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darkflame89
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Possibility of sulphuric acid?
Now i am collecting every single form of making sulphuric acid, and i encountered such a reaction:
5SO2+4H2O+IO3 ---> 5SO4 2- +8(H+)+ I2
Is this possible with sodium chlorate(by heating of bleach..)?
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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Saerynide
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I think Im lost.
Where does the iodate come from? NaClO3 isnt even in the equation 
Edit: Maybe Im misreading here. Do you mean substituting iodate with chlorate?
[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Saerynide]
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BromicAcid
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It would work but you know how weak bleach is. You mean heating bleach to decompose the hypochlorite to the chloride and the chlorate right? Atleast
you would get the double wammy reaction of:
Cl2 + SO2 + 2H2O ---> 2HCl + H2SO4
If you had the solution stirring enough during the reaction to result in the reincorporation of the resultant chlorine gas that is. Personally I like
the idea of a stoichiometric quantity of bromine and water efficently stirred with SO2 bubbling through it. As the concentration of H2SO4 rose it
would drive off the HBr somewhat pure with the exception of bromine vapor and some water vapor and residual SO2 and in the end you might end up with
near pure H2SO4.
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darkflame89
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Wait wait, i saw the reaction as the process to isolate iodine from the sodium iodate found in Chile. The precipitate of iodine and the sulphate ions
plus the high number of hydrogen ions generated attracted my attention. I thought what a great way to generate the acid, and thought of whether i
could sodium chlorate(V).
Anyway about the Cl2 gas forming both sulphuric acid and hydrochloric acid, i jus so happy about it. NVM about the in purity, the double mixture of
strong acids might even act like aqua regia!!
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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Saerynide
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But we still have to find SO2 
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darkflame89
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That is why i am also considering certain reactions that give out this gas. I am considering of using photographer hypo, but i am still looking for
it...
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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axehandle
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S + O
I hate to point out the obvious (well, I actually like it  ), but burning sulfur
gives SO2 in hellish quantities. Take my word for it.
My PGP key, Fingerprint 5D96 E09E 365D 1867 2DF5 C2FE 4269 9C19 E079 CD35
\"Verbing nouns weirds the language!\"
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Saerynide
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We dont have access to sulfur
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thunderfvck
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Not even at the pharmacies? I'm sure you've already looked, but that's where I found mine. It's used for acne. I got a nice big
bottle of it.
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Saerynide
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Nope, zippo. Its probably regulated or some shit like that
Btw, wow, sulfur in pharmacies?
Edit:
Look at this from the Merck Index on Al Sulfate:
"On long boiling of aq soln, insol basic salt ppts. The soln is acid."
How does that work? So by boiling it slowly, you get H2SO4 and Al(OH)3??
[Edited on 20-4-2004 by Saerynide]
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The_Davster
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| Quote: | Originally posted by thunderfvck
Not even at the pharmacies? I'm sure you've already looked, but that's where I found mine. It's used for acne. I got a nice big
bottle of it. |
What chain of pharmacies was this from? I'm over to your west in Alberta. Most of the pharmacies here dont carry anything good. The best thing I
have found in a pharmacy here is oxalic acid. I dont really need any more sulfur, I have 500g I bought from a local supplier but its interesting to
know other sources.
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BromicAcid
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You could always roast a sulfide. You could always get those through some rock collecting connections, in that way elemental sulfur could be procured
too. If you were really desperate you could extract it from match heads but it's a pain and as most people's luck would go if you went into
a store and bought 5 boxes of matches they are going to think that you are making drugs around my house, not that you are just innocently extracting
the sulfur (and the chlorate and everything else). If you were just looking for straight SO2 though you could get it from the same source as me. I
bought a few lithium/sulfur dioxide batteries on eBay awhile back. When I need SO2 I drill a hole in one side and drop into a jar and cap with a
stopper with a glass tube leading out. It's liquid SO2 on the inside and each battery has about 20 g or so but on the even better side, after
it's all done I take out the battery and cut a circle around it with a hack saw, about 5 g of lithium sheet on the inside
Edit:
Also, don't forget that it is avalible from agricultural sources.
