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underground
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HMX, FOX-7, TKX-50, e.t.c
Does anybody know the list of the explosives that they are more powerful or similar to RDX ?
Like HMX, FOX-7, TKX-50, CL-20 e.t.c. and see with one is possible to manufacture them from an amateur chemist.
[Edited on 8-11-2013 by underground]
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Dany
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Try DPX1 explosive or (E,E)-3,4-bis(oximomethyl)furoxan. all what you need is nitromethane (CH3NO2), NaOH and HCl.
This explosive has been synthesized by Davin G. Piercey and Joerg Stierstorfer in Thomas Klapotke laboratory, Germany.
Below is the copy-past of the abstract of the paper:
"Energetic furoxan (E,E)-3,4-bis(oximomethyl)furoxan (DPX1) was synthesized in 75 % yield, using a literature procedure, from a precursor
readily available in one step from nitromethane. DPX1 was characterized for the first time as an energetic material in terms of calculated performance
(Vdet = 8245 m s−1; Pcj = 29.0 GPa) and measured sensitivity (impact: 10 J;
friction: 192 N; Tdec: 168 °C). DPX1 exhibits a sensitivity less than that of RDX, and a performance significantly higher than
2,4,6-trinitrotoluene (TNT)."
however, you must be careful with this material because it slowly decomposes at room temperature.
Dany.
Attachment: (E,E)-3,4-bis(oximomethyl)furoxan (DPX1).pdf (282kB)
This file has been downloaded 1548 times
[Edited on 8-11-2013 by Dany]
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underground
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What about other explosives close to Vdet of 9000 m/s and above
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Dany
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Check this paper on the synthesis and properties of N-alkylhydrazinium nitroformate.
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/8624/1/IJCT%2...
Dany.
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underground
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Hydrazine is a really toxic material to play with it...
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Praxichys
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There are many compounds that break the 9km/s mark but this is not the only metric that determines "performance."
Aminonitroguanidine nitrate @ 9750m/s calculated
Ammonium dinitroguanidine @ 9055m/s calculated
4,4’-Dinitro-3,3’-diazenofuroxan at 9800m/s calculated
Salts of bis(2,2-dinitroethyl)nitramine
Hydrazinium salt: 9305m/s calculated
Guanidine salt: 9504m/s calculated
Diaminoguanidine salt: 9314m/s calculated
Triaminoguanidine salt: 10004m/s calculated
[Edited on 8-11-2013 by Praxichys]
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malford
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On that note, something that I have intending to research is the question, why is speed at which the detonation wave propagates important at all?
Should not the speed at which the gasses from detonation expand be more important?
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Praxichys
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The speed at which the gases expand is related to their pressure and temperature, which is related to the speed at which the solid/gas transition and
energy release happens (the velocity of detonation).
Also related is density, ΔH, molecular weight of gases produced, and their molar amounts.
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underground
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It really looks very interesting
3,3’-Dinitro-4,4’-azoxyfurazan looks really difficult to made
Ammonium Dinitroguanidine looks really interesting, looks easier to manufacture that other HE's (unfortunately the link for ADNG does not work)
3-amino-1-nitroguanidine nitrate (ANGN) looks also possible to make but it requires hydrazine
has anybody made some of them ?
[Edited on 9-11-2013 by underground]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Multi nitro guanidine ?
Here is the paper for 1,2 - dinitroguanidine.
Im not sure but I think that Nitroguanidine Nitrate exist.
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.16372117.html
And so does Dinitroguanidine nitrate ?
Attachment: phpfMx2S8 (129kB)
This file has been downloaded 997 times
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underground
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Ammonium Dinitroguanidine looks closer to manufacture from an amateur chemist
guanidine nitrate --> nitroguanidine --> dinitroguanidine --> ammonium dinitroguanidine
I do not know if dinitroguanidine nitrate exists and what properties have.
Ammonium Dinitroguanidine looks to be stable at all, but how you can make Ammonium Dinitroguanidine from Dinitroguanidine ?
I also wondering if you can make dinitroguanidine with a common nitration of h2so4/nitrate salt of nitroguanidine.
Guanidine salts looks really interesting and that you can play a lot with them
[Edited on 9-11-2013 by underground]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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I wonder if you used nitronium cation would this happen. Maybe nitration using N2O5 ?
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underground
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It should be amazed if someone with that knowledge was going to inform us
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underground
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After a good read of the PDF were the DubaiAmateurRocketry mentioned above, i saw that dinitroguanidine it is not as easy to make as i though and it
needs some obscure chemicals needed like Oleum e.t.c.
"Synthesis of 1,2-dinitroguanidine from nitroguanidine.
