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OneShot
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RDX
hello friends, I'm from Brazil I'm sorry for my english, I have a question, I have 150 grams of RDX (cyclotrimethylene) I have no idea what quantities
to use to detonate. What to use as an explosive booster charge I own Tetryl and acetone peroxide are effective for these explosives detonated? how
much do I need to get a good explosion? and what the barrel length for this to be done better?
sorry for my english thanks
[Edited on 19-3-2011 by OneShot]
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quicksilver
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Que você significa pelo "tambor"? Uma qualquer quantidade (de RDX) não explodirá, lá é nenhum mínimo. Entretanto os peróxidos são muito
sensíveis aos estímulos. Um substituto deve ser fornecido.
En Ingles: the sensitivity of a peroxide is a poor idea in any event to use as an initiator. The term "barrel" is in question. RDX or for that matter
any explosive that "detonates" does not require a container.
Portuguese is not too dissimilar from Spanish. Obtain quality scientific literature in Spanish regarding explosives before proceeding. To understand
the "little things" that are extremely important for safety & learning - look for books on mining, industrial blasting, & related information.
Obtain details in your native language first. It is ultimately important for safety. A small thing misunderstood could bring you harm. Learn the
sensitivities of peroxides. They are many & difficult to control unless you understand them completely. Even then, many have been hurt because the
material is so sensitive and stimulus must be constantly controlled.
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OneShot
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yes i understand but wanted to know the minimum amount for someone who has done this to avoid accidents,which book you would indicate me?
[Edited on 20-3-2011 by OneShot]
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quicksilver
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First look at translations of English language books from authors such as Davis and Nauom. This Forum has both I believe but translations may exist as
well. Title: Chemistry of Powder & Explosives- Davis.
Do a search for "TRANSLATIONS". Check local libraries both public & university. You will find very important material.
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Bot0nist
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Quote: Originally posted by OneShot  | yes i understand but wanted to know the minimum amount for someone who has done this to avoid accidents,which book you would indicate me?
[Edited on 20-3-2011 by OneShot] |
I would imagine that the minimum amount of RDX that , for someone inexperienced, would eliminate the possibility of accidents is around 0 grams.  Have fun  .
All joking aside, I am halfway through Davis, and it is an amazing read. I really hope your able to find a good translation. Good luck my friend, and
please be safe.
[Edited on 20-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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quicksilver
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É muito importante para que você possa tirar o máximo de suas informações de livros de ciência. Obtenção de informações na internet não é
segura.
O que as pessoas profissional fazer é ler - isso é muito importante. Lendo o livro da ciência e da química é a única maneira segura de uderstand
o que você precisa para se manter seguro.
My Spanish is so so; not too bad; not too good. If you have trouble making yourself understood - write the question in Portuguese, I will figure it
out. If you can take the time to try to read my English I can certainly take the time to work with your question in Spanish. I am only concerned for
safety.
[Edited on 20-3-2011 by quicksilver]
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | É muito importante para que você possa tirar o máximo de suas informações de livros de ciência. Obtenção de informações na internet não é
segura.
O que as pessoas profissional fazer é ler - isso é muito importante. Lendo o livro da ciência e da química é a única maneira segura de uderstand
o que você precisa para se manter seguro.
My Spanish is so so; not too bad; not too good. If you have trouble making yourself understood - write the question in Portuguese, I will figure it
out. If you can take the time to try to read my English I can certainly take the time to work with your question in Spanish. I am only concerned for
safety.
[Edited on 20-3-2011 by quicksilver] |
you spoke my language properly thank you have the link to download this book and the translation I use the translator goolgle thanks!
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | | Quote: Originally posted by OneShot | yes i understand but wanted to know the minimum amount for someone who has done this to avoid accidents,which book you would indicate me?
[Edited on 20-3-2011 by OneShot] |
I would imagine that the minimum amount of RDX that , for someone inexperienced, would eliminate the possibility of accidents is around 0 grams. Have fun .
All joking aside, I am halfway through Davis, and it is an amazing read. I really hope your able to find a good translation. Good luck my friend, and
please be safe.
[Edited on 20-3-2011 by Bot0nist] |
I have a collection of books called "Massive Chemistry and explosives book collection - COMPLETED " is good these books?
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | First look at translations of English language books from authors such as Davis and Nauom. This Forum has both I believe but translations may exist as
well. Title: Chemistry of Powder & Explosives- Davis.
