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Steve_hi
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i bought some 27-0-0 a 20kg bag for 20$ I mixed 1kg with 500ml of water I filtered it off and put 200ml in the freezer and the rest on the stove top
to boil it down what is the correct procedure to seperate the ammoniun nitrate from this mixture to give the best yield and the least amount of time
doing it? I also got from the same agri supply store a 1 litre bottle of 29% H2O2 food grade for 10$ does this seem like a reasonable price. and they
have sodium hypochlorite 10.8% 5 gallons for 14$
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hissingnoise
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$10 per Lt. for H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> seems high!
The rest is reasonable . . .
AN is 33-0-0 and KNO<sub>3</sub> is 13-0-44.
But what is 27-0-0, Steve?
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Steve_hi
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Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  | $10 per Lt. for H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> seems high!
The rest is reasonable . . .
AN is 33-0-0 and KNO<sub>3</sub> is 13-0-44.
But what is 27-0-0, Steve?
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AN 34-0-0 can no longer be had in canada 27-0-0 is calcium amonnia nitrate I mixed 1kg with 500ml of tap
water bouled and hot filtered it after i cooled it in a water bath and stired almost instanly white crystals started forming my yield was about 500gm
so its roughly 50% now I'm going to buy some K, KLC 0-0-60 is 21$ for 20kg but I can also get KNO3 for 53$ for 20kg but I am not sure how much KNO3 I
would actually get might be cheaper to take the KLC has to be recrystalized anyways.
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Steve_hi
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Yesterday I processed another 5kg of NH4NO3 fertilizer.
After filtering it I am letting most of it evaporate to dryness in a pan, but a good portion of it I put into the freezer and harvested the crystals
until no more crystals would form. I then filtered the remaining liquid and put it into the freezer no more crystals formed but the liquid which is
clear like water doesn't freeze is this because it is ammonia? or something else.
I would also like to know if the crystals from the freezer are more pure than what would be drying in a pan and if so would you think these would be
equivalent to lab grade or reagent grade. Is there a mechanisim for determing the purity of this product?
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Bot0nist
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Recrystallization should yield a purer product than full evaporation as the more soluble impurities should remain in solution. Can you get a melting
point on your KNO<sub>3</sub> to confirm purity?
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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grndpndr
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Unliken Hissingnoise I either live in the sticks or prices are outrageous here,one reason -another.All the prices Steve qouted seemed very fair.
Recall, Im some 3-4 Hr roundtrip to any sizable community.We recently had an organic food store open 25miles away.The cost for 1L of 35% food grade
H2O2 is $25 w/ tax.Purchase online and it doubles w/shipping and $25 hazmat.
Calcium hypochlorite
47% is approx $5 + lb -$30 5lbs.27-0-0 CAN is simply unavailable to the nonfarmer.It seems shameful with the problems aquiring NH4HO3 to metasthetise
it to KNO3.Id quess the CAN is simply adulterated w/limestone?Quite pure HNO3 is still available here from the lb to #50 fert sacks 13.5-0-42 Haifa is
good,Champion
and I believe Yara Krystal K is a good product.I would only buy greenhouse grade or a soluble irrigation grade.KNO3,Calcinit whatever.I believe thats
the problem quicksilver is having with the clay-mica-glue is his Calcinit which he calls CAN perhaps hes referring to another product but insist
NO,but there are several grades of calcinit.My GG yara calcinit is an absolutely clear solution but thus far a real B+tch to metasthetise to
recoverable AN.Perhaps a roundabout route and metasthetise to all Ca(NO3)2 then to AN?
Steve when you put the CAN in solution does some solid material settle? If so I would guess it to be dolomite/limestone
easy to be rid of and harvest the quite pure AN crystals via recrystalization.Some folks here in the US resort to the cold packs which contain AN of
questionable quality, a few oz for Approx$ 1.50 US! thats how paranoid our homeland security has become.off topic but try to get a simple Drivers
License in the states that follow fed quidelines for citizenship!Near Impossible.My 56yr old original BC issued by a Navy Hospital w.state seal
wasnt enough proof of US birth as it didnt state paternity!?When did it become feds buisiness who your parents are/were?
Also demanded were 2 letters with physical address and name on them.Unfortunately we have no home mail delivery and thus no adresses in the smaller
communitys.Way off topic but it took several days and phone calls to state capital( 2returns to DL station and I was one of approx 60-70% to make
multiple trips) t to straighten matters out otherwise my other choice was to attempt to get a copy ofa 56yr old BC from the east coast @ my
expense.30yr resident of this state.Big Brother @ his best.Excuse rant HS-Steve.
