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12AX7
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Oh, it still causes cell damage, but the concentration required is significant.
http://www.fiery-foods.com/index.php?option=com_content&...
"In order to determine the lethal toxic level of capsaicinoids in animals, and to extrapolate that level for humans, researchers in 1980 performed a
rather gruesome experiment with mice, rats, guinea pigs and rabbits. Pure capsaicin was administered intraveinously, subcutaneously, in the stomach,
and applied topically until the animals died. The lethal toxic doses of capsaicin, measured in milligrams per kilogram of animal weight ranged from a
mere .56 milligrams when administered intraveinously to 190 milligrams when consumed to 512 milligrams when applied topically."
I just wouldn't be able to conduct that test...
Tim
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wackyvorlon
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Capsaicin Extraction and Purification
A friend and I have been discussing the extraction of capsaicin from peppers. I have read through the thread from 2006 on it's extraction, and think I
have a protocol worked out. I'd like to run it by the forum and get any thoughts if I can.
Pulp peppers in blender
Add ethanol
Filter pulp and wash with ethanol
Evapourate ethanol
Now, there are a couple concerns with my protocol. One is potential for contamination from denaturing compounds added to the ethanol. Because of this,
I've been debating other volatile organic solvents. In my mind at the moment, acetone is the front runner. I haven't a lot of luck finding solubility
curves for capsaicin, even the CRC handbook only gives very brief notes.
After evapourating off the remaining organic solvent, I'm a little stuck for processing it further. I have found mention that capsaicin is nearly
insoluble in cold water, how is it's solubility in hot water? Is recrystallization viable? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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Lambda-Eyde
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Can you distill the ethanol? Or alternatively use methanol, which should be free from denaturing agents (obviously  )?
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wackyvorlon
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Methanol is certainly an option. I'll need to check and verify there's no denaturants added. A friend was considering isopropanol, but I'd like to aim
for something like methanol or ethanol for easier evapouration.
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Nicodem
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Threads Merged
13-4-2010 at 13:05 |
Flamethrowa
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Has anyone ever tried/considered an extraction using liquid butane?
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bahamuth
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Could i suggest a modified Bligh & Dyer?
Add 150 parts of 1:2 Chloroform:Methanol and 40 parts of water (minus the water content in the pulp, e.g. to 5 grams of pulp w/ 80% water, subtract 4
grams from the 40 parts of water) to homogenized matter in a sep. funnel, shake occasionally and set to extract for 24 hours in RT, add 50 parts of
pure Chloroform, and 50 parts water and shake vigorously until you get a emulsion, let stand until you get three phases, lower phase (Chloroform)
containing lipids and fat solubles, middle phase contains the extracted matter and finally the top phase containing Methanol and water solubles, like
most pigments, chlorophyll and the like.
Ending ratio in the ternary solvent system should be 2:2:1.8 with Chloroform:Methanol:Water IIRC.
We use this to extract lipids from algae, muscle tissue and various organs.
Never tried it on Capsaicin, but tried the ethanol extraction, worked fairly well but not satisfactory.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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loveoforganic
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So, the vial from the cayenne/acetone extraction got left sitting around. At the bottom of the red oily liquid, small pieces of a white waxy solid
formed. The liquid itself isn't unbearably hot (at least in touching a toothpick in quantities), but I'm too nervous to try a piece of the wax.
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quicksilver
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Just for the sake of discussion, when I had opportunities to buy chemicals at "Commodity" prices I found Capsaicin in both USP and technical grades.
Both were seriously expensive even for the prices I was getting as a buyer.
The "pepper spays" sold & mfg in the USA (& I assume in the EU) were mandated to use the USP material @ close to a US Dollar per gram. Both
materials were white crystalline granular and microscopically appeared similar. They had no obvious shape consistency. - However, there was shaving
within the bottles and the material would easily grind down to single micron sizes that would become airborne VERY easily.
The ease that the material could be weaponized was very obvious.
I would not attempt to purchase some myself as the material appears not too difficult to extract. "Tech support" replied that ethyl acetate was used
in the extraction @ 50C (?), but that diethyl ether could provide a technical grade.
[Edited on 5-6-2010 by quicksilver]
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E-tech
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I am curious- in the "similar" world of a bio-created, chemical irritant;
has anyone ever tried the extraction of the "hot" portion of mustard?
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un0me2
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Just to be a "nervous nellie" but the "tests" which are required for such agents with people were not completed due to the incredible toxicity of the
spray toward rats. Word to the wise, the safety of this "non-lethal" alternative is a long way from established.
quam temere in nosmet legem sancimus iniquam
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densest
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@E-tech - the "hot" in mustard is mostly allyl isothiocyanate CAS 57-06-7 which has been used as a war gas. In a lab long ago, someone left a few
drops of it in a small flask which I attempted to wash out. Luckily, there was a strong draft to the vents so I only got a little bit... bad news.
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The WiZard is In
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Quote: Originally posted by densest  | @E-tech - the "hot" in mustard is mostly allyl isothiocyanate CAS 57-06-7 which has been used as a war gas.
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Hummm .... da mustard gas [dichloroethyl sulphide]
(actually a liquid) used in WW I was called mustard gas
because of it colour.
There is a really dangerous book you could consult , It
can be found where — if I were King it could not be had.
djh
---
Science of the ages, the highest arts of man,
Degraded and prostituted, that Might should take the van,
Whilst Empire, Justice, Freedom slumbered.
Then chemists, student, artisan answered Duty’s call;
Our arms, our arts, our poison fumes
Gained Liberty for all.
Authorship unknown.
Insert — Wilfred Owen's Dulce Et Decorum Est
Here X
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The WiZard is In
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-----
Forgot to add — During WW II the Nazi's killed 83 American
Sailors in Italy with mustard gas.
