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Aristocles
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Location: Kentucky
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Displiceo, for reviving this, but I am new. 
The term "Threshhold" weight/volume is the 'legal' amount or the amount allowed, sans reporting, to be imported/exported or sold domestically
(depending on the chart heading)?
I think I understand but I'm a bit confused by this: "(g) of this section, the following thresholds will apply for the following List I chemicals that
are contained in drug products that are regulated pursuant to Sec. 1300.02(b)(28)(i)(D) of this chapter
(thresholds for retail distributors and distributors required to report under Sec. 1310.03(c) of this part are for a single transaction; the
cumulative threshold provision does not apply. All other distributions are subject to the cumulative threshold provision"
Perhaps everything on the list is reported?
[Edited on 3-11-2007 by Aristocles]
\"This is our purpose: to make as meaningful as possible this life that has been bestowed upon us; to live in such a way that we may be proud of
ourselves; to act in such a way that some part of us lives on.\"
-Spengler
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MadHatter
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Reporting
You can count on it ! I would assume that any List I purchase will be reported.
The seller would probably do it to cover his/her ass !
[Edited on 2007/11/4 by MadHatter]
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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quicksilver
International Hazard
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Is eBay even safe to use in general? Are activities tracked?
That's starting to become a question with powerful validity when we hear about the arrest of a young man specifically from the tracking of his eBay
purchases.
http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070928/NEWS01/70928010
The Nevada youth bought a scale commonly associated with "drug sales" (a common triple beam chemical scale) it "flagged" something / someone in that
fellow's state (or some federal entity; perhaps the flagging is much more intense than first surmised...) & an investigation was initiated. In
this case the young man DID have a gram of methamphetamine when he was interviewed by the authorities and was arrested, etc.
Personally, I don't like eBay's way of doing things; I never had. I have had many friends that have used eBay and a few that bought science related
materials from it. However I would NOT buy anything that could be misconstrued from eBay. It seems that from their perspective, you are guilty until
proven innocent.
I think I may do an experiment in writing scripted web searches and track eBay related arrests for a month and see if there is any true cause for
concern other than a guess. AP wire & Nexus had multiple hits but I didn't check them out. I am aware that it's easy to find an eBay arrest that
has a science related element to it simply by searching most any engine with "eBay, arrest, chemicals" - THAT is not a good sign.
[Edited on 17-11-2007 by quicksilver]
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joeflsts
Hazard to Others
Posts: 226
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| Quote: | Originally posted by quicksilver
Is eBay even safe to use in general? Are activities tracked?
That's starting to become a question with powerful validity when we hear about the arrest of a young man specifically from the tracking of his eBay
purchases.
http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070928/NEWS01/70928010
The Nevada youth bought a scale commonly associated with "drug sales" (a common triple beam chemical scale) it "flagged" something / someone in that
fellow's state (or some federal entity; perhaps the flagging is much more intense than first surmised...) & an investigation was initiated. In
this case the young man DID have a gram of methamphetamine when he was interviewed by the authorities and was arrested, etc.
Personally, I don't like eBay's way of doing things; I never had. I have had many friends that have used eBay and a few that bought science related
materials from it. However I would NOT buy anything that could be misconstrued from eBay. It seems that from their perspective, you are guilty until
proven innocent.
I think I may do an experiment in writing scripted web searches and track eBay related arrests for a month and see if there is any true cause for
concern other than a guess. AP wire & Nexus had multiple hits but I didn't check them out. I am aware that it's easy to find an eBay arrest that
has a science related element to it simply by searching most any engine with "eBay, arrest, chemicals" - THAT is not a good sign.
[Edited on 17-11-2007 by quicksilver] |
I would say that this "1.6 grams of methamphetamine" had a lot more to do with her arrest than the scale. The scale simply allows for more charges.
Face it, if someone makes or sells drugs they are eventually going to get caught. When they get caught the autorities will use every charge legally
available to them. It isn't a winning game.
Joe
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
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Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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From Joe:
| Quote: |
I would say that this "1.6 grams of methamphetamine" had a lot more to do with her arrest than the scale. The scale simply allows for more charges.