Do a search for "TRANSLATIONS". Check local libraries both public & university. You will find very important material. |
thanks 
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quicksilver
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Most are fine: read Davis first. Study the "Preparations" in that book. Reading and studying are the most important thing you can do now. Learn the
elemental chemistry - it will not be too difficult. That will allow you to proceed with a larger understanding of this issues.
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | | Most are fine: read Davis first. Study the "Preparations" in that book. Reading and studying are the most important thing you can do now. Learn the
elemental chemistry - it will not be too difficult. That will allow you to proceed with a larger understanding of this issues. |
quiksilver, I understood more about reading the books as I am Brazilian, I have difficulty in translation because the files are in pdf scanner and
books, so I do want to have the approximate amount if you guys know how to avoid guess work to explode the rdx would require approximately about 5
grams of acetone peroxide and 30 grams of tetryl in a tube inside the rdx that everything will be in another, I did not want to put too much not to
lose that tetryl is very expensive if you know more or less quantities please give me a light. Thank you for your patience and understanding
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Bot0nist
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I think your asking how large of an organic peroxide blasting cap is needed, and how much trinitrophenylmethylnitramine would be effective to shoot a
150gram RDX charge.
You may have trouble getting answers to your question here for a couple of reasons.
1. Qiucksilver clarified to you that an organic peroxide will not make a suitable initiator, not because it lacks the necessary power, but because its
EXTREMELY sensitive and unpredictable nature makes it seem suicidal to use at all, let alone in a larger charge. Even though this has been explained,
you seem determined to try it. Which is detrimental to your future well being.
2. Discussing the amounts of primaries and boosters needed to detonate X amount of HE goes a little beyond the scope of this forum IMO, so some
members may be hesitant to reply. I am new here though, so I could be dead wrong.
[Edited on 21-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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quicksilver
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@ Bot0nist :
I believe what you're saying is right on the money.
From examples set in history both accident and in study, it is within possibility for a single primary train to initiate a ridiculously large amount
of sensitive secondary explosive. Within theory, a single detonation could initiate a charge cubed upon it's weight. This is dependent upon factors
such as sensitivity and placement; "carriage-wave" and weight orientation of a secondary such as the sensitivity of PETN or RDX (which are very
similar in many ways regarding detonation & activity).
I [personally] have very strong issues with highly sensitive energetic peroxides. TATP is actually not nearly as effective initiator as HMTP; however
both are SO sensitive that their use is a higher gamble. Particularly TATP, which has a ridiculously high sensitivity to static stimuli in addition to
storage and design issues (dimer, trimer, etc). No professional organization has ever put forward TATP as a serious candidate, even when the demands
of energetic peroxides were addressed via non-metallic capsules (Davis,1943: Hartwig, 1934). Unfortunately HMTP is so sensitive that it had also been
left to a curiosity due to static & friction sensitivity even though it's initiation ability was very high & effective.
However generally speaking, single initiator designs (caps, detonators) are defendant upon "client" secondary, design configuration- insertion point,
weight, density, chemical-configuration, & purpose. Thus an answer to such a question as "how much" initiator to how much secondary begs further
information to a point of almost infinite possibilities. Being too unspecific a question; it would demand "sub-sets" of usage & environment even
when a known secondary weight is present. This is exactly WHY independent study is mandatory..... - So that safety through understanding energetic
materials becomes the basis for the question; to be specific and the usage / environment is transparent to the discussion.
One should ALWAYS have a basis for knowledge that is well researched when dealing with an issue of potential danger, etc & never depend upon the
opinions of unknown others but rather, the well documented research of science & history of success and failure to begin a productive dialog.
[Edited on 21-3-2011 by quicksilver]
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AndersHoveland
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I believe the term you mean is "critical diameter". This report mentions a charge of composition B detonating, which had a diameter of only 25.5 mm.
From this, it can be inferred that a piece of RDX with a diameter of only 2.5 cm can be detonated, and probably smaller than that.
http://dspace.dsto.defence.gov.au/dspace/bitstream/1947/4134...
Not only is AP very unsafe, but it is also a poor initiator of other main charges since it is mostly an "entropic explosive" (most of the effective
energy released is in the form of resultant gases that take up a larger volume, not heat)
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quicksilver
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RDX has been used in the base charge of a det cap that is 6mm OD therefore I would imagine that diameter is less important than density.
edit:
I'm thinking in Spanish now, so I am having to rewrite many things.
RDX se ha utilizado en la carga de la base de un tope detonante que es de 6 mm OD por lo tanto me imagino que el diámetro es menos importante que la
densidad.
