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Author: Subject: Making fire (youtube collaborative video)
bob800
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[*] posted on 16-9-2011 at 16:33


Very nice! ;)

I didn't notice any spelling/grammars errors in the video. This is an excellent compilation of unusual demonstrations!


I did catch a few simple errors in the video description (not that they really matter, but I thought you may want to know):
Quote:

mewrox99 is high school student

should be "a" high school student.
Quote:

has had a home lab for a few year

should be "for a few years"


Thanks for the awesome video!
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hkparker
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[*] posted on 16-9-2011 at 16:34


Thanks for catching that! I really appreciate it, and I'm glad you like the video!



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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 16-9-2011 at 17:01


Couple things I noticed:

- A few of the channel links in the description (mine and yours) aren't clickable links for some reason.
- The format of the txt file is hard to read. I'd recommend putting new lines in so that each line of text doesn't run so far off the page. That, or copy it into a word document and convert that to a .pdf for easy viewing.
- The chlorine + turpentine reaction isn't in there. The equation for that reaction is C<sub>10</sub>H<sub>16</sub> (l) + 8Cl<sub>2</sub> (g) == 16HCl (g) + 10C(s)
- It would be nice to include an equation for sugar + potassium chlorate, if there is a single equation that is. I usually like to see equations whenever possible.
- The first sentence in the white P section sounds awkward, something like "When white phosphorus..." would read better.

Some of this is pretty nitpicky, I know. Feel free to change or not change whatever you like. Thanks for putting so much time and effort into this. Great work overall!
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hkparker
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[*] posted on 16-9-2011 at 17:08


Links will be looked at.

I will clean up the experiments descriptions both syntactically and aesthetically, making it an html file.

Chlorine + turpentine will be added.




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mr.crow
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[*] posted on 16-9-2011 at 17:10


Wow!! Some excellent videos there, over 13 minutes



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hkparker
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[*] posted on 16-9-2011 at 18:08


Everything was corrected in the descriptions.

Any other error anyone has noticed?

Also, thanks mr.crow :D!

[Edited on 17-9-2011 by hkparker]




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annaandherdad
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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 05:51
cool ways to make fire


My father's chem book from the 1930's described an experiment that I did several times when I was in high school in the 1960's. It requires white phosphorus, which was available in my high school chem lab. I know it's harder to get now.

You make phosphine by heating white phosphorus under an aqueous solution of NaOH. Do this in a flask out of which all air has been replaced by natural gas. The reaction flask has an input tube for natural gas to come in, and an output tube that just goes to a tray of water where the gas bubbles out. After the air is flushed out, heat the NaOH+phosporus+H20 and phospine gas comes out. When it reaches sufficient concentration, as it bubbles up it ignites spontaneously on contact with the air in little puffs of smoke and flame. If the air in the room is still it makes perfect smoke rings that float for considerable distance before breaking up.
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hkparker
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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 10:51


If no errors are found I propose I set the video to public tomorrow at noon. That gives 24 hours for all of us to go through it one last time and make sure its ok with us all.



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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 15:28


Works for me. I just spent the day hauling flagstones around so no updated turpentine video today! Go ahead and stick with the one you've got, and I think it'll look great.
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hkparker
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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 16:43


Thanks! I'm so exciting this is close to publishing...



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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 17:54


It's great just the way it is. Adding any more reactions onto this video might overwhelm utoobers. 13min is already pretty long but as long as it has good content, people will watch it, and it definitely has good content.

Just out of curiosity, in a collab, who gets the ad-money, if any?
Are you going to put ads and share the profits? Or are you not going to put ads, so no one is jealous?
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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 17:58


I was planning on putting ads, just because be default it puts ads on it. If any on the contributors do not want ads on it then I will take them off immediately.

If contributors would rather keep ads on and have me divide up the profits I'm fine with that too, but I dont make a while lot off of these... might end up with $2 by the end of a month.

I do want to know though, what do those who contributed want me to do?




