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JohnWW
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COCl2 is used in the industrial manufacture of polycarbonate polymers, by reaction with diols or diphenols having -OH groups at both ends of a
molecule, particularly "bisphenol A". However, the need to firstly manufacture COCl2 can be eliminated by using a new "green" polycarbonate process,
with CO2 instead reacted with diols/diphenols, but a much higher pressure is required.
[Edited on 23-5-10 by JohnWW]
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quicksilver
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I suppose we'll never know the truth anyway. In matters like this, with a potential tragedy, a family deserves privacy.
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Globey
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I really do feel horrible if anyone of us has died, It is a sad day, and I pray for their soul. One of the wost is just a drip of dimethymmercury.
Even with gloves on. Nasty death. I hope no one has to go through this, NEVER mess with mercury stuff like this. ALWAYS bring to be disposed of
poperly,
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froot
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This is horrible news. My sincere condolences to his family.
Here's a post of his from the Phosphorous topic:
| Quote: |
i tested it today with small amounts in a test tube. Even without sand P4 is produced.
you ever smelled the vapours, when white P is stored under water. This odor is really nice and exotic.
Dont know how to describe it better, but its not phosphine.
some strange Phosphorus oxides/acids..
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This guy's enthusiasm was inspiring. I did feel though in that case he was not warned of the risks to his health.
In other topics he was warned, Franklin for one noticed a flashing red light:
So true and I can't help feeling that even more emphasis on safety is needed here. There are many amateurs on here, myself included, whose enthusiasm
tends to override safety precautions. That is where more experienced members should nip it in the butt. I can't help not considering the possibility
that this community could have altered the course that this guy's life took by getting through to him regarding safety, but by no means accountable,
please don't get me wrong.
Chemistry enthusiasts are rare, we should do what we can to protect each other from harm.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
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stygian
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in reference to Sedit's question about megalomania, if you had ever conversed with him via email, (at least ages ago when I did,) there was a name
attached to them. questionable if it was a real one though.
edit: nevermind. i see its already on this forum in a couple places.
[Edited on 26-5-2010 by stygian]
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Fleaker
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Given some people's predilections (even professional chemists in academia and industry), their potential demise is but mere probability and
statistics. Some research groups that make highly stressed energetic compounds or ridiculously hazardous inorganics seem to pull it off safely, but
they do so with every precaution. Even then, there are still explosions or accidental poisonings. The best circumstances can only serve to minimize
the risk.
Some types of chemistry aren't ever really what I'd call "safe", but rather the risks are tolerable" in light of the rewards. This hobby is about
balancing risk and reward, for what use is such dearly bought knowledge if you are atomised in the quest to obtain it?
Obviously, if one is trying to make phosphorus or phosgene or fluorine in a makeshift setup, the likelihood of an accident greatly increases. Add to
that the impetuous nature of youth and the general lack of resources and the affair is quite sad.
It seems this poor fellow had more enthusiasm for chemistry than safety, if indeed his untimely death was chemistry-related.
I cannot claim to have always been the safest chemist, but I certainly took all the precautions I could afford and rationalize.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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Sedit
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Quote: Originally posted by stygian  | in reference to Sedit's question about megalomania, if you had ever conversed with him via email, (at least ages ago when I did,) there was a name
attached to them. questionable if it was a real one though.
edit: nevermind. i see its already on this forum in a couple places.
[Edited on 26-5-2010 by stygian] |
Um....Huh....
What question exactly did I ask about megalo? AKAIK I made no references to him in the slightest in this thread so could you provide a quote or
something that lets me know what the hell your talking about please.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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stygian
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sedit | I know roguesci is a huge loss but isn't there ANYONE that knew the real name of the owner? I mean I try to keep my profile on the DL so to speak but
a few know my real name and such possibly.
...
~Sedit |
Right there.
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Sedit
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Sorry, I forgot all about that post when I seen a thread about one of our more productive members passing turn into another whinning fest about the
lose of roguesci. Just a little annoying to say the lest when a child dies and everyone crys because there forums gone. Boo friggin whoo... RS didn't
have a heartbeat, a soul, and a family. This kid had his entire life ahead of him and now he botches one synthesis out of many fine ones he performed
and has left us because of that. Thats whats important not a bunch of electronical communications between a bunch of people whos only goal in life is
to make things go boom.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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franklyn
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Last recorded post _
| Quote: Originally posted by Myfanwy | many things are more poisonous than phosgene.
anyway i wanted for a long time to make phosgene. i just want to make this one time in my life.
are there some easier ways to make it? (dont have CHCl3,CCl4 etc) |
| Quote: Originally posted by DJF90 | . . . his profile says he was last active on 10/04/10,
and the youtube message says he died on 19/04/10... its not looking good. |
80 % of gas casualties in the first world war were from phosgene inhalation.