[Edited on 21-3-2011 by quicksilver]
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Bot0nist
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver |
"One should ALWAYS have a basis for knowledge that is well researched when dealing with an issue of potential danger, etc & never depend upon the
opinions of unknown others but rather, the well documented research of science & history of success and failure"...
[Edited on 21-3-2011 by quicksilver] |
Wiser words were never spoken. That's almost good enough to make be signature.
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OneShot
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my friends, I understood that you guys told me but forgot to mention that I am not inexperienced, I am pharmacist, biochemist and chemist, but I guess
my question is more about the physics maths chemistry own, I do not understand about physics and math, I know the properties and dangerousness of all
test elements cited in addition to knowing how to synthesize them, TATP is extremely sensitive not I be making more PETN what is best for my purpose
because in my country does not think Pentaerythritol here acetaldehyde costing $ 375 or $ 150, would be very expensive, I know how to synthesize a
great deal of explosives, and Too I've brought up some, got some projects to create the foundation for explosive organic compounds, but I am humbled
to come here to ask about explosives, I made a simple question what kind of explosives and what diameter and length of the load that I
have to put in 150 grams of RDX to have a good blasting technique leaves the party I myself, I love the chemistry and extreme energetic materials, I
am a person who paid for my own costs, one day I can make a revolution in this type of area God willing, will greatly enhance the building among other
things, even if it costs my life.
thanks
mis amigos, he entendido que ustedes me dijo, pero se olvidó de mencionar que no soy inexperto, yo soy bioquímico farmacéutico y químico, pero
supongo que mi pregunta es más sobre la química de la física matemática, yo no entiendo de física y matemáticas, que conocer las propiedades y
la peligrosidad de todos los elementos de prueba citados, además de conocer la forma de sintetizar, TATP es extremadamente sensible, no puedo estar
haciendo más PETN lo que es mejor para mi propósito, porque en mi país no piensa Pentaeritrita aquí acetaldehído un costo de $ 375 o $ 150,
sería muy caro, yo sé cómo sintetizar una gran cantidad de explosivos, y también me he criado algunos, tiene algunos proyectos para crear las
bases de explosivos compuestos orgánicos, pero me siento muy honrado de venir aquí a preguntar por explosivos, hice una simple pregunta ¿qué tipo
de explosivos y qué diámetro y la longitud de la carga que tengo que poner en 150 gramos de RDX para tener una buena técnica de chorro que sale de
la parte que a mí mismo, me encanta la química y la extrema materiales energéticos, soy una persona que pagó por mis propias costas, un día me
puede hacer una revolución en este tipo de área si Dios quiere, aumentará en gran medida la construcción, entre otras cosas, aunque me cueste la
vida.
gracias
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Bot0nist
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Lol, Now i'm sure that this doesn't belong here. I doubt anyone here will want to help you prepare, or give you much advice on using explosives to
start a revolution. Amateur chemistry has a hard enough time with people coming onto chemistry boards and trying to obtain information on how to kill
people/destroy property. If you need any further help with the real world, practical applications of energetic materials, or another tips you may need
to kick off a good coup, then I suggest you visit the E&W forum, as it doesn't belong here.
maybe here is good.
http://www.roguesci.org/
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | Lol, Now i'm sure that this doesn't belong here. I doubt anyone here will want to help you prepare, or give you much advice on using explosives to
start a revolution. Amateur chemistry has a hard enough time with people coming onto chemistry boards and trying to obtain information on how to kill
people/destroy property. If you need any further help with the real world, practical applications of energetic materials, or another tips you may need
to kick off a good coup, then I suggest you visit the E&W forum, as it doesn't belong here.
maybe here is good.
http://www.roguesci.org/ |
I want to be clear! I'm not here to match any type of terrorist attack killing people or something, my country is at peace, my questions are is to
scientific knowledge, if someone did not want to give me information I will get her alone, but it took a little longer for that, I'm doing my studies
here by accurate calculations of a diameter of 10cm and a density of at least 1.5 with 75% of tube tetryl and 25% of TATP. am I wrong?
thanks
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Bot0nist
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My apologies OneShot. I may have misinterpreted some of your post. I am glad to hear you have peaceful intentions. Peaceful means are probably the
best way to bring about meaningful change in a community anyways. I know armed revolutions can and do happen in this day and age, but I bet most times
it just ends with lots of lives lost and no real change.
Back to your question. So 150g cyclotrimethylene pressed, and 5g TATP with 75%(of the volume of the 'tube' containing the TATP I assume?) of tetryl
booster, right?