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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 18:21


I personally think no one will hold a grudge against you for not sharing two dollars :)
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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 18:31


thanks, I agree. It up to the video contributors though, so I'll keep them on until I'm told not to.



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#maverick#
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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 20:10


ad money is a joke unless your videos get 1,500 views or more per day, i say if u make anything over 15 bucks just donate science madness, hosting and maintaining a big site like this gets expensive



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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 21:28


Quote: Originally posted by #maverick#  
donate science madness


I like this idea very very much. Ill proceeds from the video will be donated to sciencemadness monthly, when I get them. Unless there are objections from contributors.

EDIT:

Formatik U2U'ed me and said I can use his videos as well. Seeing as this video is already 13 minutes long and ready to be released tomorrow, I say we should do a part 2 like earlier suggested. This will include anyone who wants in, so long as all the reactions are new.

[Edited on 18-9-2011 by hkparker]




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Formatik
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[*] posted on 17-9-2011 at 22:33


Pretty good work guys. Trying it in much smaller amounts, I wasn't able to get a reaction between turpentine and chlorine. All of the old interesting chemistry books talked about it, but I had never seen the turpentine reaction demonstrated.
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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 07:50


I'll watch the whole video soon, but something at the very begining striked me as quite irresponsible.
Flammable organics are never dripped into manganese heptoxide. That can lead to an explosion. A proper way when doing a demonstration is wetting a piece of cotton with the organic liquid and touching the heptoxide (which is BTW fuming with ozone). The wet cotton ignites. And that's enough.
Organic solids are never dropped into the heptoxide. This is not how it's done. Instead, the heptoxide is dropped on the solid. A flame appears, and the solid is corroded. While doing that, the demonstrator explains to the viewers why is the opposite so dangerous.
Guys, these are established rules of demonstration experiments. Just like "sulfuric acid in water" rule.

Trust me, dropping flammables into this furiously oxidizing medium can lead to a disaster. It can produce a bang and spray this mixture of heptoxide and acid.
Of course, you could drop a bucket of gasoline in a tank of heptoxide if you have a wasteland and a special suit, but this is not the case.
Please don't do these fringe demonstrations, or at least explain to the viewers why they're not recommended.

Imagine what happens on Youtube. The title contains "fire", "matches", and tags "flame" "chemicals" "burn".
Are you aware of the kind of people that is mostly attracted to it, and surf the Web searching these very terms? It's those stupid pyro-kids that later show up at ER with skin burns. Sooner or later, they dunk a cup of gasoline in a fire and then wonder what happened.
They don't know anything about safety or what happens in these reactions. They don't respect the laboratory rules, the dosages. "The more, the merrier", that's their rule. They don't use face shields, gloves and aprons. They do this while wearing "I'm with stupid" T-shirts, flinging their bieber-hair while hovering over the experiment. If something bangs, they laugh like morons and move the camera like they're experiencing a seizure. After they post the video, more of their clones comment the work in a: "OMG dat so kewl ima try dat fire rulz yeah LOL" manner.

Manganese heptoxide eats skin like burning phosphorus or hot piranha. It makes terrible wounds that heal for months and leave lifetime scars.

You should remember that although you all probably know the reactions and dangers, you're presenting this to the public, and majority of the public is incredibly stupid.
Never underestimate people's stupidity.



I really noticed that people on this forum are very polarized. Some are nervous Nellies that nag about someone uses a bad cork to plug a tube filled with sand, and some are the extreme opposite.
I mean, if you don't know the rules, download a college lab manual, or buy a book. Rules are there not just to protect you, but also to establish a sense of standard. They're useful, too.