[Edited on 4/21/2004 by BromicAcid]
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darkflame89
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Saerynide: That is what I suggested last time in your posts in the MgSO4 to H2SO4. Aluminium sulphate actually hydrolyses to form the products you
stated; its an acidic salt. Once you remove your aluminium hydroxide, you will end up with sulphuric acid. I am looking into iron sulphates too for
this matter. Aluminium electrodes are dirt cheap.
Look at this:http://phys4.harvard.edu/~wilson/arsenic/countries/bangladesh/mortoza/ARTICLE5.html
thunderfvck:No, sulphur is not found is pharmacies. I have combed it entirely, all that is useful is, hydrogen peroxide, potassium citrate, epsom
salts, alcohol, povidone alcohol, aspirin as stuff like that. But there is just no freaking trace of sulphur!!! I mean if me and Saerynide could find sulphur and potassium nitrate, i would long set up a mini sulphur burning
plant like axehandle.
Sigh, so now we are improvising all we can from OTC materials..
BromicAcid: As for sulfide, there's not really a hope too. You might have heard that Singapore has no natural resources, not less to say rock
collecting! As for ebay, that's not really a choice as my budget is quite limited, and remember, i am only 15. and no, you can't find it in
agriculture stuff. there are not really any farms here..and fertilisers contains a whole lot of other shit inside..
[Edited on 21-4-2004 by darkflame89]
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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darkflame89
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And, BromicAcid, bromine gas is not feasible because, this acid will turn sulphuric acid back to sulphur dioxide and bromine. Hydroiodic acid is not
feasible too, it will react to reduce it to hydrogen sulphide gas and iodine.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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Saerynide
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I still dont understand why the sulfuric acid doesnt react back with the aluminum hydroxide
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Al Koholic
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A good source of sulphur is as was already mentioned, MgSO4, Na2SO4, CaSO4, etc. These compounds (I don't know if Al2(SO4)3 would work here...)
can just be heated with charcoal (I mean HEATED) and you will end up with an impure melt of the metal sulphides.
HCl is dropped on this in a gas generator (Kipp generator works best) and you bubble the H2S through an oxidizing solution like H2O2 to precipitate
the S.
Cheap, dirty, bad smelling, yes. Difficult to find the chems, difficult procedure, risk of dying if you do it outside, no.
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DDTea
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Has anyone considered making Sulfuric Acid from Onions? As you know, Onions contain propanethiol S-oxide, an upwardly mobile gas that is released
when you break the Onions' cells, i.e.: cutting, biting into it, or whatever. In contact with water, it forms Sulfuric Acid, and this is why it
makes you cry.
So, what if you were to put a few Onions in a blender, along with some warm water, and then thoroughly frappe it  . From there, you could separate the dilute acid by filtration, or maybe distillation. It would be purified by
boiling.
This would be a very strange method, no doubt, but it might be worth a try--because ANYONE can get onions .
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Saerynide
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Hmmm.. Thats really interesting, but it would require like 5 tons of onions to get a bit of 98% H2SO4
Darkflame, I read the article, but it says:
"The hydrogen ions released combine with alkalinity anions (HCO3-, CO32-, and OH-) to produce carbon dioxide and water and lower the pH (Boyd,
1979). Provided that the pH can be controlled by adding sufficient cations (in the form of lime slurry in water treatment practice), the hydroxide
remains as a colloidal solid, and acts as a filter for particulate matter in the raw water supply. However, if the pH drops to around 5 or less, the
hydroxide redissolves, producing a clear extremely acidic solution"
Its going to be really impractical to keep the pH above 5 cause we'll need TONS of water, and that would mean TONS of boiling just to get a small
amount of acid
Edit: That was the most disorganized paper I have ever read. I can't believe someone at Harvard wrote that
[Edited on 21-4-2004 by Saerynide]
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BromicAcid
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| Quote: |
And, BromicAcid, bromine gas is not feasible because, this acid will turn sulphuric acid back to sulphur dioxide and bromine. Hydroiodic acid is not
feasible too, it will react to reduce it to hydrogen sulphide gas and iodine.
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I've read that industrially exit gasses from the production of HBr are treated with small amounts of SO2 to convert unreacted bromine to HBr. I
got that from "Bromine and its Compounds" however I don't know if this is still the case of if it works in concentrated medium. I will
agree with you on the HI reacting back and reducing the H2SO4 though.
