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Cou
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Want to open a science store
When my grandfather dies we will get $100,000 (not to be insensitive, but i can't feel sorry for someone who had a heart attack at 50, if they still
eat corn dogs every day at 82 years old), and we want to make some kind of store or business, so we can be above the average population of "wake up in
the morning, go to work, make an average non-rich income". My brother opened a store so that really inspired me. But it seems all the ideas are taken;
what I want to make is a store that is kind of like those jelly bean dispensers; aisles of big containers filled with different compounds, and
dispense how much you want in a container that you buy. So instead of having 1 oz bottles, it's based on something like $3.00/oz and you weigh it. It
should be a retail, what bothers me about online science stores is the shipping cost and waiting for it to arrive.
The only problem is that there aren't any science stores around here, is it because the police always makes them close down, or simply no one is
interested in going to them? I live in Dallas Texas, the state where you need a license to own an erlenmeyer flask and most people will yell
"TERRORIST, GET AWAY FROM HIM" if you utter "dihydrogen monoxide". So I might want to make it more north. After all, I am inspired by Galaxy Science
and Hobby in wisconson, aka Elemental Scientific. Note that wisconson is at the liberal top of the country. Do you think a science store would work,
or would it be a waste of $100,000 because of police and a conservative population? I have the feeling the only customers would be people trying to
make meth labs, and most kids are too busy playing video games (notice the lack of children in the playground? Disgusts me)
[Edited on 8-6-2013 by Cou]
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Variscite
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I dont think you are going to have much success opening a science store in Texas.
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Cou
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Thats why I wanted to open it more northly. Or inside the urban area, where it is more liberal
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golfpro
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It's not a matter of liberal/conservative little man. Federal regulations cover every state and person, and federal law overrides state law in most
every case, Nice having big ideas but that 100,000 is no way yours whatsoever either at least I would imagine.
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Cou
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Well we really want to make a business or store, so we can be above the average person who just works for average money. I would think it is
liberal/conservative, because in a place like california or the top of the united states, the store would probably be in good business, but in texas,
it would be raided with pitchforks by anti-terrorist white supremists
[Edited on 9-6-2013 by Cou]
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elementcollector1
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Then move to the Northwest, science knows we could use the business over here...
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cyanureeves
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if he's 82 yrs. old then he must've honored his father and mother.....that thy days may be long. there is no way you would be allowed to have people
grab chemicals off shelves like candy.cross contamination would cause an explosion or toxicity.an empty playground is a playground all to
yourself.where i live there is a lake and alot of people have boats yet everytime i go to the lake it is empty. i never owned a boat and always fished
off the banks but it seems like i own a lake.go to the playground.
[Edited on 6-9-2013 by cyanureeves]
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Boron Trioxide
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What you need more than money for starting your store is a plan and motivation; instead of buying land for a store or anything major you should get
good at importing chemicals from China since that is where you are going to need to get them from. Secondly you need to find a market for the
chemicals you import. The money from your grandfather will help you get started but you need motivation and a good idea of what you are doing to start
a successful business.
Final piece of advice don't restrict yourself to hobby chemists, perhaps there is some exotic chemical a lab is looking for they can't find on their
own, if you can find it you will probably start to be on the order form for that lab for the future.
Just my completely unqualified advice
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chemcam
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You are very right about the customer base being mostly drug cooks.. Its too bad about our hobby being looked at how it is. I don't think a
brick-and-mortar store would do very well an online store may be doable, cheaper and wider customer base. What I would do is open a lab that makes a
variety of products for profit and on the weekends have it be open to use by hobbiests for research make it a monthly due or something. I'd join if it
was in the pnw.
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AndersHoveland
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Your potential customer base is probably spread too thin to make an actual storefront economically viable, unfortunately. Amateur chemistry is not as
popular of a hobby as it once use to be. Perhaps this is due to schools and government regulators trying to keep "dangerous" chemicals away from
children, the toy chemistry sets one can buy today are just pathetic.
It would make more sense to start a mail order business, or internet business, to reach customers in the entire country, and this would also have a
lower startup cost.
One way to deter illegal drug manufacturers is to only sell certain chemicals in small quantities as part of a more expensive kit.
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Fantasma4500
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to be honest i dont see you getting success starting a chemistry store in the country infamous for cooks
sickening fact that peoples impulses are so violent and their wanting for such drugs really push away all sense and logic and make people go
completely insane when you mention any chemicals
i think this thread would fit better in societal issues however?
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blogfast25
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Since as in today’s world a bricks and mortar business almost invariably has an internet component, you might as well start from the internet.
This:
“But it seems all the ideas are taken; what I want to make is a store that is kind of like those jelly bean dispensers; aisles of big containers
filled with different compounds, and dispense how much you want in a container that you buy.”
