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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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Scrapheap Challenge (industrial scavenging)
I know that other forum members are afficionados of industrial scavenging so thought I would post some of my recent acquisitions and findings.
I recently made the decision to convert my home furnace from electric to natural gas. Like a true scavenger I was waiting like a vulture as the HVAC
technician struggled out from under my house with the cut up old furnace. I was delighted to see that he had not damaged any of the 5 ea 5000W -220V
heating elements. Next time he popped out of the hole he had an undamaged air handler (squirrel cage, belt driven blower) which I again quickly
scarfed. As I was getting a new air conditioner at the same time I enquired about using the old compressor as a vacuum pump. But we both agreed that
this would not likely work as it needs the coolant carried oil as lubricant. Perhaps I should have grabbed the expansion and compression coils but
they had their designs on those for copper salvage, which may have been part of the bid. I then salvaged the old thermostat which I knew at least had
some mercury in it. I next will be changing out my hot water heater. On this I will be looking for heating elements and sacrifiical anodes.
I conclude that an HVAC boneyard would be a rich source of industrial size piping and equipment for the home tinkerer/mad scientist.
EbC: Title
[Edited on 26-9-2005 by chemoleo]
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Saerynide
National Hazard
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Dumpster diving in the school recycling stuff got me a 12v lead acid battery 
It was so heavy to walk home with 
Edit: I havent figured out how to charge it without risking it exploding 
[Edited on 28-3-2004 by Saerynide]
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Organikum
resurrected
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Mood: frustrated
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12V lead-acid battery? A car-battery charger should be fine or if you dont have one, almost any DC source with 14V to15V should do the trick. Check
the battery if it is still filled with water/acid and refill so necessary (and possible).
Explosion is VERY unprobable as long as you dont connect the battery to an extreme strong electricity source - wall outlet directly or such nonsense.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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battery charging
My understanding of the hazard with battery charging is the accumulation of hydrogen in the vicinity of a spark source. I charge my car batteries all
the time with a battery charger as it seems someone is always leaving a dome light on or a door unclosed. I think modern car batteries are sealed and
must have a hydrogen recombiner to make water out of the generated hydrogen as you don't have to check liquid level anymore. And car batteries
are necessarily under constant charging by the aleternator. Does anyone know - am I right on this?
The old style unsealed batteries vented the H2 and you had to be careful when charging them that the gas didn't accumulate and then get set off
by a spark as you were connecting a terminal. This explosion would then spray the hapless victim with sulfuric acid blinding same.
If there is a H2 recombiner there must be a catalyst, right? Ah - more opportunities for scavenging!
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Saerynide
National Hazard
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My battery is sealed, so Im scared too high of a voltage would electrolyze the water in it, then build up gas pressure and explode/spray H2SO4 
I did some reading on sealed batteries, and IIRC, theres a narrow range of voltages and currents that would be just enough to not break up the water,
and it is in that range that you charge at. Very difficult indeed without a charger
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Ithacacian
Harmless
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compressor as vacuum pump
Know its been a while on this thread however...
Magpie:
Air conditioner compressors do indeed rely on the freon/oil mix for lubrication and cooling, however, you can run one hot for upwards of an hour
without incurring permanent damage. And most have a circuit on the top of the compressor which prevent you from turning it back on if its too hot. As
for lubrication, you can get refrigerator compressor oil at a HVAC place for a few dollars. Just put it in very slowly at the intake drop by drop for
a few minutes while the things running with a collection cup at the output before doing what you want.
These have reasonably good vacuum characteristics, depending on the BTU rating. I believe the 8000 BTU model I had occasion to use had the same cu
ft./min ability as a small Sargent Welch. In good operating condition at least 50 mm Hg and possibly an order of magnitude less. Refrigeration
service pumps and freezer compressors are better though because they don't have the cooling problems and may go lower.
Anyhow, I used an 8000 BTU window AC compressor successfully in a CO2 laser, and it got down low enough - about 50 mm Hg give or take is the threshold
for success.
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HRH_Prince_Charles
Hazard to Self
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For all things fridge compressor
try this excellent site:
http://www.belljar.net/refrig.htm
Loather of monstrous carbuncles, lover of organic melons and servant girls.