Long time Hissingnoise, your well?
As mentioned above a much purer product is available through recrystalization than evaporation .
[Edited on 27-9-2011 by grndpndr]
[Edited on 27-9-2011 by grndpndr]
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Steve_hi
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I did have a heavy residue that settled to the bottom Ive been told that it is calcium carbonate it was easy to just decant the mixture and then
filterit. There was also a scum that floated to the top which I just ladeled out with a soup ladel.
[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2011-09-22 an\1.jpg[/img]
[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2011-09-22 an\2.jpg[/img]
[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2011-09-22 an\3.jpg[/img]
[Edited on 28-9-2011 by Steve_hi]
 
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Luftwaffe
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I recently was able to obtain 50kg of KNO3 fertilizer off craigslist and the bag states it to be 99% KNO3 and contains a bright white powder. I
attempted to make R-Candy from it with no success as combustion of the fuel would cease almoust immediately. I remedied the problem by recrystallizing
some of the fertilizer, the solution was quite brown after I saturated the solution near boiling. After letting the crystals precipitate out I
filtered the crystals and they were used for my r-candy with great success, a sustained burn.
My concern however is the formation of nitrosamines when recrystallizing, I always seem to be light headed after purifying it which I generally
attribute the symptoms to paranoia as I am aware of the compounds carcinogenicy and it is produced in low pH solutions containing amines. I tested the
pH of the solution which was around 6 according to my test strip and I cant smell any signs of ammonia or any fumes coming from the solution for that
matter, just the smell of my heating hotplate(stale smelling). Are the contaminants in your run of the mill relatively pure KNO3 fertilizer capable of
making nitrosamines while doing a recrystallization? This greatly concerns me.
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Steve_hi
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Why dont you do this outside or under a fume hood or at the very least under the range hood of your stove to minimize inhailing any vapours or dust
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Luftwaffe
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I did the experiment in the garage with the door open, but yes I should be conducting experiments outside but my question still stands, can
nitrosamines be produced under these conditions I previously stated? I am aware that nitrates are not capable of reacting with amines to produce
nitrosamines but perhaps the nitrates could be reduced by biological contaminants like what occurs in your mouth/stomach into nitrites which would
produce such a product?
I know these conditions seem absurd but I am just stating a scenario. I know this seems pretty extreme but I'm sure this topic would also concern
others of which have used nitrate fertilizers without hoods in there garage to make simple pyrotechnics for fun. In my mind and through my reasoning
I deem it very unlikely that I have created the conditions neccessary to produce nitrosamines and my symptoms are me just going crazy thinking about
it! 
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Steve_hi
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Quote "I am aware that nitrates are not capable of reacting with amines to produce nitrosamines but perhaps the nitrates could be reduced by
biological contaminants like what occurs in your mouth/stomach into nitrites which would produce such a product?"
In foods, nitrosamines are produced from nitrites and secondary amines, which often occur in the form of proteins. Their formation can occur only
under certain conditions, including strongly acidic conditions such as that of the human stomach. High temperatures, as in frying, can also enhance
the formation of nitrosamines. The presence of nitrosamines may be identified by the Liebermann's reaction.[3] From wickipedia
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Kbonchev
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Npk fertilizer boil
Be cool.
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Kbonchev
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Npk fertilizer boil
Hi guys I did boiled solution npk 8+8+8 fertilizer now what I've got?
Material looks fine crystals with creamy color!?!?
Thanks.
Be cool.
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Texium
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@Kbonchev: Depends on what compounds were used in the fertilizer to provide the nutrients. Does it say anywhere on the package?
It would probably be easier to use fertilizers that don't contain such a wide distribution of compounds. Much easier to separate that way, and to know
what you're dealing with.
As a side note, I just did a recrystalization of Spectracide brand stump remover, and it crystalized beautifully, leaving only a tiny bit of brown
particulate remaining undissolved, which was easy to filter out.
Also, this thread appears to discuss a very similar topic to this one.
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Kbonchev
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Boiling fertilizer
Hi, it is NPK fertilizer 8+8+8 N, p2o5, K2O I know I screwed this , I should use fertilizer with 0 P . How can I make now Krystal's .after boiling
I've got creamy kristal powder an I'm not shure what is this I wait to dry so can make test burning with sugar. If you have another idea let me know.
I'll let you know after my test what happen. if I still alive.
[Edited on 29-3-2014 by Kbonchev]
Be cool.