[Edited on 15-9-2010 by The WiZard is In]
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Eclectic
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My oleoresin capsasien from Liberty was said to be extracted with light fraction of coconut oil.
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The WiZard is In
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a little humor
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12AX7
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Peruvian? That's a Simpsons reference...
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arsphenamine
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Within the wikipedia entry,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin
...They list 6 capsaicinoids, one of them a synthetic homolog.
The top two, capsaicin and the dihydro analog, always predominate and in that order.
A search on capsaicinoid distribution in chile peppers turns up a few articles that show
the distribution is highly variable, both within and amongst species, and is an
unreliable criterion for determining the plant source.
Whatever you do, the dihydro capsaicin is a significant part of the sauce/extract.
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zed
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A lethal dose of .56 Mg/Kg. via IV..... Impressive.
Might take even less by inhalation.
One thing I've noticed is, if you can't breath, you die.
As I recall, there have been some problems like that, here in the US.... Where police use, of pepper spray, is common.
On occasion, a suspect inhales a snoot-full of pepper-spray, and promptly dies.
Should I synthesize a kilo or so, and test it on my more expendable prisoners?
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The WiZard is In
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An American manufacture of tear gas grenades some years ago
stopped selling to our Mideast ally because they
were throwing them into occupied dwellings and then
blocking the doors and windows .....
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | | Just for the sake of discussion, when I had opportunities to buy chemicals at "Commodity" prices I found Capsaicin in both USP and technical grades.
Both were seriously expensive even for the prices I was getting as a buyer. |
Spectrum chemical sells it —
Capsaicin, USP - 1 kg Bulk $24002.65
Byda there dobe nettle gas phosgene oxime CX.
Could (?) be produced for a lot less, however, synthesis is a
chemical engineering problem.
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atomicfire
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Has anyone tried an extraction recently? I think I am going to try using Habaneros and doing an extraction with both an alcohol (SDA 3A - denatured)
and diethyl ether.
I just wanted to see if anyone has come across a more efficient method?
ban DHMO
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blanne
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Capsaicin extraction
I found a few articles scattered, and came up with the following.
1. Grind dried chillies very finely (I used a multiblender then a coffee grinder)
2. Pop in a glass jar and cover the powder with a highly alcoholic beverage. Here in South Africa we brew our own out of fruit, called "Blitz"and it's
anything between 80 & 90 % alcohol.
3. Shake well for a few days, this allows the capsaicin to become dissolved in solution
4. Filter through a fine sieve, then a coffee filter.
5. Evaporate off the alcohol - warm oven or whatever other methid you have
6. You're left with a sticky goo. I re-add a little of the blitz so that it becomes less viscous
7. store in the fridge in a small glass jar.
This stuff is extremely hot. Using only a toothpick I popped some onto my tongue and I was "man down" for quite some time, and salivating like a rabid
dog for ages!
enjoy :-)
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quicksilver
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| Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In | | Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | | Just for the sake of discussion, when I had opportunities to buy chemicals at "Commodity" prices I found Capsaicin in both USP and technical grades.
Both were seriously expensive even for the prices I was getting as a buyer. |
Spectrum chemical sells it —
Capsaicin, USP - 1 kg Bulk $24002.65
Byda there dobe nettle gas phosgene oxime CX.
Could (?) be produced for a lot less, however, synthesis is a
chemical engineering problem. |
To the best of my understanding Capsaicin stimulates surface flushing of capillaries, the irritation may have more complex "interpretative responses"
[that] the brain may respond to as unpleasant. yet we have all seen or known individuals who love spicy foods, etc.
When used as a defensive tool I've noticed two issues. Depending upon the carrier agent (propylene glycol or other surface skin entrant) there's the
obvious burning of the eyes, uncontrollable tearing (& therefore diminish vision) alone with superficial burning of thicker tissue of the face
resulting in some individuals panic response.
The other issue is the low level of toxicity as compared to lung irritants (CS/CN). I had no figures on any long tern health issues nor any potential,
yet when an individual could fall or temporarily loose sight, the possibility for head injury via falling or being struck by traffic would always
exist but [most likely] not be recorded as an injury resultant from the material per se'. However I question that Scoville (sp?) heat units method of
measurements.
I have personally done a little experimenting w/ Capsaicin and it's just my opinion that the carrier agent is a greater determinant of it's
"effectiveness". There is a material, used as a cosmetic for the skin that I found had a surprising level of "carrier strength".
There was a mid-size company in Wyoming that specializes in "less lethal" defensive items like this & some years back they DID have some published
research. I believe the name was "Defense Technology Corp.". That was the only time I even thought of looking into a patent application as I had (what
I had thought) was an original application & design. I still have some written things from them but a search only turned up the barest business
material.
Spectrum used to have both the tech grade and what they called a USP grade.
[Edited on 21-10-2011 by quicksilver]
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Funkerman23
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I have found a method that may help but as this is my first time directly citing please pardon if I make a mistake on the format.
From Modern Alkaloids, Fattoruso,2008
"In this lengthy procedure, barium chloride is used to remove fatty acids from
an acidified extract of the oleoresin, and silver nitrate to precipitate unsaturated
capsaicinoids from their saturated analogs. Further purification is achieved by a
series of partitions between alkaline water solutions and ether, followed by a final
crystallization from ether and washing with boiling petroleum ether (60–110 8C)."
page 86 I believe.
Now I myself have not had the chance to test this method but so far this seems to be the best way to go about separating Capsaicin from the
Capsaiciniod extract liquor.
" the Modern Chemist is inundated with literature"-Unknown
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DraconicAcid
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I think that was a Guatemalan insanity pepper.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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