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zthk2011
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BLU-107 Durandal
Any body knows that what the main charge explosive is used in the BLU-107 Durandel runway breaking bomb.
Thanks.
[Edited on 30-9-2009 by zthk2011]
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hissingnoise
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Cyclotol or octol or similar high-brisance composition, probably. . .
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Microtek
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As far as I know, the Durandal first penetrates the surface (the required kinetic energy being attained by the use of a rocket motor) and then
detonates underground in order to produce a large crater.
If this is correct, I would think that a high blast explosive would be more effective than a high brisance one. So, I would guess at a metallized,
relatively insensitive explosive.
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hissingnoise
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Yeah, it had occurred to me that heaving-power too, might be needed in this kind of ordnance.
AFAIK, the durandal is practically obsolete by now. . .
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franklyn
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@hissingnoise
Your conjecture as to explosives is very probably right. Not in current
manufacture is not the same as obsolete. It is currently employed by
many militaries worldwide as well as the US.
Funny you can find almost everything about this 40 year old ordnance
except the filler and content of its component charges.
French Giat Industries Weapon Systems and Ammunitions Division
Durandal , penetration runway demolition bomb , $ 30,000 in 2005
USAF nomenclature BLU-107/B
Engagement Sequence :
Dropped at low altitude it deploys a drag chute to brake its forward motion and swings down to a vertical attitude.
A sensor jettisons the chute and fires a rocket booster to accelerate it into the runway surface where a shaped charge
explodes to penetrate through into the ground. A delayed fuze detonates a secondary warhead underground.
Drop weight 440 pounds , Impact weight 363 pounds
The sequence in action
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m-buvo3dj4
Note the order of charges is reversed in this reference
http://www.forecastinternational.com/Archive/or/vm0170.doc
Detailed information can be had from Jane's , by subscription
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Explosive-Ordnance-Dispo...
http://jeod.janes.com/public/jeod/index.shtml
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hissingnoise
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Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  | Funny you can find almost everything about this 40 year old ordnance
except the filler and content of its component charges. |
There may be no standard fill for the durandal because a number of HEs would seem to fit the bill.
Though not quite obsolete the durandal, requiring a low-altitude run-in, would seem suitable only for attacking lightly-defended targets, and is
falling from favour for this reason. . .
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grndpndr
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | | Quote: Originally posted by franklyn | Funny you can find almost everything about this 40 year old ordnance
except the filler and content of its component charges. |
There may be no standard fill for the durandal because a number of HEs would seem to fit the bill.
Though obsolete from the US the stadpoint durandal, requiring a low-altitude run-in, would seem suitable only for attacking lightly-defended targets,
and is falling from favour for this reason. . . |
obsolescent at the very least,pre GPS etc etc, better results are obtained with far less risk from GPS guided gravity bombs launched from miles away
or in the case of some weapons over the horizon or unmanned aircraft with improved ordnance producing precision placed multiple craters from a single
munition preventing its use by HP military aircraft(fighters)
Propognda films picturing B1s etc making direct flyovers of varius tgts at minimal altitude are just that ,propoganda to demonstrate load carrying
capability.I doubt anthing similar to the munition your talking about has been used in decades in an actual conflict.VN era !Other than the shaped
charge component
an explosive optimized for catering maybe as simple as aluminized AN, even the old 40lb "nitramon" (AN/AL) hand placed combat engineers cratering
charges may still be in inventory.Back OT the though of the US risking a multimillion/billion $ aircraft even on a suspected undefended airport with
munitions that would unnnescessarly risk the platform/pilots not likely under any scenario.Even GPS tail fused delay GP bombs, sc cluster bombs from
altitude miles away should penetrate precisely a reinforced runway and effectivley prevent its use wo heavy equipment and extensive repairs.Various
online civilian defense sites have info on current and older munitions/armaments, plus.Global security IIRC ++
[Edited on 2-10-2009 by grndpndr]
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zthk2011
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Thanks every one. I want to verify that the metallized explosive is the preferred explosive. However, I cannot find any formal literature about this.
In my mind, the metallized may be used as the explosive in the US or Euro and I also agree with that the Durandal will still play an important role
in today's war.