… is a recipe for disaster. Don’t even think about it.
Like any business idea, be prepared for an uphill struggle and a mountain of work before you even open the doors for the first time. I should know,
soon I’ll be entering my third year of business online, selling chems and labwares. Granted, I didn’t have the luxury of $100,000 seed money that
would have made it easier to start up. I’m turning a profit but it’s still only the family’s second income, not first.
Getting it wrong in business is very easy and you pay with your own money for every mistake. Sometimes I try to explain it like this: ‘when I used
to work in the chemical industry, if I needed a pair of scissors I went to the stationary cupboard and got one. And if there weren’t any I’d give
the person responsible a bollocking. Now when I need a pair of scissors I have to go out and buy one, in my own time and with my own money!’
A science store is a hard thing to pull off, you might want to consider another kind of business, $100,000 is a lot to lose…
I’m toying with the idea of renting some decent location shop space, with good warehousing attached and using the shop window to sell related things
like cleaning products, solvents etc. If that part covers at least the lease, then the increased warehousing capacity could make the internet part
(chems and labwares) more profitable.
Quote: Originally posted by Boron Trioxide  | What you need more than money for starting your store is a plan and motivation; instead of buying land for a store or anything major you should get
good at importing chemicals from China since that is where you are going to need to get them from.
Just my completely unqualified advice |
No, not completely unqualified. But on China you’re not entirely correct. If you’re going to sell chemicals in the sub kg format, a lot of Chinese
stuff comes in tonnes and also ends up costing about twice the FOB prices, after you’ve paid transport and various duties. Unless you want to rent a
MASSIVE warehouse and build up stock that lasts for years (not desirable), just buying everything from China isn’t really an option. Instead, each
country does have some very large chemical distributors that allow you to buy at the 25 to 100 kg level. More niche products can indeed be imported
directly from China at the level of 10 – 25 kg.
| Quote: Originally posted by chemcam | | What I would do is open a lab that makes a variety of products for profit and on the weekends have it be open to use by hobbiests for research make it
a monthly due or something. I'd join if it was in the pnw. |
Own production is a nightmare in itself. Niche products maybe, commodities forget it.
Your ‘rent-a-lab’ idea is fraught with problems. Apart from a narrow customer base, allowing total strangers near anything as banal as a Bunsen
burner isn’t smart. And own production in a metropolitan area (where you need to be for the ‘rent-a-lab’ part) is out of the question: at the
mere whiff of a bit of HCl you’ll be hounded out of the neighbourhood.
I don't think that is AT ALL true. The popularisation of science is in full swing and with ever increasing disposable income more and more people can
afford to do some home chemistry.
[Edited on 9-6-2013 by blogfast25]
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chemcam
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
| Quote: Originally posted by chemcam | | What I would do is open a lab that makes a variety of products for profit and on the weekends have it be open to use by hobbiests for research make it
a monthly due or something. I'd join if it was in the pnw. |
Own production is a nightmare in itself. Niche products maybe, commodities forget it.
Your ‘rent-a-lab’ idea is fraught with problems. Apart from a narrow customer base, allowing total strangers near anything as banal as a Bunsen
burner isn’t smart. And own production in a metropolitan area (where you need to be for the ‘rent-a-lab’ part) is out of the question: at the
mere whiff of a bit of HCl you’ll be hounded out of the neighbourhood. |
Lol, my "rent-a-lab" idea was less than one sentence long. I didn't give enough details for it even to be judged. If it was a reality I certainly
wouldn't let just anyone in. It would not be advertised a lot and of course a screening process would be in place. Nobody under 18 and of course a
no-liability contract, hold-harmless or however that works. And also like I said it would only be a weekend thing so customer base wouldn't matter to
me. That would be my time to research so if other people don't show I would be there anyway.
Edit: Forgot to mention the following,
Where I live the industrial part of town is less than a mile from major metropolitan area. And again rent-a-lab would not be main priority I would
only try to help amateurs, I bet a few people on this board would benefit from using a real lab, even you perhaps.
[Edited on 6-9-2013 by chemcam]
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by chemcam | Where I live the industrial part of town is less than a mile from major metropolitan area. And again rent-a-lab would not be main priority I would
only try to help amateurs, I bet a few people on this board would benefit from using a real lab, even you perhaps.
[Edited on 6-9-2013 by chemcam] |
It's true that these are some light industrial estates just outside of towns and that those nearby would not object travelling a few miles if they
were interested in the service. But such a rent-a-lab idea could never be the basis of a sound business plan. A bit of pocket money at best, for quite
a lot of hassle.
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12AX7
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Off-the-cuff ideas...