To a mixture of 20 ml of 98% HNO3 and 36 ml of 60% oleum at 010C was added dropwise a solution of 14 g of nitroguanidine in 20 ml of 98% nitric
acid. Then 15 ml of 60% oleum and 2 ml of98% nitric acid was added, the mixture was kept at this temperature for 1 h, and at the same temperature to
the reaction mixture was added 8090 g of ice. The separated precipitate (12 g) was filtered off and washed with trifluoroacetic acid. The filtrate
was extracted with ethyl acetate (520 ml). The extract was washed with water, dried with sodium sulfate, the solvent was distilled off, and the
residue was washed with hexane. Both portions of the product were combined and recrystallized from acetic acid or acetonitrile. Yield of pure
substance of mp 169 was 16 g (80%)."
Also ammonium dinitroguanidine looks unstable and will going to decomposes at room temperature
"Whereas the metal salts of 1,2-dinitroguanidine acquire impurity of dinitrourea salts only at heating, the salts of the nitrogen-containing bases are
far less stable and slowly decompose in water solutions already at room temperature. The least stable is the hydrazinium salt: The rate constants of
1,2-dinitroguanidine hydrolysis in water at 25C in the presence of 1.15 mol l1 of NaOH, NH3, Me2 NH, and 0.05 mol l1 of N2H4 are respectively 0.883
104, 1.52 102, 1.25 102, and 4.48 102 1s1."
To sum up, only 3-amino-1-nitroguanidine nitrate is going to left
Lets see about that.
DubaiAmateurRocketry on the PDF you mentioned earlier, it is said:
"unlike the nitroguanidine the 1,2-dinitroguanidine is relatively strong acid." AND
"The basicity of 1,2-dinitroguanidine is considerably lower than that of nitroguanidine (pKBH+ 0.93 [8] and 0.98 [9] respectively)"
So i doubt if dinitroguanidine nitrate exists, but if even it exists, it is going to be very unstable, even more ammonium dinitroguanidine
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by underground]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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I believe the trinitroguanidine can be prepared In the following method.
Nitroguanidine > acetyl bromide > N2O5 > Trinitroguanidine. I sketched the method for now, I will upload after my dinner when Im free.
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caterpillar
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Quote: Originally posted by Dany  | Try DPX1 explosive or (E,E)-3,4-bis(oximomethyl)furoxan. all what you need is nitromethane (CH3NO2), NaOH and HCl.
This explosive has been synthesized by Davin G. Piercey and Joerg Stierstorfer in Thomas Klapotke laboratory, Germany.
Below is the copy-past of the abstract of the paper:
"Energetic furoxan (E,E)-3,4-bis(oximomethyl)furoxan (DPX1) was synthesized in 75 % yield, using a literature procedure, from a precursor
readily available in one step from nitromethane. DPX1 was characterized for the first time as an energetic material in terms of calculated performance
(Vdet = 8245 m s−1; Pcj = 29.0 GPa) and measured sensitivity (impact: 10 J;
friction: 192 N; Tdec: 168 °C). DPX1 exhibits a sensitivity less than that of RDX, and a performance significantly higher than
2,4,6-trinitrotoluene (TNT)."
however, you must be careful with this material because it slowly decomposes at room temperature.
Dany.
[Edited on 8-11-2013 by Dany] |
Dear Dany, aforementioned paper clearly said, that slowly decomposes the intermediate -nitroacetaldehyde oxime, but not the furoxan. And you forget
about oleum, used for this synthesis.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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Dany
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Dear Caterpillar, thanks for the correction 
Dany.
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underground
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What about keto-RDX, it looks to be 4% more powerful than HMX
The only problem it should be the hydrolysis of hexamine (according to the pdf) as it is going to need polyphosphoric acid and phosphorus pentaoxide
Attachment: Synthesis, characterization and thermal studies of keto-RDX or k-6.pdf (113kB)
This file has been downloaded 2043 times
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by underground]
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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| Quote: Originally posted by underground | What about keto-RDX, it looks to be 4% more powerful than HMX
The only problem it should be the hydrolysis of hexamine (according to the pdf) as it is going to need polyphosphoric acid and phosphorus pentaoxide
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by underground] |
Thats a great find ! I wonder if you can switch all the CH2 to C=O, although less energetic, might serve an clean powerful dense oxidizer.