Because it has a pleasant newly mowed hay odor, which belies it's ability to
quickly kill you.
Only the very old on their death bed or the frail infirmed , die of pneumonia ,
not a sixteen year old , unless this was Avian flu. There are many sports
which are hazardous to health , life and limb. No one bemoans participation
in those Xtreme activities. This sad episode starkly shows that explosives
are not exclusive sources of danger.
A by-product of Oxalyl chloride synthesis perhaps.
Likely this thread where his last post appears
http://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=135...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=135...
| Quote: Originally posted by Myfanwy | i think this is very interesting, because TCCA, methanol and oxalic acid arent very hard
to get for hobbychemists. This may be the only option for me to get oxalyl chloride. |
His scatterbrained temerity made more than one seasoned practioner grimace.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=23&...
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Alexein
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Truly said,
We haven't heard a whisper from him in over two months. A guy like that thrives on sharing their adventures, and with this prolonged silence i think
he's really not coming back.
His overwhelming enthusiasm made me think he was going to turn rocks in rocket cars by sheer force of will in a few short years. But it looks like his
reach exceed his grasp and we won't be able to see him realize his potential.
Some individuals tried to point out the excessive danger he was in, but i wonder if he had too much mental momentum for us to stop him, or if we
somehow failed to reach him. If the later, i want to know how to do better if we find another bottle of lightning like him.
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br25
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he was last on here 19.04.2010
18.34 hm
http://www.cosmiq.de/exp/show/Schwefel/
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-=HeX=-
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Now... That is a VERY sad thing, one of us younger generation of chemists passing away thanks to an accident caused by lack of safety.
Seriously. Most chemists in the 15-25 age bracket, unless they had the formal training, seem to abandon safety if it becomes inconvenient. Only an
accident/near death experience causes them to think again, as at this age they believe they are invincible and noting will 'get' them.
Let this here serve as a particularly tragic lesson to all to be VERY fucking careful Read the MSDS, and if in doubt, wear a gas mask at LEAST.
Full NBC suits are dirt cheap. I can get ex-british Milsurp ones for less than 50 euro with shipping, 40 euro in fact.
I wish this kid never had to have such a horrible accident, it makes a part of me wince at the thought of a youngun (I was his age not long ago if I
think about it) having to die such horrible way.
Though I wonder why the media had not gone insane already...
If you give a man a match he will be warm for a moment. Set him alight and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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mewrox99
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I PM'd his friend just2diy about Max's death. According to him it was not an accident but apparently suicide using cyanide.
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Alexein
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how did they tell the difference between him purposely killing himself, and accidentally gassing himself with hydrogen cyanide?
His final posts indicated he wanted to make the stuff "just to see". Now maybe he was actually trying to off himself and just saying it was an
experiment so no one would hound him. But I'm still going to assume he's innocent of suicide until proven otherwise.
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mewrox99
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I guess your right.
If he did die from cyanide like just2diy said, then there is no way to know if he prepared it with the intention of dying unless he left a suicide
note or something.
Just2Diy also mentioned that his death from pulmonary edema which I find strange. I don't think you can get pulmonary edema from HCN since it would
kill you before it damages the lungs.
It's really sad that he's gone, as he was really talented and it looked like he had a bright future ahead
[Edited on 16-7-2010 by mewrox99]
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rrkss
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His last posts here regarded generating phosgene, a highly toxic gas that does cause pulmonary edema.
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Alexein
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Whatever the hell he was doing, if he died by chemical exposure i still wouldn't call it suicide given his chemical hobby. It could have just been a
horrible accident.
Perhaps the police weren't fully aware just how advanced his chemistry knowledge and experimentation was, and assumed that a chemical cause proved
suicidal intent.
If we found out someone on the street died of cyanide poisoning i would also jump to the suicide conclusion since cyanide isn't something most people
swallow by accident.
But if we then found out he was just outside his laboratory and we found inside a cyanide gas leak/generator then i would be more hesitant to call it
suicide.
[Edited on 7-16-2010 by Alexein]
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Skyjumper
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| Quote: Originally posted by -=HeX=- | Now... That is a VERY sad thing, one of us younger generation of chemists passing away thanks to an accident caused by lack of safety.
[....]
Full NBC suits are dirt cheap. I can get ex-british Milsurp ones for less than 50 euro with shipping, 40 euro in fact.
[...]