1. If the idea of meeting people every single day, putting up with their shit (and being rewarded by only a couple of good customers), and maintaining
stock and inventory and accounting, leaves you not quite completely satisfied, then you're in the wrong business. Period. Retail is hard. Doesn't
matter what you're selling: if you aren't good at it, absolutely committed, you stand no chance, whatever the field.
Technical retail is harder, because you can't find employees as easily. Think of all the times you've been to Radio Shack (assuming you've been at
all -- just using it as an example), asked a salesdroid about a product, and been left mystified. Chemistry is harder still. I can just imagine a
poorly educated conversation: "Sorry, we're all out of butanol, but we have something called butyllithium. The database says it has the same number
of squigglies?" Salespeople offering substitutions (on the off chance you're out of something) requires a lot more education in this field. Can you
substitute acetone for THF? For generic solvent use perhaps, but if it's metallorganic, good luck.
2. Regarding the lab part -- maybe you can hitch up with a nearby Makerspace? This is a good idea because you've got some filtering going on. You're
not just another storefront to walk past, you'll have technical people nearby at all times. Makerspaces aren't focused on chemistry these days, but
it might be worth a shot to try -- and if you can get a "thing" going (advertise that your makerspace now offers limited chemical facilities!), it
might catch on elsewhere too, and then you need only ride the growth of that new market. You can easily make it directed towards makers already: if
you're into education, you could do lectures on the chemicals used by the average maker (resins, lubricants, construction materials, you name it!),
and offer them for sale in your shop. Not that you'd really be doing anything, you know, active and fundamental with those products -- just selling
existing products, not the base chemicals, or making your own formulations, or whatever -- but you have to start somewhere, and it has to be useful,
and that's a good way to start. It'll be more expensive, too, but if you show that you are beneficial, people will pay a premium for that as a
service.
3. And it goes without saying, all employees will have to be paid well. If you require chemical engineers (or at least organic dropouts!), you've got
to pay at least near a college salary (or hourly wage). And you've got to factor that into your overhead. First assume you pay all your employees
and responsibilities (infrastructure, accounting, wages, and don't leave yourself out, you have to make money too!), and work backwards to a
predicted sales rate and product pricing scheme. Advertise, do market research, see if you can secure some small industrial customers, maybe there
are some who can't purchase the quantities, or do the imports, on certain chemicals -- so you become a distributor. Maybe those sales (which will
dominate the balance sheets by quantity) can subsidize the small quantity sales (via internet or brick & mortar), or maybe the latter will
necessarily be marked up to compensate.
I think a good example would be United Nuclear. If you can do what they do (maybe without the alien theme, but hey -- if you like, pick a theme, it's
not a bad thing if it works!), and be competitive by price or regionally or whatever, then you're set.
4. Finally, there's always the inevitable question... what if it doesn't work!? Is your $100k truely disposable? Would you rather invest it in a
retirement fund (or some other economic-growth-factor means) than spend it? What avenue benefits you and your potential interests (customers,
investment partners, family -- anyone you wish to consider) the most? Might there be something else on, say, Kickstarter, which you are really
impressed with and would actually rather give to? If you end up spending all that money, and starting the business, and you just can't keep it going,
the numbers just aren't matching up, how much will you spend selling it off, or dismantling it, or going bankrupt?
Tim
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phlogiston
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Your rent-a-lab would perhaps work as a not-for-profit kind of hobby project, but not commercially. You say yourself you would not be interested in
advertising it or growing the user-base. So, that doesn't sound like good investment for your 100k or loads of your time if you intend to get rich as
you say in the topic start post. Its sounds like the chemical equivalent of a makerlab.
Selling chemicals: you would only serve local customers, but us mad-scientists are scattered widely. There are not many of us in any given area. (the
few that live near to you will greatly appreciate it while it lasts though). You may be able to make a business out of selling unusual chemicals that
have a wider applicability and offer a wide range of general chemicals (useful to amateur chemists) in addition. Don't try to stock everything. When
customers order from you, immediately order it from another chemical supplier.
| Quote: | | But it seems all the ideas are taken |
You can't be serious. You really believe nobody will -ever- come up with a totally new idea? Think harder. New succesful businesses open every day.
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston | | You really believe nobody will -ever- come up with a totally new idea? Think harder. New succesful businesses open every day. |
Totally new ideas are useless unless you can protect them legally. Anything new will otherwise be copied (and possibly better) by competition and be
old news in under a year.
'Totally new' ideas aren't needed to get into business either. It's about far, far more than just being 'new'. How many new businesses are actually
based on something 'new'?
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phlogiston
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I don't know if it is even possible to patent a business plan. He just needs a little idea for a small chemistry-related business. He doesn't seem to
be looking to make major advancements in techology or science. So, indeed, It also doesn't need to be new. It is much better to copy a good idea
properly than to work hard on an original but bad idea.