Face it, if someone makes or sells drugs they are eventually going to get caught. When they get caught the autorities will use every charge legally
available to them. It isn't a winning game.
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I think you are missing the point here. To me the point is that by simply buying a triple beam balance off eBay you may be investigated.
Now I ask you, isn't that pretty flimsy grounds for investigating someone? I can't even begin to count how many legitimate uses there are for a
triple beam balance.
What's next? "Police investigate 50 year old man for buying coffee filters at Safeway."
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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I wonder if he was simply reported for a scale of he had been buying drug precursors or something that they took notice of on ebay previously?
| Quote: |
The Nevada youth bought a scale commonly associated with "drug sales" (a common triple beam chemical scale) |
What the hell is this? Is a simple scale now drug paraphernalia to the media?
I was curious so I looked at what I could come up with arrests relating to ebay.
(Different guy)
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,D...
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/08/cops-ecstasy-la...
| Quote: |
Morever, he used the address freebasing@hotmail.com for his eBay and PayPal accounts |
 this made me laugh....what a moron
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
From Joe:
| Quote: |
I would say that this "1.6 grams of methamphetamine" had a lot more to do with her arrest than the scale. The scale simply allows for more charges.
Face it, if someone makes or sells drugs they are eventually going to get caught. When they get caught the autorities will use every charge legally
available to them. It isn't a winning game.
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I think you are missing the point here. To me the point is that by simply buying a triple beam balance off eBay you may be investigated.
Now I ask you, isn't that pretty flimsy grounds for investigating someone? I can't even begin to count how many legitimate uses there are for a
triple beam balance.
What's next? "Police investigate 50 year old man for buying coffee filters at Safeway." |
Maybe we are missing each other's point. She wasn't arrested because she had a scale. She was arrested because she had a controlled substance with
the intent to sell it. The scale was icing on the cake.
If you own a scale and are selling meth you can bet they will use it against you.
Joe
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quicksilver
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The concept I am introducing is that eBay "puts it's nose into your business". That fact that the arrest was augmented by the possession of a scale is
of little importance but the fact that eBay made efforts [to produce tracking] of buying behaviour for the authorities; that is reprehensible.
What right does eBay have to make any determination that a scale or for that matter anything will be used in an anti-social manner? Do they "have an
obligation" to report such sales?
With their nanny-state mentality firmly guiding them, eBay makes determinations for the public welfare....what a crock or shit! But more importantly,
how dangerous this can be for the truly innocent that (on paper) looks to be nefarious.
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joeflsts
Hazard to Others
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| Quote: | Originally posted by quicksilver
The concept I am introducing is that eBay "puts it's nose into your business". That fact that the arrest was augmented by the possession of a scale is
of little importance but the fact that eBay made efforts [to produce tracking] of buying behaviour for the authorities; that is reprehensible.
What right does eBay have to make any determination that a scale or for that matter anything will be used in an anti-social manner? Do they "have an
obligation" to report such sales?
With their nanny-state mentality firmly guiding them, eBay makes determinations for the public welfare....what a crock or shit! But more importantly,
how dangerous this can be for the truly innocent that (on paper) looks to be nefarious. |
I have read the article twice and see no reference to ebay. Is there another article related to this story?
Joe
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quicksilver
International Hazard
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I apologize, there was another earlier article listed in the Nevada Appeal that spoke of the sale being from eBay. Unfortunately I referenced the
later article in the OP where eBay is not listed, etc.
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MadHatter
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Scale
It doesn't matter who did the ratting. The fact is triple-beam scales are common in the
drug trade. I can buy one OTC without drawing suspicion but the nosy nanny, we
know as eBay is eager to please the LEOs.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
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Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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So, how does someone who wants to make soap or cosmetics buy a scale off eBay without getting investigated by the police?
If certain items are offensive to the employees of ebay why don't they just forbid their sale? By allowing sale then informing LE of the identity of
the buyer it seems as if eBay is attempting "entrapment."
It is very strange to me that buying a triple beam balance is adequate justification for a judge to issue a search warrant.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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undead_alchemist
Hazard to Others
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Well it could be that the seller was a LEO.
