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entropy51
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Poll: Is there too much illegal drug discussion?
Polverone informed me that only members who have voted are able to see the poll results. There are TEN times as many views as votes. So vote early
and often !!!
To give a little perspective I performed the following Google search.
A Google search of the forum turned up the following hits for a few topics chosen at random. I'm sure that others could come up with a more complete
list of suspicious topics. Each hit appears to be a single page of a topic in some cases, an entire topic in others.
Search Term / Hits
P2P 142
phenylacetone 330
amphetamine 136
methamphetamine 112
meth 324
thc 133
2cb 10
lsd 422
phenylacetic acid 341
cocaine 441
ghb 84
TOTAL HITS 2475
And a search for "hive" gave 333 hits.
[Edit] Several members have pointed out that this half-assed attempt at a survey carries no special significance or accuracy, and I agree with them.
But it kinda sorta answers the question that I had: Is it just a handful of threads or a whole bunch, to use technical terms.
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by entropy51]
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by entropy51]
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Sedit
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You know my vote will be a no. I think one has to take into consideration that many of those threeds are ages old so yes they will have many views
associated with them and the fact that there are only a few threeds focused on them in this entire bord of thousands and thousands of post forces me
to vote no.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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entropy51
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Seidt, what on earth are you talking about when you say: "I think one has to take into consideration that many of those threeds are ages old so yes
they will have many views associated with them " ?
The Google hits are the number of pages that have those words in them, not the number of times they were viewed.
I can find no good way to compute the percentage of pages it represents, since I don't know the number of pages per thread.
Yes, I knew how you would vote. No need to attempt justification.
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by entropy51]
Better to remain silent and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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kclo4
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A lot of times people often reference the hive, rhodium archives, etc when the compounds that the people are really interested in have nothing at all
to do with drugs.
Also consider how many times meth is mentioned in a negative context verses how many times it is mentioned in synthesis. I'm sure there are more
people on this board being accused of being a meth cook, or how horrible these people are destroying the world, etc.
Look at what these terms appear in...
"Because I'm a chemist and not a tweaker or a meth cook"
"Methamphetamine and NI3 aren't the only things that elemental iodine can ..."
"I must've been high on my meth that night. Just kidding. "
""Any well-equipped home lab looks an awful lot like a meth lab to the ..."
I am going to say your numbers are useless since it seems that more then half of these are actually portraying a negative image on drugs, or joking
about it. That would be a good thing for sciencemadness, right?
Also to put the numbers in perspective another way is there to much food related discussion?
Cook: 722
Eat: 503
Smell: 1,540
Taste: 394
Delicious: 173
Nasty: 831
Can't really say that the terms imply the unwanted types of discussion...
also 148416 posts with 2475 drug related ones... 1.6% of the post mention what you've listed. I guess that is pretty high but that is just a mention
of at least one of those terms.
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entropy51
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kclo4, I didn't say it was an absolutely 110% accurate survey. I'm aware that sometimes it is a comment against drugs, but not mostly.
But it's not 2475 POSTS. It's 2475 PAGES. Each page (or sometimes thread) gives a Google hit. My best estimate is perhaps 10-15%, or about an order
of magnitude above your calculation.
But I wasn't asking people to vote based on those numbers alone, or even mostly. Rather on how they felt about the question.
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hissingnoise
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Pardon the rant, but intolerance of social drugs is an anachronism which engenders harm on a global scale. . .
The laws underlying this intolerance are crude tools of corrupt, selfserving politicians who don't actually give a shit about the well-being of
ordinary citzens!
Drugs don't fuck people up in the way anti-drug laws do.
The WOD exists because the people who should have known better looked the other way.
The "Marijuana Tax Act" was itself an underhanded stroke that no seemed to question until it was way too late---it was a continuation of Prohibition
by other means, and it is as dishonest now as it was then. . .
In short, it is the greatest evil of our times and it is now entrenched in society.
I find it sickening that it has been allowed to go on for this length of time.
It comes straight from the dark ages!
