dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 148
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hydrazine contamination
Hi,
I'd like to hear your opinion on that, because I like to try out a few things with hydrazine.
How you guys deal with residues after working with hydrazine?
How do you decontaminate your equipment?
Can you rely on the fact that hydrazine is getting destroyed by aerial oxigen over time?
|
|
|
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination! 
|
|
If you are using a few grams I would just pour it down the drain at high dilution.
The equipment can be rinsed with plenty of water to remove any residues.
It will find something to react with at the sewage farm and turn into nitrogen and water!
|
|
|
weiming1998
National Hazard
Posts: 616
Registered: 13-1-2012
Location: Western Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Amphoteric
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by dangerous amateur  | Hi,
I'd like to hear your opinion on that, because I like to try out a few things with hydrazine.
How you guys deal with residues after working with hydrazine?
How do you decontaminate your equipment?
Can you rely on the fact that hydrazine is getting destroyed by aerial oxigen over time? |
Hydrazine+oxidizing agent= harmless by-products. Bleach and H2O2 are good oxidizing agents to decontaminate the area contaminated with hydrazine.
Aerobic oxidation happens, although a bit slower than using an oxidizing agent.
|
|
|
kristofvagyok
National Hazard
Posts: 659
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Easy, work with it fast(:
Waterfree hydrazine is a bit nasty, but hyrazine-hydrate usually does what you need and if you don't let it stand for too long then there will be no
problem. Also it is a question that what do you use it for.
P.S.: For waterfree hydrazine: The less then 1% water cont. hydrazine should be distilled from metallic sodium or barium freshly.
I have a blog where I post my pictures from my work: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
-Pictures from chemistry, check it out(:
"You can’t become a chemist and expect to live forever." |
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Online
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by kristofvagyok |
P.S.: For waterfree hydrazine: The less then 1% water cont. hydrazine should be distilled from metallic sodium or barium freshly.
|
Although off topic I feel I must add some information to your post as it is potentially dangerous. The following quotation is form:
Audrieth, L. F., Anderson, B. The Chemistry of Hydrazine; John Wiley & Sons 1951
| Quote: | | The use of calcium, metallic sodium, or sodium amide for the removal of the last few percent of water from concentrated hydrazine is certainly not to
be recommended. Both calcium and sodium are effective dehydrating agents. Both of these substances will, however, react with hydrazine to form
extremely explosive metallic hydrazides, especially if they are used in quantities exceeding those needed to react completely with the water that is
to be removed. |
This is not the lone source for this information, just from the closest book at hand. A separate source claims that the addition of metallic sodium
to hydrazine without a dillutant results in an exothermic reaction liberating hydrogen and ammonia gas.
The standard method to prepare anhydrous hydrazine is to distill over sodium hydroxide or barium hydroxide, not the native metals.
With regards to the original question, decon is accomplished as weiming stated using peroxide solution or better yet bleach. For a 100% kill all go
to ceric ammonium nitrate solutions which are very rapid but of course hardly OTC.
|
|
|
DJF90
International Hazard
Posts: 2266
Registered: 15-12-2007
Location: At the bench
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
@Bromic, you're the sort of person I'd trust regards information about such a devil. Older literature states distillation in glass should be avoided
(copper/silver retort??); whats your take on this? Vacuum/inert gas? Any good method for converting hydrazine sulfate to the hydrate reliably and in
good yield?
As an aside, I've seen several patents on the concentration of aqueous hydrazine using azeotropic distillation of the water with xylenes.
|
|
|
Random
International Hazard
Posts: 1120
Registered: 7-5-2010
Location: In ur closet
Member Is Offline
Mood: Energetic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by DJF90 | @Bromic, you're the sort of person I'd trust regards information about such a devil. Older literature states distillation in glass should be avoided
(copper/silver retort??); whats your take on this? Vacuum/inert gas? Any good method for converting hydrazine sulfate to the hydrate reliably and in
good yield?
As an aside, I've seen several patents on the concentration of aqueous hydrazine using azeotropic distillation of the water with xylenes.
|
you are gonna blow up yourself soon
|
|
|
DJF90
International Hazard
Posts: 2266
Registered: 15-12-2007
Location: At the bench
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
And what do you mean by that?
I'm just asking advice on the spur of the moment. Sure, I can go away and diligently research it (and I will at some point before attempting it) but I
figured I'd ask someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about (first hand experience maybe?) first, whilst theres the opportunity to.
|
|
|
Adas
National Hazard
Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction
|
|
Hydrazine is pretty poisonous and carcinogenic, the best solution would be to let small concentrations evaporate outside in the wind or neutralize it
with HCl and flush away.