TATP isn't the best initiator, but if it shoots the tetryl it should work. Have you done some small scale tests to see it TATP will effectively
initiate the tetryl?
The material of the cap plays a roll, as softer materials tend to 'balloon' out before breaking. Pushing the secondary away at the last moment. Of
coarse brittle metal casing are probably best, but you should NOT PUT PEROXIDES IN METAL CONFINEMENT anyways. Placement of the Cap/booster is
important as well, and there is a lot of well documented work on this subject, as it has been one of the most commercial applications of chemistry in
history. I realize though that you may have trouble with the availability of literature in you language/location.
I really can't give you a sure answer as to will it go full-order or just pop. There are just to many variables to consider. Good luck, and please
keep the safety of yourself and other in mind at all times.
Edit: P.S. "I love the chemistry and extreme energetic materials, I am a person who paid for my own costs, one day I can make a revolution in this
type of area God willing, will greatly enhance the building among other things, even if it costs my life.", said OneShot.
That sentence isn't encouraging, by the way. It's more than a little cause for apprehension IMHO.
[Edited on 22-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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quicksilver
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Oneshot: what Bot0nist was saying was that in terms of the rules of the forum, the specifics are that we do not enter into "practical applications"
of energetic materials. This is a thin line I know (e difícil) and he was not saying anything negative about your question I am fairly sure.
The "line" is a difficult one to describe and often it is close to impossible to describe in certain areas. We do this for many reasons. One of them
is that safety can only be implemented by the individual. Therefore it is very important for you to get as much information in the area of practical
application from your own research. That way you will know what level of science has been applied to the answer you find. We want you to be safe. We
also want you to have the information. However too often when information is written from one person to another little issues can be overlooked. It is
most often, not intentional. But the issues are very serious; the subject very complex and potentially dangerous. We do care about our member's
safety. The only way that can be accomplished is for the individual to seek the best sources of information - those that are published.
-=Vou TENTAR traduzir......
A "linha" é difícil de descrever e muitas vezes é quase impossível de descrever em determinadas áreas. Fazemos isso por várias razões. Um deles
é que a segurança só pode ser implementado pelo indivíduo. Por isso, é muito importante para você obter o máximo de informações no domínio
da aplicação prática da sua própria investigação. Dessa forma, você vai saber qual o nível da ciência tem sido aplicada para a resposta que
você encontrar. Nós queremos que você seja salvo. Nós também queremos que você tenha as informações. mas muitas vezes quando a informação é
escrita de uma pessoa para outra, pequenos problemas podem ser negligenciados. É na maioria das vezes, não intencional. Mas as questões são muito
sérias, o assunto muito complexo e potencialmente perigosos. Nós nos importamos com a segurança de nossos membros!
I also agree that the choice of words is worrying. Negligence through ignorance or other self defeating issues are what causes injury. Too often those
injuries are not what results in death but the loss of a hand, or sight, castration, or disfigurement.
Contribution in science is rarely a question of loss of sight or disfigurement if the scientist has done his "homework". If not; the actual
contribution is often in the area of (attempted) reconstructive surgery & emergency medicine. The Good Lord gave us a brain to think with &
learn. Rarely does He seek a gamble in areas of knowledge that others have paid for previously.
Let us move on from here now. I hope your question was answered to the degree that we can do so.
[Edited on 22-3-2011 by quicksilver]
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | My apologies OneShot. I may have misinterpreted some of your post. I am glad to hear you have peaceful intentions. Peaceful means are probably the
best way to bring about meaningful change in a community anyways. I know armed revolutions can and do happen in this day and age, but I bet most times
it just ends with lots of lives lost and no real change.
Back to your question. So 150g cyclotrimethylene pressed, and 5g TATP with 75%(of the volume of the 'tube' containing the TATP I assume?) of tetryl
booster, right?
TATP isn't the best initiator, but if it shoots the tetryl it should work. Have you done some small scale tests to see it TATP will effectively
initiate the tetryl?
The material of the cap plays a roll, as softer materials tend to 'balloon' out before breaking. Pushing the secondary away at the last moment. Of
coarse brittle metal casing are probably best, but you should NOT PUT PEROXIDES IN METAL CONFINEMENT anyways. Placement of the Cap/booster is
important as well, and there is a lot of well documented work on this subject, as it has been one of the most commercial applications of chemistry in
history. I realize though that you may have trouble with the availability of literature in you language/location.
