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uchiacon
Hazard to Self
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So guys, what was the consensus? Possible or not possible to synthesise picric acid from paracetemol? I got the impression that it wasn't worth it,
but considering aspirin in New Zealand is 6 times more expensive that american aspirin, and paracetemol is cheap, then I would be a better alternative
for me.
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JohnWW
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Yes, I have noticed that in the last two or three years the price of aspirin tablets (mainly under the brand-name Dispirin) in supermarkets in New
Zealand has gone through the roof, in spite of the appreciation of the NZ dollar. At the same time, the other major aspirin brand, Aspro, seems to
have disappeared, so the lack of competition may account for the price hikes. The other salicylate-based painkiller-anti-inflammatory tablets
available in supermarkets, Ibuprofen and Nurofen, have become cheaper than aspirin, in spite of their active ingredients requiring more process steps
than aspirin. Paracetamol seems to have become a bit cheaper here, though, and is now MUCH cheaper than aspirin. So it looks as if New Zealand
consumers are being "ripped off" as regards aspirin, in spite of its being fairly easy to manufacture, which means there cannot be any shortage of the
stuff driving up the price.
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uchiacon
Hazard to Self
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Yeah well I tried to track down a supplier of phenol... supposedly there are regurgitations made by the government regarding the sell of phenol...
which is absolutely fucking whack because I purchased 15L of 99% sulfuric acid a week ago(which does so much more damange than phenol...) and nobody
really cared that a 15yr old was buying it.
The government is also the same reason why aspirin isn't sold in bottles anymore. Supposedly a packet is more childproof, even though a standard
packet of aspirin will probably be able to kill you if swallowed at once, as opposed to a bottle of several hundred tablets.
Also, panadol is about 4 times cheaper and several times more deadly(my mum gets really annoyed when about wusses trying to suicide on panadol come
into the hospital and expect to be saved)
The cheapest aspirin I found was signature range, coming in at $4.30 for 15g of acetylsalicylic acid. 50 tablets of 300mg. I'm not proud about this,
but I did swap a full aspirin container for a full one I'd bought(which I had emptied) and walked out of the store.
So whats the consensus? I would say that aspirin is an impractical way to make TNP in New Zealand(methyl salicylate is another alternative that is
about 1/2 price in equivelent), that the government is trying, and failing, to protect us from ourselves, and that phenol might be also out of the
question, once again due to the government.
If there is anyone in NZ with a more ecomical method, could you please give a hint to what it is. Just as long as its here I suppose I'll just keep
searching. DDNP is a much safer alternative to HMTD...
[Edited on 04-07-09 by uchiacon]
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JohnWW
International Hazard
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Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
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As regards bulk technical-grade or reagent-grade chemicals, you should firstly try large hardware/building supplies stores like Mitre 10 and Bunnings,
and stock and station/farm supplies stores like RD1 or CRT or Wrightsons. For small quantities (smaller than what a speciality chemicals firm like
Hexion, Kempthorne Prosser, or Smith Biolab would sell), you could try local pharmacies, although their unit prices would be higher. Supermarkets have
some less potentially harmful chemicals, like hypochlorite bleach, caustic soda, sodium carbonate and bicarbonate, tartaric and citric acids,
methylated spirits, and dilute acetic acid.
Pharmacies would certainly have methyl salicylate (oil of wintergreen), which is applied topically as an anti-inflammatory and painkiller, and used
together with pine and eucalyptus and peppermint oils in inhalants.
As for phenol, it is possible that a pharmacy may sell small quantities of it. It is used as the disinfectant in "carbolic acid" soaps, so you could
also try any soap manufacturers to see if they could let you have some. Otherwise, you will just have to get a Hazmat hazardous materials handling
certificate (I think the Labor Department issues them), and then get back to Hexion and any other firms which insist on it. Now that you have raised
the matter, I think I will inquire myself about getting such a license.
A possible crude alternative to phenol, for making technical-grade explosives, may be creosote, which is a mixture of mostly o, m, and p-cresols
(methyl phenols), together with small amounts of other substituted phenols such as isomeric xylols and ethyl phenols and methoxyphenols, derived from
the anaerobic pyrolysis of wood or lignite. The stuff would undergo nitration to a mixture of many different substituted nitro-phenols, which would be
just about impossible to separate. However, I think the stuff may come adulterated with methanol and/or water, so you would have to find out about the
composition of any creosote you find; distillation off of any water and methanol in it may be necessary.
[Edited on 23-10-09 by JohnWW]
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uchiacon
Hazard to Self
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John, I don't think hardware stores are going to sell any interesting chemicals, and I only found a handful of pharmacies that do methyl
salicylate(all around $17 for 100ml) and one that might do phenol in 100ml solution of unknown concentration.
These places just don't do anything anymore. Kempthorne prosser closed down about 70 years ago by the way, Hexion wont sell to the public, and smith
biolab refuses to sell anything to anybody but the universities and schools. What chemicals you want in NZ you obtain from industry sources, and lab
suppliers are out of the question. Same goes for universities and schools.
They've just about killed all possible chemistry interest out of school... and this crap about drugs; where there is money to be made there is always
ways to get around any regulation to stop it. Are we ever going to see the same calibre of scientist that we used to see?
[Edited on 04-07-09 by uchiacon]
[Edited on 04-07-09 by uchiacon]
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un0me2
aliced25 sock puppet
Posts: 205
Registered: 3-2-2010
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Here is a procedure where Sodium Nitrite and HCl are added to an Aq. Solution of acetaminophen, to give (N-acetyl)-4-hydroxy-3-nitroaniline. Now we know
that the acetic acid on the amine can be removed rather simply - can we oxidize that to a nitro group?
If so, we'd have 2 of the 3 nitro groups necessary for picric acid, otherwise can we place a nitro-group on that amine using a Sandmeyer Rxn with
Copper Nitrate?
The other alternative is to utilize excess sodium nitrite in the initial reaction to get the dinitrated acetminophen (at a guess, I'm not sure it
would work, but I cannot see why not, to give (N-acetyl)-4-hydroxy-3,5-dinitroaniline), which would have all the N groups in the right place and then
hydrolysis & oxidation to the trinitro compound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniline#Oxidation), permanganate is supposed to work so too monopersulfuric acid.
[Edited on 2-7-2010 by un0me2]
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