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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 08:26


Good point Endimion. But you should keep in mind that filmed demonstrations are supposed to be dramatic, otherwise utoobers will not watch the video. I liked how the manganese heptoxide reaction came in first to grab the viewer's attention instead of turning it away. The stupid "pyro kids" who look for these videos know that these reactions are dangerous, they know they are taking a risk and they know that they are not going to get any sympathy from their parents if they screw up. It's better just to put a "I'm not liable for prosecution" in the vid description to avoid any legal trouble.
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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 09:01


Is the video supposed to be scientific or just "bomb the shit out of a"?
There's creds, too. A status, an image. Why tainting it with such things?

OK, let it be dramatic (I'm always for a show), but with a sense of control and instructions, warnings. It adds a flavor, a value.

Regarding the pyro kids, they are rarely stopped by their parents, and a minority of casualties reaches the media. The fact we don't hear about them often doesn't mean they're rare. Ask anyone working in the ER, and they'll share some lovely stories.

Putting just legal notice is cold, unsymphathetic. I'd rather care about the actual well-being of others. It's similar to putting a bomb with a code unlocker in the middle of a park, and sticking a sign "the code is 63425, but if you type it, the bomb will explode. The author is not responsible, it's your own fault if you die".




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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 10:25


People being unsafe with dangerous and flammable chemicals is a tragedy but not our responsibility. Lets say the video isn't posted. A quick google search will still teach you how to do any of these reactions, and if most often presented in a less scientific way. So not posted these things is not preventing stupid people from doing stupid things, there's really nothing we can do to stop that.



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Endimion17
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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 10:47


I don't understand how can someone think like that. If you can't alleviate something, why aggravate it?

In every god damn book about inorganics I've ever read it clearly states that manganese heptoxide is a very unstable compound capable of detonating upon introduction of flammable organics. A friend of mine dropped some acetone into it when he was a kid and learly lost his sight.

If you're making a chemical experiment demonstration, then you should go by the rules.

But ok, you don't have to. For example, video of throwing a chunk of sodium into the sea is not a chemical experiment demonstration. OK, it's fine with me. If you're simply making "how to make fire", then do it in an improper fashion. Be dramatic, make a fireball, destroy a trailer, I don't care. But warn others about it and don't try to sell your product labeled with science, because it's not.
Upon opening the link, you see word like "collaboration", "experiment", "chemistry". Even NurdRage and woelen are mentioned, and they have creds. Few seconds later, happy time. WTF?

What will be next, nitrogen trichloride fireworks?




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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 10:59


No, not at all. I think you have good points but I still don't see this as a contribution tward the problem of kewls making explosives, its not aggravating the problem at all. If you do a search on YouTube you will find plenty of channels of people with "recipes" for explosives. If some kewl just wants to make a big boom, thats where they are going to go, not to our project. Tags however will be edited.

I know woelen has seen this video already and has not expressed concern, I think were fine to proceed. If a moderator feels it is too dangerous I will take it down instantly but until then I dont see the problem with posting it.




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Endimion17
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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 11:08


Just to add something, I might someday make a video on NCl<sub>3</sub>, but I sure won't suggest anything that might lead to an injury. I don't have any issues with compounds, just the way they're treated.



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[*] posted on 18-9-2011 at 11:17


He's right Endimion. What are you gonna do about it? This video shows classic reactions that take two seconds to find on the interwebs. This video is safer than other videos that show the exact same reactions performed by inexperienced pyro kids.
Too often you have stupid kids who show other stupid kids how to do dangerous things (CO2 bombs for example). I don't oppose this video, simply because it was filmed by experienced people, not average kids.

Putting warnings before every reaction clutters up the video and bores experienced chemists to death. The video is perfect just the way it is. One thing that should be changed, is the video description. Put "***I AM NOT LIABLE FOR PROSECUTION, I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DAMAGE YOU MIGHT CAUSE TO PRIVATE PROPERTY, OTHERS OR YOURSELF IN ATTEMPT TO DUPLICATE THE DEMONSTRATIONS CONTAINED IN THIS VIDEO***" or something along those lines. That way everyone is happy, the video stays short, experienced chemists enjoy the video, you can't get sued, and children might think twice before duplicating the demonstrations.
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