Hellbat
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 23-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Question about ETN synthesis
Hello guys, I've got a question about the synthesis of ETN.
I found this one in the internet, but I'm a bit confused because they use ubw and pbv mixed. If I take 1 ubw for 1 gram, how many ml of H2SO4 do I have to
use? 18.4? That would be a bit little, wouldn't it?
Or, do you have another synthesis for me? I want to use as little acid as possible for a big amount of erythritol. So, if it would be better to use
the mixed acid method, that would be Ok, too.
I hope you can help me.
Best regards
Hellbat
|
|
|
roXefeller
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 9-9-2013
Location: 13 Colonies
Member Is Offline
Mood: 220 221 whatever it takes
|
|
How much erythritol are you planning to use?
For acid, the volume specified requires a concentration specified. You can look up strength/density tables for each acid to find the grams each mL is
for a concentration. Although you may have to determine this from the specific gravity. Then the grams of pure acid comes from multiplying the
concentration, which is typically a weight fraction unless stated otherwise.
With grams in hand do the stoich to reach the amount of erythritol required. Let us know how much erythritol you want to use and the amount of acid
you have.
Have a good day.
|
|
|
Hellbat
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 23-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well, the concentration is specified on the site: 98%.
But, understand me: If I have got something like:
-1 ubw hydrazine
-2 ubw ammonium chlorate
, I know that I have to the double amount of of NH4CLO4.
But, if it would say something like:
-9 pbv hydrazine
-2 ubw ammonium chlorate
, then I can't do that. I could use 2g of NH4ClO4 and 9L of hydrazine, or only 9ml. Or what do you mean?
I don't understand all words you used, could you please explain it a bit easier?
I plan to start with 15g of erythritol.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
| Quote: | | I plan to start with 15g of erythritol. |
Properly nitrated, you should get about an ounce of material with close to twice the explosive power of TNT . . . ?
That's more than enough to maim or kill when handled improperly!
'Not something to rush into without a complete understanding of the nitration process?
|
|
|
Hellbat
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 23-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Man, that's the energetic materials board! I think everyone here knows the risks. And, I could also divide everything by 2 or 5.
[Edited on 23-2-2014 by Hellbat]
|
|
|
roXefeller
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 9-9-2013
Location: 13 Colonies
Member Is Offline
Mood: 220 221 whatever it takes
|
|
Not everyone here understands ALL the risks. This man (https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=22...) recorded his accident with the SAME material you are attempting, ETN. His isn't
the only accident that has occurred with ETN (https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=16...). This is a subforum for discussing this controversial topic, but it doesn't give
free license to any assertions. In general we are all learning more risks with time, though many are far ahead of the pack. hissingnoise's point was
you don't quite have a strong grasp of the work behind the scenes of a synthesis to start a ETN nitration at the quantity of 15grams.
And given this, we are trying to enforce a rule of the forum not to spoonfeed you enough information for you to go forward and harm yourself. I
understand what you are saying about ubw and pbv, but you should easily understand what I said before you continue with the ETN nitration, it is
simple chemistry arithmetic that is the language of this discipline. I'd love to explain it to you better, as you requested, but since you chose to
ask it on the EM forum I don't want to risk your harm. You're going to need to lookup all the words you don't understand. Without that basis you
aren't going to go forward intelligibly.
|
|
|
Hellbat
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 23-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I don't understand these words in English. I'm actaully a quite experienced chemist, but I can't do these calculations on my own because I don't know
where I have to use excesses. For example, the sulfuric acid should bind the created water, and I don't know how much I need for 1ml of water.
This guy with the accident boiled something, I won't do so.
Edit: Ok, I tried to unterstand a bit of what you said. H2SO4 density is 1.84g/ml so 18.4pbv are 33.86 ubw or how do I have to understand you?
[Edited on 23-2-2014 by Hellbat]
|
|
|
roXefeller
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 9-9-2013
Location: 13 Colonies
Member Is Offline
Mood: 220 221 whatever it takes
|
|
Thank you for looking into the H2SO4. Given what you found, have a look at this link (https://sites.google.com/site/msexplosives/e/picric-acid) at the H2SO4 line and comment with what you think the author is going for.
|
|
|
plante1999
International Hazard
Posts: 1936
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as a hatter
|
|
I normally don't post in the EM sub-forum, but I think I have to.
2g of an energetic material can blow an hand easily, 15g would give 30g of material, which would easily kill. Another consideration is that ETN is far
from a safe secondary and is fairly sensitive. Last but not least, try to find a properly made procedure for dangerous material.
I never asked for this.
|
|
|
Turner
Hazard to Others
Posts: 197
Registered: 2-12-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have heard a story of a ski patrolman being no more than 12 feet from a 2 lb cast pentolite charge detonating in the snow, he kept all limbs, don't
know about his hearing though, not to say blasting caps aren't finger shredders, High Explosives themselves (disregarding shrapnel) are very powerful
in a relatively small radius proximity, but the shock wave loses a lot of energy in a pretty short distance because the detonation is so fast and
sharp.
[Edited on 24-2-2014 by Turner]
|
|
|
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Posts: 2114
Registered: 29-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hellbat, this is not a forum for requesting recipes to explosives. Go read a book. [closed]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