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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
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Just one more note on the recycling of lead batteries: I had a go at it once, cus I didn't want to buy a fresh one.
I took out the PbO2/PbSO4 etc covered lead plates and physically scraped them off, until the lead underneath would shine out. Then refueled it with
H2SO4 (32%), and it worked fine thereafter. I don't know how well it worked by comparsion to a new one though - but it worked.
Also, I was thinking lately that it should be easy to get rid of the PbO2/PbSO4 with NaOH conc - as soluble lead salts are formed. That way there is
no need taking the plates out.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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old computers
I recently bought a new computer so now have the old one stored in my garage in 2 large boxes. I need the space for my lab equipment so am thinking
of giving the computer away. Another possibility is to salvage it for certain components and then pitch the remainder.
I would like to query the forum on what components would likely be useful for chemistry and why. It is a Gateway 2000 desktop of 1997 vintage.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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axehandle
Free Radical
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The PSU would be very good for electrochemical procedures. Some hotwiring of it is necessary, I can provide a small howto if it's needed.
My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35
\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
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vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
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Computer PSU are the holy grail for electrolysis: high currents at low voltages.
It has also once crossed my mind to salvage harddisk motors for high speed magnetic stirring...
And ofcourse the fans...
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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JohnWW
International Hazard
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If it is your only other computer, you should keep it for emergency use in case your new computer breaks down. At the same time, you could link it to
the new computer to back up your data on. As a precaution against a house fire, you should keep the old computer in your garage for data backup
purposes.
John W.
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Organikum
resurrected
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Not the harddisk motors but the neodym magnets in the hdd´s are the hit.
Dont remove them from the base-plates, as they need those for full power. The plates also shield the backspace from magnetism.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
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Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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Thanks for the replies. I think I'm going to pop the hood and see what I can find in my CPU.
What about the CRT - any uses for that? I recall threads on "flyback transformers," but IIRC the neon sign transformers are better for high
voltage arcs.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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neutrino
International Hazard
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You might be able to salvage some lanthanides from the phosphors, but there really isn't too much point in destroying a perfectly good monitor
for those. ebay the monitor. As for the tower... blow it up or ligt it on fire and watch with satisfaction as the gateway finally gets what's
coming to it.
Edit:
Almost forgot: if you don't want to hassle w/shipping the thing to the winning bidder, donate it to charity as a tax writeoff.
[Edited on 21-9-2004 by neutrino]
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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Gateway tower slavaged
Ok, here's what I salvaged from my old Gateway CPU:
1 ea 140W DC power supply; this I hope (w/axehandle's help) to use for electrolysis
2 very small disk drive motors
2 LED's w/wiring
1 tiny laser from the CD drive
1 neodymium magnet w/plates from the hard drive
I threw away alot of silicon (chips). We need to come up with some uses for doped Si.
Personal computers were unkown when I was in school so I have no formal education in computer components or operation. So this salvaging operation is
helping.
Organikum that is one sombitchin strong magnet!
Maggie
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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MadHatter
International Hazard
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Computers
Magpie, when I started my sophomore year in high school(1973) the 1st
mini-computers were out. I learned to program in BASIC+ on a DEC PDP-11/04.
Hell, cellphones have more memory than that behemoth did ! My 1st PC
was a Pentium MMX 166 MHz machine made by NEC. When the motherboard
finally cooked itself, I stripped out the components and gave them to various
members of my family.
I now have an HP Pavillion 933 MHz which I have upgraded continuously.
I don't need a faster processor for my work.
Upgrades to this system include:
Maxed out memory to 768 MB
2nd harddrive - 120 GB Maxtor(primary drive is 60 GB Maxtor)
Viewsonic PF790 19" CRT monitor
Plextor 708a DVD burner(replaced Samsung SD-612 DVD ROM)
Creative Labs Soundblaster 5.1 Live ! soundcard w/speakers
ATI RADEON 9600 SE graphics cards w/128 MB memory
Hauppauge WinPVR-250 personal video recorder
CyperPower 1500 joule UPS
Nikon Coolpix 5200 5.1 mp camera
Carryovers from the 1st computer are a Canon S300 printer, Microtek
ScanMaker V6upl flatbed scanner, and an Iomega 100 MB zip drive.