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caterpillar
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there is a way to do it without phosphorus acid- only usual mixed acid 50:50% Anders Hoveland gave link to this method, and it can be found at this
very forum. Small quote (sorry for unicode)
：
Ｔｏ５０ｍＬｍｉｘｔｕｒｅｏｆｎｉｔᦈ
2;ｉｃａｎｄｓｕｌｆｕｒｉｃａｃｉd （
９８％ ），
ａｓｔｈｅｓａｍｅｏｆｍｅｔｈｏｄＡ
， ｕｒｅａ （ ４．５ｇ ，
０．０７５ｍｏｌ ）
ｗａｓａｄｄｅｄ．Ｈｅｘａｍｉｎｅｄᦇ
3;ｎｉｔｒａｔｅ （ ＨＤＮ ）（ １０ｇ ，
０．０３８ｍｏｌ ）
ｗａｓａｄｄｅｄｔｏｍｉｌｋｙｍｉｘᦈ
4;ｕｒｅａｔｔｅｍｐｅｒａｔｕｒｅ＜５T
51;．Ａｄｄｉｔｉｏｎ
ｏｆＨＤＮｉｓａｍｉｌｄｒｅａｃｔｉᦇ
9;ｎ．ＡｆｔｅｒａｄｄｉｔｉｏｎｏｆＨA
316;Ｎ ， ｔｈｅｒｅａｃ
ｔｉｏｎｍｉｘｔｕｒｅｗａｓａｌｌｏᦈ
7;ｅｄｔｏｗａｒｍ１０℃
ａｎｄｗａｓｓｔｉｒｒｅｄｆｏｒ
１ｈ．Ｔｈｅｒｅａｃｔｉｏｎｗａｓｍᦇ
9;ｎｉｔｏｒｅｄｂｙＴＬＣｍｅｔｈｏｄA
294;Ｆｉｎａｌｌｙ ，
ｔｈｅｒｅａｃｔｉｏｎｍｉｘｔｕｒｅᦈ
7;ａｓｐｏｕｒｅｄｉｎｃｒｕｓｈｅｄｉA
347;ｅ （ ４００ｇ ） ｔｏ
ｗｏｒｋｕｐｔｈｅｐｒｏｄｕｃｔ．ᦅ
2;ｈｅｗｈｉｔｅｐｒｅｃｉｐｉｔａｔｅA
367;ａｓｆｉｌｔｅｒｅｄ ，
ｗａｓｈｅｄａｎｄｄｒｉｅｄｔｏｇｉᦈ
6;ｅ８ｇｃｒｕｄｅｐｒｏｄｕｃｔｔｈａA
364;ｃｏｎｔａｉｎ
ＲＤＸ （ ５５％ ）
ａｎｄＫｅｔｏＲＤＸ （ ４５％ ） ．
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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underground
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Can you give to me more details about that please ? please ?
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caterpillar
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Did you have problems reading the text, which I upload? I extracted it from pdf, this is why it is not very good for reading. Well, I see that I had
to translate it to plain English. 50 ml of mixed acid (HNO3+H2SO4, 50:50%). 4.5 gr of urea was slowly added into this mix with stirring and cooling.
After addition mix was kept at 0 Celsius for 30 minutes. Then hexamine dinitrate (10 gr) was added. Temperature was kept at 5 Celsius. Then reaction
mixture was allowed to warm up to 10 C and was stirred for one hour. Finally reaction mix was poured into 400 gr of crushed ice. The white precipitate
was filtered, washed and dried. That's all. I have a solid guess, that replacement of urea with nitrourea is a good idea. And most likely mixed acid
could be replaced by mix of sulfur acid and some nitrate.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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underground
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| Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar | | Did you have problems reading the text, which I upload? I extracted it from pdf, this is why it is not very good for reading. Well, I see that I had
to translate it to plain English. 50 ml of mixed acid (HNO3+H2SO4, 50:50%). 4.5 gr of urea was slowly added into this mix with stirring and cooling.
After addition mix was kept at 0 Celsius for 30 minutes. Then hexamine dinitrate (10 gr) was added. Temperature was kept at 5 Celsius. Then reaction
mixture was allowed to warm up to 10 C and was stirred for one hour. Finally reaction mix was poured into 400 gr of crushed ice. The white precipitate
was filtered, washed and dried. That's all. I have a solid guess, that replacement of urea with nitrourea is a good idea. And most likely mixed acid
could be replaced by mix of sulfur acid and some nitrate. |
What if use just hexamine in case of hexamine dinitrate, as long as hexamine dinitrate it is really really badly toxic!!
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caterpillar
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| Quote: Originally posted by underground |
What if use just hexamine in case of hexamine dinitrate, as long as hexamine dinitrate it is really really badly toxic!! |
Who says that??? BS. Do not eat it and sleep well. As a matter of fact, you can use hexamine instead of its dinitrate. But in such case addition of
hexamine is exothermic process and you must cool reaction vessel. This is why I think, that dinitrate is the best choice. But, if you want to use
hexamine, go ahead. It is named "method A". 65 ml of mixed acid (HNO3+H2SO4, 50:50%). 10 gr of urea was slowly added into this mix with stirring and
cooling. After addition mix was kept at 0 Celsius for 30 minutes. Then hexamine (10 gr) was added in small portions. Temperature was kept below zero-
0- 5 Celsius (this reaction is exothermic!). Then reaction mixture was allowed to warm up to 10 C and was stirred for 35 minutes. Finally reaction mix
was poured into 400 gr of crushed ice. The white precipitate was filtered, washed and dried. I suspect, that mixed acid must be really concentrated.
According to original pdf, two nitro groups must be implemented into urea. This is the problem- preparation of dinitrourea probably requires oleum.
This is why I think, that nitrourea would be better choice.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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underground
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What if you are going to do 2 reaction vessels, with one with you are going to do nitrourea, and to the other one you are going to do HDN, then mix
them together for keto- RDX
By the way, i also believe that adding nitrourea in case of urea surely you are going to have more possibilities to form dinitrourea
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