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quicksilver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
If certain items are offensive to the employees of ebay why don't they just forbid their sale? By allowing sale then informing LE of the identity of
the buyer it seems as if eBay is attempting "entrapment." |
In point of fact they have done both & continue to do so. I have a feeling that people will start to be turned off to eBay as time goes on. I only
wish I had at my finger tips the things which have been "banned" by that firm. I'm pretty sure that would be an informative list.
The question of whether that is entrapment in the legal sense is a damn good one.
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
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Banned by ebay
htt p://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html
It has been a few years since I bothered with ebay, and the list has grown since I last looked.
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-jeffB
Hazard to Others
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chemrox
let's have a little perspective; having a user name "freebasing@hotmail.com" and spending 2500 on safrole is a little over the top ...
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I came here to say this. Specifically, from the article:
In July 2006, Dubois used the PayPal account freebasing@hotmail.com to buy vacuum pumps, glass beakers, flasks and
chemicals.
Golly, do you suppose "methmaker@hotmail.com" and "pleasebustme@hotmail.com" were already taken?
| Quote: | | I don't see a way to avoid being on various lists if you want to do anything the least bit complicated .. carbon tet is a CA precursor for example and
P is awfully useful at times .. I like to use a little I2 to start Grignards .. |
Well, you're clearly with the terrorists. I mean, what on Earth are Grignard reactions used for, other than making WMDs and dangerous drugs?
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LoKi
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intersting ebay arrest case at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0428062dea1.html.
rather humerous really.
Once when I was bored I searched for sassafrass oil, looked at the people who were buying from the seller of the oil (which by the way was said to be
synthetic on the product description) and in under a minute found someone with a numbered ebay ID whose entire buying history was a shopping list for
an X lab. Didn't follow up to see if his account remained active, but it was easy for me to find someone doing dirty deeds, it would be even easier
for ebay, yet he had been working on his lab for quite some time and aparently remained undetected so its hard to believe ebay makes a huge effort to
bust these guys
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quicksilver
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Ebay plays BOTH sides of the coin with profit first. Don't expect any effort on their part to protect your privacy. It's not in their bast interest
nor is it something they have any stake in. aside from that Ebay believes in volume and low maintenance. That means the less they have to work the
better. Interdiction from the constabulary makes work for them that yields no profits.
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MagicJigPipe
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It's true. All it has to do with is money and making sure they can keep on collecting more money. They will do the least possible as long as those
two goals are realized. That's true of almost every corporation in the US if not the world.
If it's profitable (or they think not doing so will cause them to risk losing money) to work with LE then they will do whatever LE tells them to do.
Like mentioned above, they will make the choice that ends in more profit or protection 100% of the time and if that choice makes it look like they are
protecting the public then, even better for them.
Money, money and more money. That's the bottom line. Even in government (especially US).
On a lighter note. Let's say two people commit the same crime in the US. One person is rich and the other very poor. Who do you think is more
likely to be punished more severly (for various reasons of course)? IMO that is not justice.
Our system of government tries to reduce this injustice by providing a public defender to poor people. Anyone who has ever had to use a public
defender knows what I'm talking about when I say, "they are usually complete morons. Just useless." You might as well represent yourself. You know
how they say, "A person who represents himself has a fool for a client"? I think a person who allows a public defender to represent them is more
foolish than someone who represents themselves. I know I certainly would have been better off representing myself when I went to court a long time
ago over all that bullshit.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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zed
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Me, I'm not a chemical buyer......But, I have more or less monitored chemical availability on e-bay. And, not much is offered anymore. What is still
out there, seems to have gone way up in price.
So, you haven't actually purchased chemicals on e-bay? So what? Your browsing is being tracked. If a government agency asks e-bay for an
inventory of every item you have ever browsed......There is a reasonable chance e-bay will have the records, and a 100% chance they will hand over
whatever they have.
Aside from their anti-chemistry bias, E-bay has become incredibly sissy-fied in other ways. Nowadays, they have hundreds of rules about what you can
and cannot, buy and sell.
No guns, no human body parts, no Nazi stuff, no porn, no large animal skulls........The list goes on, and on, and on.