I really can't give you a sure answer as to will it go full-order or just pop. There are just to many variables to consider. Good luck, and please
keep the safety of yourself and other in mind at all times.
Edit: P.S. "I love the chemistry and extreme energetic materials, I am a person who paid for my own costs, one day I can make a revolution in this
type of area God willing, will greatly enhance the building among other things, even if it costs my life.", said OneShot.
That sentence isn't encouraging, by the way. It's more than a little cause for apprehension IMHO.
[Edited on 22-3-2011 by Bot0nist] |
thanks, I understand that I can not confine TATP and tetryl in metal pipes, the more they would be better, I saw people putting plastic or detonators
to detonate the pipe ampho I wondered whether to detonate the rdx is easier the more I'm Too I theory it would launch the tetryl-shaped balloon and
not directing down because of their fragility the pvc pipe that does not deliver good structure, it would be better to put in aluminum pipe?
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | Oneshot: what Bot0nist was saying was that in terms of the rules of the forum, the specifics are that we do not enter into "practical applications"
of energetic materials. This is a thin line I know (e difícil) and he was not saying anything negative about your question I am fairly sure.
The "line" is a difficult one to describe and often it is close to impossible to describe in certain areas. We do this for many reasons. One of them
is that safety can only be implemented by the individual. Therefore it is very important for you to get as much information in the area of practical
application from your own research. That way you will know what level of science has been applied to the answer you find. We want you to be safe. We
also want you to have the information. However too often when information is written from one person to another little issues can be overlooked. It is
most often, not intentional. But the issues are very serious; the subject very complex and potentially dangerous. We do care about our member's
safety. The only way that can be accomplished is for the individual to seek the best sources of information - those that are published.
-=Vou TENTAR traduzir......
A "linha" é difícil de descrever e muitas vezes é quase impossível de descrever em determinadas áreas. Fazemos isso por várias razões. Um deles
é que a segurança só pode ser implementado pelo indivíduo. Por isso, é muito importante para você obter o máximo de informações no domínio
da aplicação prática da sua própria investigação. Dessa forma, você vai saber qual o nível da ciência tem sido aplicada para a resposta que
você encontrar. Nós queremos que você seja salvo. Nós também queremos que você tenha as informações. mas muitas vezes quando a informação é
escrita de uma pessoa para outra, pequenos problemas podem ser negligenciados. É na maioria das vezes, não intencional. Mas as questões são muito
sérias, o assunto muito complexo e potencialmente perigosos. Nós nos importamos com a segurança de nossos membros!
I also agree that the choice of words is worrying. Negligence through ignorance or other self defeating issues are what causes injury. Too often those
injuries are not what results in death but the loss of a hand, or sight, castration, or disfigurement.
Contribution in science is rarely a question of loss of sight or disfigurement if the scientist has done his "homework". If not; the actual
contribution is often in the area of (attempted) reconstructive surgery & emergency medicine. The Good Lord gave us a brain to think with &
learn. Rarely does He seek a gamble in areas of knowledge that others have paid for previously.
Let us move on from here now. I hope your question was answered to the degree that we can do so.
[Edited on 22-3-2011 by quicksilver] |
I'm in the wrong place at the forum is how you pass me the link quiksilver? I also understand your concern you knows a person skilled in the practice
of explosives could you tell me? I can trust?
thanks
[Edited on 22-3-2011 by OneShot]
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quicksilver
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| Quote: Originally posted by OneShot |
I'm in the wrong place at the forum is how you pass me the link quiksilver? I also understand your concern you knows a person skilled in the practice
of explosives could you tell me? I can trust?
thanks
[Edited on 22-3-2011 by OneShot] |
I have not kept up with many of the other places. One of them stopped totally (Explosive & Weapons Forum). But there ARE other places that deal
with the PRACTICAL issues as you would want!
I am not saying they are good or bad however.......
Any suggestions for this man?
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OneShot
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | | Quote: Originally posted by OneShot |
I'm in the wrong place at the forum is how you pass me the link quiksilver? I also understand your concern you knows a person skilled in the practice
of explosives could you tell me? I can trust?
thanks
[Edited on 22-3-2011 by OneShot] |
I have not kept up with many of the other places. One of them stopped totally (Explosive & Weapons Forum). But there ARE other places that deal
with the PRACTICAL issues as you would want!
I am not saying they are good or bad however.......
Any suggestions for this man? |
quiksiver
You already blew up some kind of explosive that you could give me an idea that you used to detonate it?
thanks
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