sarinox
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 21-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Problems in producing nitrocellulose
I have tried so many methods (methods I found on the Internet!) to make Nitrocellulose however , these experiences were not successful does anyone
know a guaranteed way to make NC???
|
|
|
Dornier 335A
Hazard to Others
Posts: 231
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: Northern Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Could you describe which processes you have attempted? That would make it a lot easier for us to tell what you are doing wrong.
|
|
|
TheChemiKid
Hazard to Others
Posts: 493
Registered: 5-8-2013
Location: ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have also had problems with the synthesis of nitrocellulose. I added the stoichiometric amounts of potassium nitrate and sulfuric acid to cotton
balls. No matter what I do, they disintegrate instantly. When I tried with a cotton shirt, it became mushy and after sitting for 30 minutes, I took
out the pieces, and when I washed them, they completely fell apart. I let the scraps that I could salvage dry. After they dried, I tested
flammability. The product charred, but didn't burn.
What happened?
When the police come
\( * O * )/ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
|
|
|
ecos
Hazard to Others
Posts: 464
Registered: 6-3-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Learning !
|
|
did you try this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ5q9G1lHUc
|
|
|
TheChemiKid
Hazard to Others
Posts: 493
Registered: 5-8-2013
Location: ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes. As well as the NightHawkInLight procedure.
When the police come
\( * O * )/ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
|
|
|
packetforger
Harmless
Posts: 48
Registered: 21-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Condensing
|
|
Unless I am mistaken, you need a fair excess of the acids to perform the NC synth reliably (as in, get a decent product). Breaking the cotton up into
small pieces also helps a lot, as does lots of stirring and good temperature control.
It has been about 4 years since I did this though, so my memories/opinion may well be a bit iffy (heck, I have trouble remembering last week with good
clarity!), but temperature control and leaving it to react for long enough, along with using a decent excess of acid, seemed to be important factors.
I remember an old college friend of mine gave it a shot before to try make flash paper and forgot to bother with temp control, pretty much immediate
runaway reaction in his bedroom. Avoiding the evolution of NOx gases seemed to be a constant in ensuring you got a decent quality product, as was
adequate washing, neutralization and drying afterwards (chopping up the wet product in bicarb solution and then good amount of washing with water,
followed by allowing to dry for a few days out of direct sunlight with decent airflow worked pretty well after "squeezing" most of the moisture out of
it).
|
|
|
ecos
Hazard to Others
Posts: 464
Registered: 6-3-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Learning !
|
|
I am sorry but I have a question here.
if we used cellulose instead of nitrocellulose with NG, would that affect the quality ? if yes , how much would it affect it?
|
|
|
Dornier 335A
Hazard to Others
Posts: 231
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: Northern Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Cellulose isn't soluble in NG, so you wouldn't get a gel.
|
|
|
ecos
Hazard to Others
Posts: 464
Registered: 6-3-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Learning !
|
|
from the steps I have , I mix Cellulose with hot acetone then combine this mixture with NG !
I saw a video for this and they said it works !
|
|
|
ecos
Hazard to Others
Posts: 464
Registered: 6-3-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Learning !
|
|
this might help : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2zfw46vFYs
but it is almost the same steps with more explanation !
|
|
|
roXefeller
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 9-9-2013
Location: 13 Colonies
Member Is Offline
Mood: 220 221 whatever it takes
|
|
That sounds like standard nitrocellulose/nitroglycerin gel. This is why you need a solid understanding of things. Most people 'familiar in the art'
would read canned recipes like that and understand there was probably an error of omission. You are lacking that background and take everything as
gospel truth, which can either be benign or disastrous, hence our encouragement to read more before proceeding. Hennig Brand just had something
happen similar on the DDNP thread where he was stating a diameter with a decimal error. Nobody bothered to correct it initially because we understood
the error and didn't find it edifying to the conversation to be pedantic. You on the other had, would have tried to set off picric acid at 0.76mm and
wondered why yellow clouds appear, instead of asking how such an insensitive could have the miniscule critical diameter.
While in some jurisdictions liability could be found against the one publishing information for your harm, common sense dictates that if it is your
hands, lungs, torso, head etc in harms way, you personally have the burden to get it right and read between the lines of "mix Cellulose with hot
acetone then combine this mixture with NG".
As far as diagnosing the OP I have one comment. Cotton is destroyed by sulfuric acid in a similar way as you have described (as far as I have seen
personally). Is it possible that the nitrate salt hasn't completely reacted to HNO3 before you proceed with the reaction?
|
|
|
sarinox
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 21-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I used cotton wool and added it to a mixture of H2SO4/HNO3 with concentrations of 98% & 68% respectively and ratio of 7/3 by volume and I tried
different soaking times but the result was not satisfying I guess some Nitrocellulose might have formed because the resulted substance (after
neutralization and washing steps ) was soluble in acetone yet it appeared the substance don't burn like cellulose nitrate!!!
anyone know the promising method of making NC ???
|
|
|
sarinox
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 21-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
yes I did
|
|
|
sarinox
Hazard to Self
Posts: 79
Registered: 21-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I also used this method but again It didn't worked!!!
|
|
|
DetaDude
Harmless
Posts: 38
Registered: 21-3-2009
Location: Upper left hand U.S., Portland area
Member Is Offline
Mood: Alert
|
|
For sarinox and ecos !
If you guys want to run with the big boy's, you had better do some reading and research on this forum, before asking kewl questions !
If you're serious about playing with energetic materials, (i.e. explosives) then you had better start by stocking up on some good high percentage HNO3
.............say about ninety percent plus purity. For most labs the wimpy 70% stuff won't hack it.
Oh yes read the safety section FIRST !
Genius creates many a great works............Labor alone finishes them!
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
