Adas
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CuCl and nitrous oxide complex?
Hello SM,
I found this link: CuCl and AgCl-N2O complexes
I am asking, is this possible at normal conditions? I think the ClCuNNO would be an oxidizer + flame colorant in one substance. Any ideas?
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There's probably a good reason why they are working at 12 to 40 Kelvin.
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AirCowPeaCock
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I bet above that temperature It will oxidize anything, just like fluorine. The partial pressure of the N2O would be very high. And since oxygen is
more electronegitive than chlorine, it may oxidize the Cu to CuO and release Cl2 and N2 gas. But 12-40 K is pretty achievable with liquid helium and
liquid nitrogen (Take the liquid nitrogen and cool it with liquid helium continuously to maintain to 12-40 K), and its surprisingly not too hard to
get, or so Ive heard. I could be an interesting low temperature oxidizer/chlorinator. If you can, try it out? See what its good for.
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Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  | | I bet above that temperature It will oxidize anything, just like fluorine. The partial pressure of the N2O would be very high. And since oxygen is
more electronegitive than chlorine, it may oxidize the Cu to CuO and release Cl2 and N2 gas. But 12-40 K is pretty achievable with liquid helium and
liquid nitrogen (Take the liquid nitrogen and cool it with liquid helium continuously to maintain to 12-40 K), and its surprisingly not too hard to
get, or so Ive heard. I could be an interesting low temperature oxidizer/chlorinator. If you can, try it out? See what its good for.
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I doubt it oxidises things much I think it will just fall apart.
Release of Cl2 is implausible given the presence of Cu(I).
Nitogen would be frozen solid over that temperature range so liquid N2 isn't going to help a lot.
They explicitly say they use argon.
Liquid helium, is quite hard to get, and to work with. It's also not cheap. "See what its good for" probably nothing much.
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AirCowPeaCock
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Your right, about the N2. Cl2 release would not be impluasable, but with the formation of Cu(I)O instead of Cu(II)O--that was a mistake, I ment Cu2O
not CuO. It probably falls apart above 40K, but N2O is a powerful oxidizer and free in such close proximity to the Cu(I)Cl it might oxidize a small
amount (say 5% or less), making it not particularly useful, but still interesting.
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There's Cu(I) present already. It would reduce any chlorine produced.
Also N2O isn't that fast an oxidiser (though it's powerful enough).
At low temperatures it's unlikely to do a lot.
After all, it won't do it at room temperature.
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AirCowPeaCock
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But if it comes from a crystal lattice inside inside Cu(I)Cl it will have millions upon millions of times more surface area, and it doesn't
necessarily mean it breaks down at 40K just because they work with it at that temperature, i wouldn't be surprised if they were giving it a 20K leeway
area--although that still doesn't make much difference. If you add a solid chunk of Al to water it wont make any noticeable reaction. But if you put
atomized Al in water....I'm not saying it will, I'm saying it might--and you probably have more experience then i do, based on your 1885 posts.
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Adas
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And what about complex with NO2? It would be probably more stable, because NO2 is a radical. I am not able to try this because I can't generate NO2.
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| Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock | | But if it comes from a crystal lattice inside inside Cu(I)Cl it will have millions upon millions of times more surface area, and it doesn't
necessarily mean it breaks down at 40K just because they work with it at that temperature, i wouldn't be surprised if they were giving it a 20K leeway
area--although that still doesn't make much difference. If you add a solid chunk of Al to water it wont make any noticeable reaction. But if you put
atomized Al in water....I'm not saying it will, I'm saying it might--and you probably have more experience then i do, based on your 1885 posts.
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At that temperature it's a solid.
At room temp it's a gas.
Which would you expect to react faster?
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AirCowPeaCock
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well, the lower temperature would have a negative effect, but the distance between the molecules would have a positive, effect. so there's probably
one or more sweet spots. maybe just before it melts/sublimates and at very high temperatures. Then again many reactions will only have a significant
reaction at higher temps, regardless of surface area and such. If one was to expose N2O to CuCl at room temp and high pressure and room temp, would
if form a protective red Copper(I)oxide barrier?
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In general:
Hot things react faster.
Well mixed things react faster.
Since gases mix well...
But, without doing the experiment it's impossible to say.
" If one was to expose N2O to CuCl at room temp and high pressure and room temp, would if form a protective red Copper(I)oxide barrier? "
I doubt it, but if anything I'd expect a mixture of CuCl2 CuO and N2 as products
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AirCowPeaCock
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Where would the Cl<sup>-</sup> go? it would have to donate its e<sup>-</sup> back to the Cu, forming
Cl<sub>2</sub> gas.
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