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Manifest
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Is this what Hydrogen smells like?
Well, a minute ago I was bored and I decided to add aluminium to Sodium Hydroxide and that shit started fizzing, the usual.
But then I got this whiff of what smelled like ammonia and I had to put it outside.
Any ideas what this might be? Or is this what it should smell like?
[Edited on 23-3-2013 by Manifest]
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Fantasma4500
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well sodium hydroxide apparently have a very strange smell tho i usually thought it didnt have any smell at all.. kinda soft smell
dont know why you describe this smell as ammonia? perhaps its not pure and mixed with weak ammonia which is then released when its heated?
hydrogen is odorless afaik.. industrially gasses have added i believe ... methylenesulfide? methylene and sulfur somehow..
you could make some hydrogen in a bottleby HCl + Al (dilute HCl)
then lead the gas you get from that through the bottom of a bottle with water in, then you squeeze out the air before you start the reaction in the
other bottle, when the bottle is then filled, the gas (including HCl) will have gone through the water and collected the HCl gas, where you then have
a small amount oh H2O water vapour and theoretically pure hydrogen.. (:
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Adas
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Sodium hydroxide does not have any smell, it just irritates your mucous. The ammonia smell is probably an impurity.
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Mixell
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The smell is the irritation of your mucous membrane by an aerosol of NaOH created by the escaping gas.
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Fantasma4500
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no offense guys.. but it does have a smell! a very soft smell.. you might have smelled it with soapbars before..
i can say this because:
when i dissolve NaOH pure in water i get this smell, even without reacting anything else with the solution
also made KOH from K2CO3 and Ca(OH)2, when the KOH is produced you can clearly smell a difference.. its not like youre drowning in the smell, tho..
that might be why you havent really noticed it yet.. (; but it is there, the smell increases as the temperature of the solution does.. or well thats
what i remember..
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Manifest
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Quote: Originally posted by Mixell  | | The smell is the irritation of your mucous membrane by an aerosol of NaOH created by the escaping gas. |
So you're saying that the escaping gas pushed a layer of Sodium Hydroxide into the air?
I think that's what you're saying, if so I would like to add that I was a couple of feet away and I still smelt it.
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Mixell
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Not a layer, tiny droplets of sodium hydroxide solution. They are dispersed quite effectively, so it's not a wonder you were able to sense it from a
few feet away.
I never heard that sodium hydroxide has a smell, and the dissolution of sodium hydroxide in water might release some aerosol to the air too (in the
process of shaking or steering).
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Manifest
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mixell | Not a layer, tiny droplets of sodium hydroxide solution. They are dispersed quite effectively, so it's not a wonder you were able to sense it from a
few feet away.
I never heard that sodium hydroxide has a smell, and the dissolution of sodium hydroxide in water might release some aerosol to the air too (in the
process of shaking or steering). |
Should I be worried?
Also, if I were to get a pipette and add water drop by drop into a beaker full of Sodium Hydroxide prills could I do that infinitely?
Would the steam come off of it and you could repeat or...
Just curious.
[Edited on 24-3-2013 by Manifest]
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Random
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I remember that soapy smell when I was making NaOH and then dissolving aluminium. Small droplets, dispersion of the solution with the help of hydrogen
bubbles.
It smells just like something that would dissolve your skin.
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Mixell
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No, you shouldn't be worried as long as you're not chronically exposed to it.
It's not steam that's coming off, but aerosol (in this case tiny airborne droplets of water).
Mechanical disturbance of water creates aerosol (which the quantity of is dependent on many factors, such as the intensity and type of mechanical
action, temperature, pressure and so on...), so if you'll be adding water drop by drop to a vessel with some NaOH solution in it, each time a drop
hits the surface, an aerosol will be created (and each time with a lesser concentration of NaOH).
What you described is impossible (among many things due to conservation of energy).
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Adas
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You should not be worried, one I have made a hydrogen balloon (with NaOH + Al) and, after some water-cleaning, I inhaled the gas, but there was still
some NaOH so I lost my taste for a day and became ill (sore throat). Luckily, my lungs survived that quite good. Probably because of CO2 in them.
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m1tanker78
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| Quote: Originally posted by Manifest | Well, a minute ago I was bored and I decided to add aluminium to Sodium Hydroxide and that shit started fizzing, the usual.
But then I got this whiff of what smelled like ammonia and I had to put it outside.
Any ideas what this might be? Or is this what it should smell like?
[Edited on 23-3-2013 by Manifest] |
I almost bet your 'sodium hydroxide' is actually drain cleaner which 9/10 is a blend of ingredients that produces ammonia. If it has aluminum bits in
it, that's your stuff for sure.
Tank
Chemical CURIOSITY KILLED THE CATalyst.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by m1tanker78 |
I almost bet your 'sodium hydroxide' is actually drain cleaner which 9/10 is a blend of ingredients that produces ammonia. If it has aluminum bits in
it, that's your stuff for sure.
Tank |
Aluminium wouldn't produce any ammonia. Ammonia in strongly alkaline solids would be caused by ammonium salts in the product. I can't for the life of
me imagine why a producer would want them there: it creates a nasty smelling product and ammonia fulfils no useful purpose at the point of use of the
product.