Additionally, they now have announced, that they will no longer allow payment by cash/check/money order. You must use PayPal, a credit card, or some
similar means of payment. All very trace-able
If a feller was a little paranoid, well.....He might get to thinkin' we're heading in the direction of becoming some kind of "Orwell-ian" police
state.
Make that.....Corporate "Orwell-ian" police state. Sounds even better.
[Edited on 30-9-2008 by zed]
[Edited on 30-9-2008 by zed]
[Edited on 30-9-2008 by zed]
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Panache
International Hazard
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Why would purchasing 1500L of acetone warrant being on the list. The social cycle is indeed moving from this conservative phase we have experienced
this decade and social progressiveness will be popularized again over the next 10-15 years before the 30year cycle comes full circle. Its all so
predictable it tedious.
I have a new technique for describing the hobby now and its appears to strike a popular chord with the ignorant. I simply compare the hobby to the
same activity undertaken by 'aristocratic gentlemen of means' of centuries past and explain this is how science grew in the early phases. By
connecting it with a time and romanticism before terrorism and junkies and bling people seem to not even imagine these things. I always take time to
explain that science is actually a method of thinking, that ones needs to practice to improve.
I have been bothered for years by my inability to affect the trend in social thinking. I just don't have the placard waving, letter writing gene but i
like to comment and complain. It has pleased me now to think that if we are to change this demonisation of the art it will be effective to go one
individual at a time as one feels comfortable, people are tired of fear i believe and like a rational alternative, jut don't order 1500L of acetone or
setup an ebay account called 'XTCDLR', i actually saw that as a number plate on a car in the 90's, i guess the transit authority didn't catch on
immediately.
[Edited on 12-18-2008 by Polverone]
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
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I've done some editing and removed a few posts as this thread was veering into religious discussion and the War on Drugs. Please keep it on-topic from
here on out.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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cal
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Quote: Originally posted by Pyridinium  | http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0428062dea1.html
Looks to me as though Carlos Legrand was making something he shouldn't have been. I'm going to assume it was the safrole and the tablet press that
got the authorities on him, but the thing that bothers me is that they listed several innocuous things on his arrest warrant as "used in the
manufacture of MDMA". A melting point apparatus, MnO2, a rotavap, and a few other things that any [legitimate] lab would almost certainly have.
The oxygen in the air and the water from the faucet could also be "used in the manufacture of" drugs or whatever.
So, despite the fact that many of us order glassware etc on ebay and use it for legitimate purposes, there is always the worry that someone will "get
the wrong idea" when we buy distilling apparati, melting point apparati, thermometers, MnO2, etc.
That said, I don't plan to stop using ebay. Nor do I plan to stop being a chemist just because someone, who knows next to nothing about chemistry,
has decided that my lab equipment could "potentially" be used to make drugs.
I think I know what some of you are worried about : if they look around in your lab and can't find any drug residue, they'll fudge the data. If you
know what I mean. Whether that will actually happen or not seems to be a hotly debated area.
I know an analytical chemist who runs a certified testing lab. He processes samples from all over the state. He even gets work from 3-letter
agencies. The authorities STILL came to his place to see what he was doing "with all these solvents".
Truly I say to you, something is wrong with this picture. |
It still goes to the heart of the matter, do not order anything that is controlled or watched. The pill press item is on the DEA watch list even
though it was on eBay. That gave them probable cause to get a warrant for his purchase records.
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ScienceSquirrel
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Thread Pruned
3-3-2012 at 15:29 |
grndpndr
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| Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter | It doesn't matter who did the ratting. The fact is triple-beam scales are common in the
drug trade. I can buy one OTC without drawing suspicion but the nosy nanny, we
know as eBay is eager to please the LEOs. |
Since when does buying a triple beam scale with a multitude of legitamite uses warrant an investigation?
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GreenD
National Hazard
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Mood: Not really high anymore
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| Quote: Originally posted by evil_lurker | | I've ordered tons of crap off of ebay with no problems... just stay the heck away from the iodine and sassafras oil and you should be OK.
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I've order iodine (30mg) ... no knocks on the door.
I ordered it with 30mL of ammonium hydroxide too! 
ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
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