It's been expensive but carried out over the course of 3 years. I don't
have any PCI slots left in this computer so if I need more devices I'll
have to get a new PC. Wouldn't be a bad thing though, the newer
processors are more than 4 times as fast as my current model.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
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My big toe tells me this thread is going to end in an Intel vs AMD flamewar
So let's keep this on topic eh?
EDIT: Anyone care to start a AMD vs Intel flamewar in whimsy? 
[Edited on 26-9-2004 by vulture]
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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MadHatter
International Hazard
Posts: 1347
Registered: 9-7-2004
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AMD vs Intel
Vulture, I'll pass on that 1 ! I don't know the 1st thing about the AMD
processor. I like my Intel so I'll go with what I have. Thanks anyway !
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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jimwig
Hazard to Others
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from most recent to the distant past
a working impreller pump (dumpster) 120vac
a laptop computer- works no keyboard response
a ton of electrical equipment - boxes, conduit, devices from a industrial/loft job that was just thrown away afterward.
next day a laptop type scanner USB
another pentium that had been through a fire but works
two guts of pentium 3 - CPU's, some memory and hard drives, cd, no cases
lots of stainless steel tubing and ss valves and vessels - from metal recycler but practically free.
all kinds of bicycle parts
a toster oven
a stainless steel diving "air" tank NICE #3000 psi on this. hydrogenation vessel!!!
a ton of stepper motors, power supplies, and various other scrap from larger IBM equipment including about 20 pounds of magnesium from hard drives.
a real score - 54 brand new speed reducers - industrial models - traded them for $1700 worth of stuff from the junk and recycle yard - a band saw, a
Miller AC/DC welder etc (4 for fure use)
a complete package photo color printer in a dumpter - too heavy to remove so I dismantled and saved the guts. lenses etc.
this goes on and on
many motors, pumps, industrial obsolete machinery including solid state controllers, thermocouple wire, and on and on.
got a bunch of chemicals from a polymer r/d lab that bit the dust. some glass but mostly large sacks of phthalic anhydride, benzoic acid, maleic
anhydride, trimilletic acid, etc. and many smaller chems. same place I bought all their borosilicate glass - two cases with 5mm to 48mm tubing.
another dumpster full of electrical fittings and supplies.
that isn't all but I have run out of memory.
Oh yeah there was that dumpster that was filled with electronics text equipment- Systron Donner stuff, lab power supplies, and ton of electronic
components in sorted plastic draw cases, and fabrication and jig components. must have been a jobber that did sub assemblies.
ANYWHO - if you are traveling somewhere take the time to dve the industrial areas.
bye bye
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Dr.Freemanstein
Hazard to Self
Posts: 61
Registered: 2-7-2005
Location: Cornwall, England
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Scrapheap Challenge
I am currently trying to source certain materials on the cheap, which means I have been cannibalising a lot of stuff to get the materials etc. that I
need. What I have not yet encountered a great deal, is Stainless Steel tubing.
Does anyone have any ideas what item(s) I should be looking for to obtain a decent quantity/range of bores???
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bio2
Hazard to Others
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You're not likely to find much SS in the junk but a good source for used tubing is boat handrails.
Check the marine welder/mechanics for a good deal and bring along a tiny magnet.
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IrC
International Hazard
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If you have any companies that process foods such as chicken nearby you will find they have lots of SS tubing and other shapes.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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The chemical process industries (including all types of food processing) use a great deal of stainless steel tubing and piping. It is usually grade
304 but where halide resistance is needed you will often find grade 316 also. When I worked in industry there was always a lot of piping in the
"boneyard." How to get access to it is the real question. They may end up selling it to a scrap metal dealer or even have auctions. But I
suspect much of it is just buried due to liability concerns over contamination. This shouldn't be an issue for food processing piping, however.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Dr.Freemanstein
Hazard to Self
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Thanks guys, you have given me loads of ideas. It just so happens I have several boatyards nearby, and a few food processing factories. I'll
give them a whirl
[Edited on 23-9-2005 by Dr.Freemanstein]
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