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entropy51
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Dear Hissing:
The poll question is not "Are drugs bad for society?"
Thank you for your diatribe. They are always entertaining. Really.
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Polverone
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I think you should take age and context into account when trying assess the extent of the issue.
We did once have an even more relaxed policy. This eventually attracted the wrong sort of member and set up an uncomfortable atmosphere on the forum.
Longtime members who I respect noticed the problem and asked for it to be cleaned up. I agreed that there was a problem and instituted new policies to
maintain an acceptable standard of discourse. Some of the problem was actually not even policy per se but that the moderators became too busy to
police every thread, which I have also tried to combat by encouraging member reports of bad posts and by adding new moderators as needed.
If you exclude results that are actually hits on threads in Detritus, posts that are more than two years old, and posts that aren't actually
soliciting or offering drug related synthetic advice, I think you will find much less drug production talk here than you fear. Google indexes the
forum without regard for evolving policies, so even if I instituted harsher rules today the Google results for this site would still shame you in
front of your colleagues 5 years hence.
I maintain that every search term you have listed can be a topic of scholarly discussion within and without the ranks of professional scientists.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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Formatik
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"Is there too much illegal drug discussion?"
Overall I don't get that impression. Google hits are a crude and poor indicator since they don't account for double, triple, quadruple,etc hits of the
same thread which inflates the numbers, or the pdfs which inflates the figure even more (if you are judging by per thread appearance of terms) where
the pdf might have been in the same thread.
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hissingnoise
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Thanks entropy, your posts make good reading, too. . .
BTW, would it not be better if the poll results were upfront and visible to all?
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turd
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No, but there is way too much flaming and whining about "illegal drug discussion" most of which originates from one mentally ill (opinion, not
offense) person.
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entropy51
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Polverone and Formatik,
I agree that a Google search is not a valid statistical survey. I mostly did the search out of curiosity to see if perhaps my memory was inflating
the number of drug discussions. I thought I might only find a handful of hits, but there were a lot more, for what its worth.
But as I said above, "But I wasn't asking people to vote based on those numbers alone, or even mostly. Rather on how they felt about the question. "
I'm really curious about what the numbers will show. I'm guessing 50% either way, +/- 10%.
I'm also guessing the results will be the same as if the poll had asked (1) are you over or (2) under 40 years old? It's what they call a "surrogate
marker" for age.
Polverone, I think Google scholar will overestimate the number of occurences since I've found it to return multiple hits for a single article, but
maybe it performs more precisely nowadays.
There sure as heck has been a lot published on these compounds, I'll be the first to admit that. I know some of the authors. But I don't see how
scholarly papers reporting research done under DEA permits and NIDA funding has anything to do with some of the near-illiterate threads that see the
light of day on the forum.
Hissing, I don't understand "BTW, would it not be better if the poll results were upfront and visible to all?" Are they only visible to a subset of
us?
Polverone, thanks for allowing and moderating the discussions of the past few days. They generated more heat than light, for sure!
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by entropy51]
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Polverone
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Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  |
There sure as heck has been a lot published on these compounds, I'll be the first to admit that. I know some of the authors. But I don't see how
scholarly papers reporting research done under DEA permits and NIDA funding has anything to do with some of the near-illiterate threads that see the
light of day on the forum.
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The near-illiterate posts have been stamped out for the most part. If you see new ones popping up, report them and they'll rapidly be on the way to
Detritus. Do you dislike the way bad discussions are sent to Detritus? It does mean they linger on the site, to be sure, but I think it offers better
transparency and object lessons than simply deleting posts. The only posts I totally delete as a matter of course are ones from spammers because I
don't want them to get any exposure at all.
Edit: poll results are visible only to people who have voted, which I think is what hissingnoise was referring to.
[Edited on 7-10-2009 by Polverone]
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entropy51
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| Quote: Originally posted by turd | | No, but there is way too much flaming and whining about "illegal drug discussion" most of which originates from one mentally ill (opinion, not
offense) person. |
Congratulations, turd! You managed to flame someone while ranting about too much flaming!