Rest In Pieces!
|
|
|
kristofvagyok
National Hazard
Posts: 659
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid | | Quote: | | The use of calcium, metallic sodium, or sodium amide for the removal of the last few percent of water from concentrated hydrazine is certainly not to
be recommended. Both calcium and sodium are effective dehydrating agents. Both of these substances will, however, react with hydrazine to form
extremely explosive metallic hydrazides, especially if they are used in quantities exceeding those needed to react completely with the water that is
to be removed. |
|
My info was from a book written by G. N. Nyicsugovszkij - water analysis in chemicals.
He does not mention any explosive hazard of the compounds, but this could be also because this book was written in the good old USSR. Sorry for the
potentially dangerous info.
I have a blog where I post my pictures from my work: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
-Pictures from chemistry, check it out(:
"You can’t become a chemist and expect to live forever." |
|
|
Random
International Hazard
Posts: 1120
Registered: 7-5-2010
Location: In ur closet
Member Is Offline
Mood: Energetic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by DJF90 | And what do you mean by that?
I'm just asking advice on the spur of the moment. Sure, I can go away and diligently research it (and I will at some point before attempting it) but I
figured I'd ask someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about (first hand experience maybe?) first, whilst theres the opportunity to.
|
like a year back, I have been reading about hydrazine and it said that explosion can and sometimes occurs without any reason while distilling it
combine that with toxicity, why do you even want pure hydrazine?
|
|
|
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Adas | | Hydrazine is pretty poisonous and carcinogenic, the best solution would be to let small concentrations evaporate outside in the wind or neutralize it
with HCl and flush away. |
If you are using small quantities of hydrazine, less than 5g, and you wear gloves, avoid breathing the fumes or use a hood, it is perfectly safe.
A lot of things are toxic; copper sulphate and vitamin A for example, but they are a long way from the really poisonous; potassium cyanide and arsenic
salts, and then there are the truly deadly; ricin, palytoxin and dimethyl mercury.
An experienced chemist knows how to handle chemicals and reactions so they pose little or no risk.
MSDS's are by and large written by arse covering paper shufflers.
|
|
|
Random
International Hazard
Posts: 1120
Registered: 7-5-2010
Location: In ur closet
Member Is Offline
Mood: Energetic
|
|
msds are the last place where i would search for quic tips and help in case of accident
|
|
|
dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 148
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi,
If got neither hood nor gas mask, but I hope working outside and upwind will sufice
I think I wont get more than 25% from freebasing my sulfate.
Thanks for your opinion.
|
|
|
Solomon
Hazard to Self
Posts: 82
Registered: 24-6-2013
Location: Ancient Mines
Member Is Offline
Mood: FOR SCIENCE!
|
|
Is this the guy on youtube who died from synthesis of hydrazine? If so, those labels under our names are eerily accurate.
|
|
|
Finnnicus
Hazard to Others
Posts: 342
Registered: 22-3-2013
Member Is Offline
|
|
Oh god Solomon, I hope you're wrong. But, links anyone?
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Solomon | | Is this the guy on youtube who died from synthesis of hydrazine? If so, those labels under our names are eerily accurate. |
I don't think anyone died of synthesizing hydrazine. Hydrazine is toxic, but not that toxic such that it easily kills someone
acutely. Long term effects of exposure to hydrazine (cancer) are of more concern.
Unfortunately, however, someone did die of performing a bad experiment. I do not remember his username anymore, but he died from the effects of
inhaling phosgene. Phosgene is an acute poison.
|
|
|
Marvin
National Hazard
Posts: 995
Registered: 13-10-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Myfanwy (SM) Myfanwy94 (Youtube)
|
|
|
Solomon
Hazard to Self
Posts: 82
Registered: 24-6-2013
Location: Ancient Mines
Member Is Offline
Mood: FOR SCIENCE!
|
|
yes I knew it was phosgene, but I just wasn't sure it was his same name on science madness. Thanks Marvin.
|
|
|
Solomon
Hazard to Self
Posts: 82
Registered: 24-6-2013
Location: Ancient Mines
Member Is Offline
Mood: FOR SCIENCE!
|
|
I found him http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/member.php?action=viewpro... . Still...
those labels under are names are really accurate... like scary accurate. He did produce hydrazine right? I realize he got phosgene as a byproduct.
|
|
|
stefen
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 2-7-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hydrazine contamination
Hydrazine contamination can be prevented by washing the container with sufficient amount of water & using commercial bleach (5% sodium
hypochlorite). Add sufficient bleach until all bubbling action ceases.
Referrence: http://chemistry.tutorcircle.com/inorganic-chemistry/nitroge...
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
He might have made hydrazine once, but not in the same experiment which produced phosgene. Hydrazine and phosgene cannot coexist in the same pot, they
will react. I cannot imagine any reaction which produces phosgene and hydrazine at the same time.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