[Edited on 10-6-2013 by phlogiston]
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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papaya
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"When my grandfather dies we will get $100,000"
Oh, really ? Even after he sees you talking that way ? Poor man..
"so we can be above the average population"
Seems you don't have anything to do in this 'average populated' forum, you seem to be too self confident and selfish despite your age, it seems you
sold out last piece of your brains for money..
This is general chemistry forum BTW, and this is your second non-related thread here on the top, I wonder why this should not be at least moved
somewhere else, or do you already feel yourself above-the-others?
[Edited on 10-6-2013 by papaya]
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elementcollector1
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About this business idea - take a page from Elemental-Scientific. They do exactly what you're proposing, and get decent business. Is it enough to keep
them afloat? Probably not. Do they work hard? Hell yes - it's a family business, they have 4 employees who do all of this and that's not nearly
enough. Is it worth the hassle? Who knows.
Of course, you'd have to establish your reputation as a seller first - and this attitude is most certainly not going to improve your customer base.
"Oh, my grandpa is going to die soon, so I get 100k - time to invest it in an extremely risky, short-term scheme instead of honoring the old man's
memory." You even stated you show no empathy for him in your first post, as you "can't feel sorry for someone who had a heart attack at 50, if they
still eat corn dogs every day at 82 years old". What would he think if he saw that post? Would he still want to give you $100k? I don't think so.
You need to learn how to be a better chemist, but you also need to learn how to be a better human being. Respect your elders, pride cometh before a
fall, and all that.
Papaya's right - given the focus on where to put this theoretical 'store' that's not Texas, shouldn't this be in Legal and Societal Issues?
Oh, and about that 'jelly-bean dispenser' idea - it would be the best thing ever for us, but imagine how people would misuse it. The red P and iodine
would be emptied every half hour, no matter how big you made the dispenser. I could see it working if you programmed it to dispense known quantities,
e.g. 1g, 5g, 10g or even 1mol options, but you would also have to put in some kind of security, so it'd be more like an ATM than a jelly-bean
dispenser.
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
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blogfast25
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They do this 'rent-a-lab' thing? Well, rather them than me! 
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elementcollector1
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Wait, no. I meant the 'chemical dispensary' thing. Admittedly, the 'rent-a-lab' thing would be awesome, but I can already pop down to the high school
and use their fume hood.
Aargh - such good ideas, so hard to implement correctly!
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chemcam
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Nobody is referring to the rent-a-lab.
But, you are completely misunderstanding my idea, the rent-a-lab would not be the sole purpose of the business plan nor would it even be a profitable
area, what I am saying is if I started a lab either to synthesize compounds for profit or some mundane product I would like to allow fellow amateur
chemists the opportunity to use the equipment for a small fee after they have been screened. Not daily, perhaps a weekend ordeal or possibly just
monthly I don't know, this was only a thought not a proposition. I have no idea why you are so opposed to this, there are not enough details to be so
critical.
| Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1 | Wait, no. I meant the 'chemical dispensary' thing. Admittedly, the 'rent-a-lab' thing would be awesome, but I can already pop down to the high school
and use their fume hood.
Aargh - such good ideas, so hard to implement correctly! |
I am not talking about using a fume-hood every home chemists should have one of those already, this would be a well stocked laboratory full of
expensive equipment that a simple high-school would not have. Equipment for analyzing compounds, GC-MS, maybe a rotovap, major equipment like so.
[Edited on 6-10-2013 by chemcam]
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elementcollector1
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I didn't see the 'screening' part, and how would you even do that - what are the criteria? Also, do you ship the required equipment to them if they
live across the country, or is this local-only?
I can see this working well, but implementation is going to be tough - there are plenty who would go out of their way to misuse/abuse the system.
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
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chemcam
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| Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1 | I didn't see the 'screening' part, and how would you even do that - what are the criteria? Also, do you ship the required equipment to them if they
live across the country, or is this local-only?
I can see this working well, but implementation is going to be tough - there are plenty who would go out of their way to misuse/abuse the system.
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This was only meant to be a simple thought but I suppose ill take it further. It will be local only for the time being Washington/Oregon/Idaho area.
No equipment leaves the lab but chemicals can be sold/traded but also logged. Photo ID required for registration. The only advertisement would be
word-of-mouth and this forum. Anyone is allowed to apply but not all will gain entry.
I would screen by a general knowledge test focusing on safety and no charges related to manufacture of methamphetamine unless I think that the
applicant has changed his/her ways. I believe in second chances for criminals but then the screening would be admittedly tougher for them.
Before allowed access you must sign a hold-harmless waiver, you are responsible for own actions, as in if you are injured there are no lawsuits or if
you do something illegal it's your ass.
How would somebody abuse this? When the lab is open for use I would of course be there. I know what to look for in shady people.
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