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grndpndr
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Against undefended targets by 2nd world countrys perhaps against 3d world countrys but there no reason for a first world power to risk multimillion
dollar aircraft let alone more expensive pilots.When technology will solve the problem with minimal ,to no risk to the attackers.Common sense military
tactics is obviosly a completely different discipline than chemistry. In 1st/2nd world tech the durandel would be considered obsolete and dangerous
to the attacker.
40-50 yrs ago that tech was state of the art,no longer late 60s however.I would be suprised if not all have been dismantled by the french but of
course there could well be backwaters where this munition still exists.I doubt id be comfortable around munitions of that age however.
[Edited on 18-10-2009 by grndpndr]
[Edited on 18-10-2009 by grndpndr]
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12AX7
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It's not often appreciated that lots of iron bombs were dropped as recently as Desert Storm. Maybe more recently too.
Tim
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grndpndr
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Iron bombs w/GPS guidance if there concerned with high value targets, collateral damage or antiaircraft fire of any sorts like on a
battlefield/airfeld/city. You are correct however that in desert storm 92% of air delivered munitions were dumb bombs mainly due to cost and other
factors.Still the fact remains that high value, well defended targets are/were generally taken out by guided munitions.Iron bombs have thier place
obviously but I would still submit the durandal system is obsolete unless against an undefended target.
Your quite right about the preponderance of dumb bomb usage though my guess is the majority were used against low value,lightly defended military
targets,troops /trucks, using far superior targeting systems than of the past. I was misguided through the mist of the media and miliary making
ass-umptions.Regards All
[Edited on 19-10-2009 by grndpndr]
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JohnWW
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Those "dumb bombs" were left-overs from the Korea and Vietnam Wars/Whores, and possibly World War 2 in some cases. A few of them were retro-fitted
with laser guidance systems before being dropped.
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grndpndr
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Once retrofitted with guidance systems ther no longer dumb bombs but precision guided ordnance.WW2 era bombs GP demolition bombs were designed for ww2
aircraft speeds,bulbous and anything but aerodynamic unsuited for jet aircraft.VN era which were quite likely used up given thier age now are called
LDGP bombs. Low drag general purpose bombs.The difference in shape is very easy to discern.WW2 era ordnace was used to a great extent in korea though
I doubt exhausted as munitions were still being produced full bore up to VJ day in anticipation of invasion so very large stocks were amassed some
used in VN w/o enthusiasm.Theres a munitions disposal site within 12 miles, before it was cleaned up large pieces of very thick bomb casings could be
found(IIRC approx 50% wieght is the iron/steel casing) as well as live although w/o fuses arty shells.Woulda been a gold mine for some one interested
as some are in russia of recycling ww2 UXO of all manner.I rode home with a friends trophy155mm arty shell w/o fuse but full of HE,I knew in my head
it was safe but I gritted my teeth every bump we hit on the gravel road out.LOL
To the inevitable 'friends' who may be monitoring it was over 20 yrs ago an unmarked ,unguarded ,abandoned site,and the shell was turned over to the
authotities when my friend imagined hissing noises issung from the HE shell.He assumed it may have been phosgene or mustard gas.I didnt claim he was a
rhodes scholar.
[Edited on 21-10-2009 by grndpndr]
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franklyn
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Unexploded Legacy
http://news.yahoo.com/massive-wwii-bomb-succesfully-defused-...
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/massive-wwii-bomb-defused-in-ge...
The motherload
http://www.1976design.com/blog/archive/2004/04/18/largest-un...
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franklyn
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How is this for a time capsule
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/28/13523220-homes...
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franklyn
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The hits just keep on coming
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57610571/4000-pound-worl...
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Melmoth
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The so called Blockbusters Bombs, an EOD dream Fitted with up to three fuzes and
the original 4,000 pounds (1,800 kg) version, up to 12,000 pounds (5,400 kg) of Amatol.
And for the BLU-107 hate to disappoint but the warhead's main charge is just 15kg of 'ordinary' TNT
[Edited on 4-11-2013 by Melmoth]
"This species has amused itself to death"
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caterpillar
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I do not know about BLU-107. UK air force during WWII used large bomb, named "tollboy". Its weight was 5443 kg. It contented 2358 of torpex- RDX + TNT
+Al. The battleship Tirpiz was destroyed by these bombs.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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Melmoth
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BLU-107 was referring to the original topic..