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blip
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I have this cat and dog shampoo that contains sulfur. I don't know where its from or how it was purchased because I didn't buy it. Anyway
on the front there's this purple rectangle with white text saying SebaLyt in large letters but rotated counter-clockwise. Another thing it says
there is "NDC 47203-350-08". To the right of that rectangle it says "Shampoo", gives three ingredients, then "All Purpose
Antiseborrheic Antibacterial Cleansing Formulation for Cats and Dogs." Also on the back "Active Ingredients: Sulfur 2%, Salicylic Acid 2%
and Triclosan 0.5%.", then it gives a product description, indications, directions for use, and precautions. From searching on Google,
apparently no prescription is required.
I put the entire contents in a kitty litter bucket nearly full of water being careful many suds don't form. It seems so far that the sulfur is
still in the undissolved stuff but I haven't done anything like decanting and adding more water to dissolve the green stuff so that the sulfur
comes out.
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thunderfvck
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It's at Pharmaprix. Bottle reads:
Atlas (producer, labratoire Atlas inc., montreal, Quebec, blah) 125 g.
Sulphur
USP
antiseptic for acne
(fire sign)
flammable
Indication: Parasiticide and antiseptic for acne and superficial skin conditions.
Directions: Prepare an ointment with one part sulfur (funny how they change the way they spell it) and ten parts petrolleum jelly. Apply liberally to
affected areas. Avoid contact with eyes.
It's a yellow powder. I assume it's of good purity (USP). I found it right next to the citric acid, near the glycerin, the oil of
wintergreen, the witches hazzle (or whatever), etc. It's a shame you guys don't get it. I paid about $5 for it I believe, is this a good
deal or what? Should I stock up?
I think I'm going to go burn some sulfur now. 
[Edited on 22-4-2004 by thunderfvck]
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darkflame89
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Ok about the sulphur in pharmacy i will look again. About the onions, i read that in the article at about.com. Sounds promising but we might need tons
of onions. About the aluminium sulphate, that isn't so bad. Ok what you need is to test the waters to see if it has reached pH 5 or not. Then you
can pour out the H2SO4 and clear out the aluminium hydroxide. And put in some more new materials. This can go on, i dunno about this plan, might or
might not work. I will have to wait until after the exams to try.
But the equation looks somthing like this:
Al2(SO4)3 + H20 <----> H2SO4 + Al(OH)3
The equilibrum occurs when the pH is about 5. So if you clear out the precipitate, you can cause the the reaction to happen towards the right, forming
more sulphuric acid.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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Pyrovus
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On the Al2(SO4)3 front, perhaps an easier route may be to use H3PO4. AlPO4 is extremely insoluble, so the following reaction should occur:
Al2(SO4)3 + 2H3PO4 -> 2AlPO4 + 3H2SO4
And as H3PO4 is a fairly decent acid, the conjugate base PO4[3-] should show less tendency to back-react to reform H3PO4.
Never accept that which can be changed.
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darkflame89
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Phosphoric acid? Of course, what's more is so powerful! Its the only strong acid i can find around, sold as anti-rust
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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darkflame89
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Recently found this equation :
SO2Cl2 + 2H20 --> H2SO4 + 2HCl
So what is that SO2Cl2 compund? Is it dangerous? Looks dangerous to me..
Edit: Found more info about this compound called sulphuryl chloride
General
Synonyms: sulfonyl chloride, sulphuric oxychloride, chlorosulphuric acid
Molecular formula: Cl2O2S
CAS No: 7791-25-5
EINECS No: 232-245-6
Physical data
Appearance: colourless or pale yellow liquid
Melting point: -54 C
Boiling point: 68-70 C
Vapour density: 4.7
Vapour pressure: 105 mm Hg at 20 C
Density (g cm-3): 1.68
Flash point: none
Explosion limits:
Autoignition temperature:
Stability
Reacts violently with water. Incompatible with acids, alcohols, bases, metals, amines, moisture.
Toxicology
Highly toxic. May be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through skin. Corrosive - causes burns. Lachrymator. Very destructive of mucous
membranes.
Toxicity data
(The meaning of any toxicological abbreviations which appear in this section is given here.)
IHL-RAT LC50 131 ppm (male), 242 ppm (female)
Risk phrases
(The meaning of any risk phrases which appear in this section is given here.)
R14 R23 R24 R25 R34 R37.
[Edited on 26-4-2004 by darkflame89]
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