Though I wonder why the media had not gone insane already... |
Your opinion is part of the reason. An NBC suite? are you INSANE? That makes chemistry look bad. How would your neighbors feel if your walking around
in a tyvek hazmat suite? They think something that will harm them is up. Next thing you know, another "meth cook" is in jail, claiming he was just
doing chemistry.
Thats what makes chem. look bad. Not things like this, because incidents like that happen in labs too. Its the idiots who order bulk quantities of NBC
suites who get busted by the police, and labeled meth cooks, giving chemistry a bad day.
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-=HeX=-
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Man, my country does not have this 'Meth Cook' phenomenon going on. Therefore, the 'chemist witch hunt' is not a real problem. The real problem is
irresponsible idiots and domestic terrorism.
Local LEO know what happens in my shed, and after a few bits of hassle they now turn a blind eye to my work. As far as they (and the district judge)
are concerned, I am a private man working on my own private property, harming nobody, and taking safety VERY seriously.
If they saw me fucking about in my 'old' safety-less lab... THEN I would get in trouble. But me being all safety conscious, having waste barrels which
get delivered to hazardous material dumping areas, and generally using my head? Well, that is OK.
And my neighbours? Well, they cannot see me thanks to a thing called a privacy fence, and the fact I live out in the middle of nowhere! They are used
to loud noises coming from my house/garden, and hell, they enjoy them. Halloween and new years are always spectacular events with EVERYONE firing off
their fireworks and guns.
You may have to worry about neighbours and such, I do not. Therefore, my priority is my own safety.
One neighbour has seen me in gas mask and tyvek, and he assumed I was simply using weedkiller or applying pesticides or something. Another, a farmer,
asked could he borrow some gear when he has to fumigate some outbuildings.
It is all about WHERE you live, WHAT the attitudes ate, and HOW you act. Act irresponsibly, you get bubba. Be responsible, you get no trouble.
I cannot see why you Americans go cracked whenever you hear of one of us Euro's being careful... I guess it is all that meth lab shit. We had that
here ONCE. Yes, once. Then they realized, meth is imported in this country - not domestically produced. So they chase real criminals, not backyard
experimenters.
Her experimenting is actually encouraged, though many cannot believe this. The BT Young Scientist, while a bit 'tame', is an outlet for many budding
scientists. I have seen coilguns, ballistics experiments and tesla coils there, along with rocketry, and other fun things. All done by young people
who were safe scientists.
Why compromise on your safety? That is one thing I cannot understand. Your safety should be number ONE priority. After that, public relations can be
handled.
If you give a man a match he will be warm for a moment. Set him alight and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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Addon
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He once had a video (deleted...) on Youtube, where he destilled hydrogen cyanide and dropped it directly in sodiumhydroxide solution (-> sodium
cyanide).
May he tried that again and breathed some HCN gas in, which caused the deadly edema.
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entropy51
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| Quote: Originally posted by -=HeX=- |
You may have to worry about neighbours and such, I do not. Therefore, my priority is my own safety.
One neighbour has seen me in gas mask and tyvek, and he assumed I was simply using weedkiller or applying pesticides or something. Another, a farmer,
asked could he borrow some gear when he has to fumigate some outbuildings.
I cannot see why you Americans go cracked whenever you hear of one of us Euro's being careful... I guess it is all that meth lab shit.
Why compromise on your safety? That is one thing I cannot understand. Your safety should be number ONE priority. After that, public relations can be
handled. |
In this country we use fume hoods and good technique. Consequently there is never a need for gas mask and Tyvek suit. There is no compromise
involved.
BTW, the Tyvek won't protect you from the shots fired by your neighbors when "celebrating" Halloween with their firearms.
Better to remain silent and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | BTW, the Tyvek won't protect you from the shots fired by your neighbors when "celebrating" Halloween with their firearms. |
C'mon entropy51, you know everything is possible in the phantasy-world HEX inhabits. . .
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Mildronate
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I had one botlle with hg nitrate and one botle with Hg sulfate in my room. But making HCN in that way like he is not normal
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entropy51
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| Quote: Originally posted by Addon | He once had a video (deleted...) on Youtube, where he destilled hydrogen cyanide and dropped it directly in sodiumhydroxide solution (-> sodium
cyanide).
May he tried that again and breathed some HCN gas in, which caused the deadly edema. |
IIRC Nicodem
specifically warned him (or someone else?) about that.
I don't think a lethal dose of HCN would cause pulmonary edema pre-mortem. You die too quickly. Pulmonary edema is more typical of phosgene and Cl2.
Didn't he also express an interest in making phosgene?
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