horizontal.
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4618
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Online
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Bezaleel | Yet something else you may try, but this is definitely NOT a quick method, is to add some powdered CaCl2, and put that in a well closing vial. When
you place the vial in a warm environment, and cool one side of it, then iodine will crystallise on the cooled side of your vial over time, while the
wetted CaCl2 will remain on the bottom of your vial.
The setup is primitive, but does work (to my own astonishment). You'll have an almost 100% yield and shiny crystals. My setup was to put the bottle
next to a cold water pipe in the room where the boiler is (that heats the room). After a few months, the separation was complete.
I guess you could speed up the method, if you put the mixtue in a long tube that is closed on one side. Putting in the mixture and very gentle heating
at the closed end, may sublime your iodine which will crystallise in the cold region of the tube. Keep the tube horizontal.
|
Wow, that sounds like a really cool method to use. I'll definitely try that when I isolate some iodine.
|
|
|
Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1681
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
|
|
dont use acetone on it tho..
you can take the filter paper and fold it in half, then dub cotton or tissue paper on the sides of it to remove water quite effectively, this will
reduce drying time alot
also if you use dessicator bag dont dump plastic into it, it will take several months and may never even become perfectly clear again.. ~~speaking of
experience~~
CaCl2 + iodine inside one flask is a quite interesting idea tho, simplicity is underrated
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