The one you mean is Tallboy, not even the biggest, see picture Nr 8
"This species has amused itself to death"
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franklyn
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/decades-later-germans-st...
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franklyn
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http://news.yahoo.com/french-port-closed-demining-team-destr...
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Rosco Bodine
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http://www.theweek.com/articles/603635/american-bombs-are-st...
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careysub
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The Allies dropped about 3 million tons of bombs on Germany. It the average weight of bomb was 500 lb (I think it is more likely to be lower than
higher), then 12 million bombs were dropped. If the dud rates was 25%, then that is 3 million buried bombs; if only 10% (unlikely) is is 1.2 million.
I suppose they must have cleared a fair portion shortly after the war, while cleaning up the mess. Still, if you miss only 20% that is 240,000 to
600,000. They must keep a count of recovered bombs after things got sorted out. I wonder how many they have recovered.
In France they are still recovering artillery shells from WWI (the "iron harvest") on a regular basis.
The discover of these things probably over time follows an exponential decay in rate of recovery, so that some fraction of bombs will remain
undiscovered for a very long time. They will probably still be encountering these on occasion thousands of years from now.
[Edited on 8-2-2016 by careysub]
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Rosco Bodine
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A "blast from the past" takes on a disturbing "new" special dimension of concern when the present time in which that blast from the past eventually
arrives is the here and now. A "delay fuse" of an indefinite period of decades nearing a century (or more) is indeed a disturbing reality....but hey
....who's worried? It certainly provides food for thought. And for the foreseeable future, ordnance disposal technicians, and the undertaker, like
the grocer.... have assured job security.
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Herr Haber
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If my memory serves, the Durandal's were in short supply during operation Desert Storm so the US Air Force made bombs out of old 75mm guns for the
casings. I dont know if these were intended for landing strips like the Durandals initially were or as precursor "bunker buster bombs".
As for clearing WWI ordnance, it's been estimated that about 20-25% will be found per century with that number of course decreasing as time goes. I
have friends living around Verdun who often call the EOD after making "little piles" as they say in the woods. Of course, I consider it insane,
especially considering that about 1/3 of the ordnance of this conflict was chemical. But then, one of them, works looking for leaks in nuclear power
plants so his notion of "risk" is different... And then... he says he'd rather do that himself that letting tourists or kids find them...
As for WW2 ordnance, well... I'm lucky enough to have several friends in Normandy aswell. I've walked on most of D-Day landing beaches and I hope I
dont offend anyone, I'm certainly not trying to minimize the courage of the man that disembarked on the coasts of Normandy that day but the number of
casualties was actually pretty low when you realize the amount of explosives and all kind of traps laid on the coast and the cliffs. The imagination
people put into killing each other makes me shiver.
Today, you can still find 88mm pak and flak shells, 250mm shells set as booby traps, teller mines mines, stock mines, mortars and fill buckets of 20mm
as close as 3km from the "touristic" beaches.
Fortunately, you cant really stumble on these by mistake while walking the beach as the tide prevents you from going to these places without planning.
But whenever I have an idiot asking me if I'm interested in chemistry to make "bombs". I show them some pictures on my phone and ask them: why bother
when you could pick them up from the floor? Literally on the floor: no metal detector needed.
Some places are really scary because army engineers were just tossing the ammo they found over the cliffs in dug out holes before trying to blow up as
much as they could. Which of course, most of the time buried the rest of the ammo under the collapsing cliff. With time and tide, these relics
reappear every now and then. Of course, agricultors do the same thing except for the blowing up part...
One of the friends I have around there is a retired navy EOD now working HSE in a refinery (yes, a chemical engineer also). Every time he goes on a
stroll he finds something new. The good thing is that there is a reward when you call the authorities to alert them about something you've found.
It pays for gasoline and we get to tag along with an expert in history
That said, you should never touch an UXO even if it looks safe, not fired or solid steel (AP). These items were made for war: to kill people and to
trick them into false sense of safety.
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