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Kbonchev
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Boiling fertilizer
Hi, it is NPK fertilizer 8%+8%+8%, N, p2o5, K2O, I know I screwed this , I should use fertilizer with 0 P . How can I make now Krystal's .after
boiling I've got creamy kristal powder an I'm not shure what is this I wait to dry so can make test burning with sugar. If you have another idea let
me know. I'll let you know after my test what happen. if I still alive.
[Edited on 29-3-2014 by Kbonchev]
Be cool.
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by Kbonchev | | Hi, it is NPK fertilizer 8+8+8 N, p2o5, K2O, I know I screwed this , I should use fertilizer with 0 P . How can I make now Krystal's .after boiling
I've got creamy kristal powder an I'm not shure what is this I wait to dry so can make test burning with sugar. If you have another idea let me know.
I'll let you know after my test what happen. if I still alive. |
I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
Which compound is it specifically that you were trying to isolate from the fertilizer, or are you doing something else entirely?
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Kbonchev
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I tried to isolate potassium nitrate. This is my first try. Maybe I should true out all this powder.!? The point is all we know what happen whit this
mistake to the very end. That's is it.
[Edited on 29-3-2014 by Kbonchev]
Be cool.
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Kbonchev
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After the burning /it do not burn/ test I think all I've got is calcium . My first chemistry test fail. 
[Edited on 30-3-2014 by Kbonchev]
[Edited on 30-3-2014 by Kbonchev]
Be cool.
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Fantasma4500
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for those around europe, supposing the brand is not in the US aswell
Krista-K plus
pretty pure KNO3, although its not all of us that can get hold of big bags of pure fertilizer
also kbonchev
you should be capable of testing for calcium as in water soluble calcium by adding a solution of NaHCO3 (baking soda) to a solution of your fertilizer
if any precipitate forms you either have lead, calcium or barium nitrate in it, could be acetates aswell, although lead and barium would be ... not
quite expected
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copperastic
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maverick you can buy stump remover which is pure potassium nitrate.
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hyfalcon
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You can also go to the local farm coop and ask for greenhouse grade potassium nitrate. It's completely water soluble and like 99.7% pure.
http://www.haifa-group.com/products/plant_nutrition/multi_k_...
[Edited on 30-3-2014 by hyfalcon]
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Kbonchev
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Now My first chemistry journey finish with my solution is gone one meter under the ground.
I'll let you know what's my next journey . Thanks all.
Be cool.
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Kbonchev
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| Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat | for those around europe, supposing the brand is not in the US aswell
Krista-K plus
pretty pure KNO3, although its not all of us that can get hold of big bags of pure fertilizer
also kbonchev
you should be capable of testing for calcium as in water soluble calcium by adding a solution of NaHCO3 (baking soda) to a solution of your fertilizer
if any precipitate forms you either have lead, calcium or barium nitrate in it, could be acetates aswell, although lead and barium would be ... not
quite expected
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I think I find good stuff for my potassium nitrat.
Should I start filtering and boiling it?
Thanks.
Krista-K™ Plus
Hochreiner, kristalliner, voll wasserlöslicher NK-Dünger 13 + 46 zur Bewässerungsdüngung und Blattapplikation, chloridarm
EG-DÜNGEMITTEL
EG-DÜNGEMITTEL
NK-Dünger 13 + 46
chloridarm
13,5 % N Gesamt-Stickstoff
13,5 % N Nitrat-Stickstoff
46 % K2O wasserlösliches Kaliumoxid
Eigenschaften:
Krista-K™ Plus ist ein voll wasserlöslicher Stickstoff- und Kaliumdünger. Das feinkristalline Produkt löst sich sehr schnell und ohne
Rückstände in Wasser auf. Es ist geeignet für alle Bewässerungssysteme, wie Tropfschläuche, Kreisregner, Gießwagen und Pflanzenschutzspritzen
und für alle Anwendungen im Gartenbau sowohl im Freiland wie im Gewächshaus. Krista-K™ Plus eignet sich sowohl zur Boden- wie Blattdüngung.
Optimaler Partner zu YaraLiva™ Calcinit™.
Krista-K™ Plus kann mit allen wasserlöslichen Düngern gemischt werden. Es weist eine hohe Reinheit auf. Krista-K™ Plus ist chlorid- und
natriumfrei.
Be cool.
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TheAlchemistPirate
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This is a lot of work for a chemical so easily obtained, If I were you I would just use spectracide stump remover.
If for some reason you need extremely pure HNO3(It doesn't seem like you do very pure-chemical reliant experiments) I would order from
seattlepotterysupply.com. They don't guarantee lab grade purity but their products tend to be very pure
(potters don't appreciate their works being ruined by impure materials).
"Is this even science anymore?!"
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