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entropy51
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Polverone, you and I may be thinking of different meanings for near-illiterate. I meant in comparison to the articles that come up on Google Scholar.
But the worst ones are going to Detritus and I think holding them in "quarantine" there is perfectly reasonable, for the reasons you cite. Perhaps
the Search Engine spiders should be denied access to our dark, dank crawlspace under the back porch though. Maybe they are already?
"poll results are visible only to people who have voted"
may be a good thing if it encourages people to vote.
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by entropy51]
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turd
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| Quote: Originally posted by entropy51 | | Quote: Originally posted by turd | | No, but there is way too much flaming and whining about "illegal drug discussion" most of which originates from one mentally ill (opinion, not
offense) person. |
Congratulations, turd! You managed to flame someone while ranting about too much flaming! |
There was no flaming. I can only guess that you are talking about the "mentally ill" part. For me a mentally ill person is in no way worse than a
physically ill person. Would you consider it flaming if I observe that someone has a cold? And I'm quite sure that most people will agree that Sauron
has mental issues, to the point of them being pathological. That's the reason why his flaming never bothered me.
PS: You should get rid of your preconceptions. Neither amphetamines nor mentally ill people are bad per se. But both can cause problems if not handled
with care.
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setback
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Frankly I think your poll is seriously flawed. It is only a little better than the one made by the teenager who assumed we all made acetone peroxide.
Yes, we all know your feelings on the subject, and if we didn't this poll gives us a clear picture. It's easy to cook up a slanted poll.
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setback
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| Quote: Originally posted by turd | | No, but there is way too much flaming and whining about "illegal drug discussion" most of which originates from one mentally ill (opinion, not
offense) person. |
This too, it gives the illusion of a drug problem, sure, but it's almost a page out of the old "reefer madness" book. It really needs to
stop.
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entropy51
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| Quote: Originally posted by setback | Frankly I think your poll is seriously flawed. It is only a little better than the one made by the teenager who assumed we all made acetone peroxide.
Yes, we all know your feelings on the subject, and if we didn't this poll gives us a clear picture. It's easy to cook up a slanted poll.
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Please send me some instructions on cooking (that damn word again) up a slanted poll so that I can do a better job of it next time. Based on the
results so far, I screwed up bigtime!
[Edit] So should have I have asked if we had too little, just enough, or too much drug discussion?
You probably know less about my feelings than you think. But I'm trying to find how others feel. Even you!
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by entropy51]
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setback
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| Quote: |
And I'm quite sure that most people will agree that Sauron has mental issues, to the point of them being pathological. That's the reason why his
flaming never bothered me. |
I think this was why he wasn't banned after all this time. He's a narcissist, it's not exactly an endearing trait, but it's who he is.
| Quote: |
"poll results are visible only to people who have voted" may be a good thing if it encourages people to vote. |
NO, this is exactly why this poll is so flawed. You only have two choices: if I said "yes", then I agree with you (and I surely don't). If I say "no",
that implies I think that we do not have enough drug discussion.
Don't you see how this is a very slanted poll? It's almost something out of fox news.
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hissingnoise
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Mentally ill science; the art and science of amateur experimentalism. . .
I'm gibbering (slobber)!
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by hissingnoise]
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entropy51
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HissingNoise, you stop that right now!
I can't stay mad at everybody for voting against me when I'm laughing out loud.
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Eclectic
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Oh go away....Ban polls on polls
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hissingnoise
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Laughter, one letter short of mayhem!
I'm hoping Sauron will see the funny side too. . .
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Sedit
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One thing I think that would reflect a more accurate pole would be to have the third option of "Don't care". May sound strange at first glance but I
feel that by far would be the most filled position because many could care less and its only a select few that want drug discussion and a select few
that are totaly against it.
PS: as to the question of the threed,
"Is there too much illegal drug discussion? "
The answer is Yes there is now because every one wont shut up about it.
[Edited on 10-7-2009 by Sedit]
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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