I think someone is getting their olfactory nodules (or whatever they are) crossed. I've heard countless people complain about ammonia when there
wasn't even a whiff of it about.
[Edited on 24-3-2013 by blogfast25]
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Endimion17
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Hydrogen has no smell. Solid sodium hydroxide either. Its aerosol has that burning soapy smell which comes from the saponification reaction when the
base reacts with your fatty compounds in your olfactory region.
If you sense any other smell, it's because your "hydrogen" and "sodium hydroxide" is not actually hydrogen and sodium hydroxide, but something impure.
You're not special, you don't have evolved sensory organs, you've just made something impure. Physiologists and chemists have determined and proved ad
nauseam that hydrogen doesn't trigger our nerve endings.
The only thing a human feels when starts breathing hydrogen is the lack of oxygen, which creates a kind of buzz and can turn to euphoria. Oxygen
deprivation with normal CO2 removal does that.
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m1tanker78
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
Aluminium wouldn't produce any ammonia. Ammonia in strongly alkaline solids would be caused by ammonium salts in the product. I can't for the life of
me imagine why a producer would want them there: [...]
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I stand corrected. I thought one of the ingredients in commercial drain opener was ammonium nitrate but a look at the MSDS reveals sodium
nitrate. Still, I also perceive a musty ammonia-like odor when this stuff comes in contact with water. I assume the aluminum bits are added to create
heat and/or turbulence in the drain.
Pure sodium hydroxide has no odor but I suppose others are correct in saying that a fine mist of solution would make one's nose cry out ammonia.
Tank
Chemical CURIOSITY KILLED THE CATalyst.
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by Adas | | You should not be worried, one I have made a hydrogen balloon (with NaOH + Al) and, after some water-cleaning, I inhaled the gas, but there was still
some NaOH so I lost my taste for a day and became ill (sore throat). Luckily, my lungs survived that quite good. Probably because of CO2 in them.
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damnit, i was actually today thinking about inhaling hydrogen gas to have same effect as helium.. thought i would need to use hydroxide and aluminium
as HCl evaporates and well just isnt that great..
perhaps if the hydrogen / NaOH would be lead through a water bottle where the pure gas could be collected, or just let the balloon the gas would be
collected in was allowed to cool? perhaps a filter of cloth or something similar?
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Bot0nist
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A water trap with a bubble stone should eliminate almost all traces of NaOH from the gas. A nicely chilled condenser may work as well, by removing the
water droplets/vapor, leaving nothing to carry the caustic aresol over.
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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blogfast25
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It appears it can cause some turbulence in the brain too. 
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Endimion17
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | | A water trap with a bubble stone should eliminate almost all traces of NaOH from the gas. A nicely chilled condenser may work as well, by removing the
water droplets/vapor, leaving nothing to carry the caustic aresol over. |
Don't forget that if one uses technical grade zinc that always contains arsenic, arsine is produced, too.
Its solubility in water is poor, so it would just slide into one's lungs. What a convenient way to poison yourself. 
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Manifest
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Thanks for the answer and btw the Drain Cleaner states, 'at least 90% sodium hydroxide content'
On that other topic, would the exothermic reaction not cause the water to evaporate?
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Adas
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | | A water trap with a bubble stone should eliminate almost all traces of NaOH from the gas. A nicely chilled condenser may work as well, by removing the
water droplets/vapor, leaving nothing to carry the caustic aresol over. |
No, you would have to let the hydrogen stand above some vinegar to neutralize all NaOH. Inhaling vinegar is much better than NaOH.
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by Adas | | Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | | A water trap with a bubble stone should eliminate almost all traces of NaOH from the gas. A nicely chilled condenser may work as well, by removing the
water droplets/vapor, leaving nothing to carry the caustic aresol over. |
No, you would have to let the hydrogen stand above some vinegar to neutralize all NaOH. Inhaling vinegar is much better than NaOH.
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mind=blown
didnt think about neutralizing it by acid vapour.. and i even do that all the time... damn...
a few drops of vinegar in a balloon should be enough..
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LanthanumK
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The Drano powder that I recently purchased contained sodium nitrate. I read that this reacts with some of the produced hydrogen to make ammonia,
thereby reducing the risk of fire (and creating a cleaning product in the process.) If you have some sodium nitrate impurity in your sodium hydroxide,
it may be undergoing this reaction.
hibernating...
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Endimion17
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No, they most certainly wouldn't. Please don't do stupid things such as this.
First of all, hydrogen needs to be bubbled through the weak acid, second, there might be arsine/phosphine in it, third - there's a chance you
could blow your lungs out. It wouldn't be the first time such thing has occured, and it's an ugly way to die.
Don't race for the Darwin award.
[Edited on 25-3-2013 by Endimion17]
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by LanthanumK | | The Drano powder that I recently purchased contained sodium nitrate. I read that this reacts with some of the produced hydrogen to make ammonia, [...]
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You read wrongly or someone was telling porkies. To reduce nitrates to ammonia requires a hat trick.
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