Anders Hoveland
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New Ideas, CH3NO2 synth. and more
In my post about 1,2,2 trinitro propane, I describe how to make NitroAcetone from NO2 and acetone (simply bubble NO2 in at ambient temperature) Here
is a way to to turn NitroAcetone into Nitromethane (or dinitromethane);
This can be found on a google search: Formaldehyde oxime <--> nitrosomethane tautomerism.
NH2OH salt can be made from the NitroAcetone by adding moderately concentrated acid. Hydroxylamine then condenses to a trimer with CH2O. This trimer
apparently has equilibrium with CH3NO which can be oxidized to nitromethane, perhaps by dilute H2O2. Or CH3NO would probably be reduced by bisulfite
(see one of my posts towards the end of the topic "ethylene diamine perchlorate") to CH3NHOH. Methyl hydroxylamine. This would form a powerful
perchlorate salt. Or you could bubble in NO2 to make nitro,nitroso methane ONCH2NO2, which upon mild oxidation, would make dinitromethane.
Probably nitroso nitro methane would be reduced by HSO3- , The bisulfite probably will not reduce the nitro, due to its mechanism of reduction (see my
picture in my other post previously described). I think nitromethylene-hydroxylamine would be unstable.
[Edited on 25-6-2010 by Anders Hoveland]
[Edited on 25-6-2010 by Anders Hoveland]
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Sedit
International Hazard
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Try it out let us know how it goes.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Anders Hoveland
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I forgot O2NCH2NHOH would not be stable. It would decompose to HNO2 and [CH2N(OH)]3. The HNO2 might attack the CH2NOH before it trimerized, but I
think the trimer would be resistant to oxidation.
Another idea would be to use the the dimer of CH2CHCHNOH and NO2 to make CH2CHCH(NO)(NO2), which might have an equilibrium with O2NCH2CHCHNO, upon
reduction of this with bisulfite, O2NCH2CHCHNHOH would form, which would then form O2NCH2CH2CH=NOH, which would finally trimerize. However,
O2NCH2CHCHNO could react with nitrogen dioxide to make O2NCH2C(NO2)C(NO2)(NO), and also (NO2)2C(NO2)CH(NO)(NO2) because of the other precursor in
equilibrium. The first of these two, if separated out, would react with bisulfite to make O2NCH2C(NO2)C=NOH and HNO2. the C=NOH group would quickly
trimerize.
I am unsure if anyone is really going to take the time to contemplate/ comment on these rambling thoughts, but perhaps someone will find it useful.
[Edited on 25-6-2010 by Anders Hoveland]
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Sedit
International Hazard
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I would find it useful if you showed me a tried and true working synthesis of this reaction. If that where done I would confirm YOUR results if you
wish with no problem. But chemistry cost money, something I have little of these days and if you wish for others to confirm your reactions your SOL
unless you can show the effort put forth in the lab yourself. Reading is cheep, chemistry is not.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Anders Hoveland
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How much money would you require?
I can give instructions (with references) on how to make the precursors from common chemicals in a grocery store. I could even mail you the benign
precursors.
the trimer
(O2NCH2C(NO2)CNOH)3 would be an energetic compound itself. It would react with NH2OH to make
O2NCH2CH(NO2)C(NOH)NHOH
The perchlorate of this would be even more energetic.
[Edited on 25-6-2010 by Anders Hoveland]
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Sedit
International Hazard
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I have all the materials minus the hydroxylamine and I could just make that from my Nitromethane(I know it sounds back asswards but for the sake of
experimenting it could be done)but this is not the point I was trying to make. I question if you have the resources why not attempt the experiment and
do a writeup on it. You will find it rewarding to successfully produce something and then send us a play by play with yeilds, Mp or Bp, ect....
My fingers are yellow from Nitric acid and my resources are being used for another project at the moment. My suggestion is have at it because lab work
is much more fun then book work.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Anders Hoveland
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An interesting bit of useful first-aid information for concentrated nitric acid burns: After you wash off the acid and neutralize it, gently, but
thoroughly, scrub the wound with cotton dipped in dilute NaOCl bleach until most of the yellow color is wiped off. Then rinse in water again. This
will get rid of some of the irritating oxidized and nitrated proteins that inflame the wound and prevent healing.
I am currently in the Redwoods right now, so experimenting will have to wait.
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Anders Hoveland
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Registered: 15-6-2010
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I prepared N-methyl hydroxylamine, using CH2O solution, NH2OH, and bisulfite. I got the bisulfite at an aquarium supply store, though it is also added
as a preservative in wine. N-methyl hydroxylamine forms a nitrate salt, but I had difficulty drying it. The perchlorate could be dried enough, so
that it could be detonated. A hammer blow would not set it off, but it did vigorously burn after being placed in a flame. A lighter was unable to heat
it enough to ignite.
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