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Aurus
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Experimenting with mercury
Hi. I am new here and I was wondering whether any experiments could be conducted with mercury without a fume hood and risk of poisoning. What do you
think?
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woelen
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Depends on what environment you are working in. If you are working in a normal house, then please don't do it. Of course, in a normally equipped lab
you can do experiments with mercury.
The problem is not the metal itself. It is not that toxic and opening a bottle of mercury certainly will not lead to dangerous poisonous levels of
vapor. The real problem is the risk of spilling. Mercury is a very heavy and remarkably mobile liquid, which easily is spilled. If you spill a few ml
of mercury then it breaks up into a bazillion of tiny droplets which will creep into every crack or wrinkle of the floor, the carpet, etc. Cleaning up
is almost impossible and this spill will release its vapor, slowly making you sick. If such a thing happens in your house you could make it
inhabitable and only after a very costly cleaning action by a professional cleaning company, plus replacement of your carpet, wooden floor or whatever
you have, you can live in the house again.
I myself never experiment with metallic mercury, although occasionally I do a small experiment with mercury salts. Although the latter are much more
toxic, there is much less risk of spilling the stuff and contaminating the house in such a way that you cannot live in it anymore.
[Edited on 1-1-09 by woelen]
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Aurus
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Thank you, Woelen, for your comment. It is indeed illuminating. However I live in a country where obtaining any kind of salt is difficult... and I do
not know how to get around this problem.
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woelen
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If you want to experiment with mercury salts, and you have access to nitric acid, you can dissolve some of the metal (e.g. 3 grams) in some nitric
acid, dilute this to 100 ml and use this solution for further experimenting. With this solution, you only need to work with the metal once and when
you use a solution, then there also is no risk of contaminating your area by means of dust.
DO NOT prepare the mercury nitrate solution inside your house. Lots of noxious NO2 are produced, which are bad on their own, but much worse are the
small droplets of acid with dissolved mercury nitrate. The acid, water and NO2 quickly disappear (they evaporate and leave the house within minutes if
ventilated well), but the mercury nitrate remains behind as small dust particles, which settle at the floor, carpet, furniture, etc. This is a very
large risk.
If you want to make mercury nitrate, then do the following OUTSIDE on a windy day:
- take 3 grams of mercury (which is a small blob, only appr. 0.25 ml).
- put the mercury in a 100 ml beaker
- take 15 ml of conc. nitric acid (this is appr. 3 times excess amount)
- pour the acid on the metal
- immediately take a paper tissue and loosely cover the beaker with this paper tissue
The gas will go past the tissue, almost all droplets are captured by the tissue.
At the end, the reaction may go somewhat slow, if this happens, just put the liquid aside for a day, asuring that no kids or animals can access it.
When all mercury has dissolved, the liquid may look green due to dissolved NOx. Carefully heat the liquid. More gas is evolved. Some of the dissolved
NOx goes out of the liquid, but also part of the mercury is oxidized further from the +1 state to the +2 state. When the liquid is kept hot for a few
minutes, then all mercury is present as mercury in the +2 state. Let the liquid cool down and dilute it to 100 ml with distilled water. Now you can
use this liquid relatively safely, but of course you still have to be very careful with the increadibly toxic mercury nitrate.
[Edited on 1-1-09 by woelen]
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Jor
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When you work with metallic mercury, it would be best to work above a plastic containment container, so in case you spill, it will not get on the
ground. Even if you work outside, you should never spill, as that brings mercury in the environment.
Mercury is extremely toxic in the environment. In a study I read that 0,6mg/L Hg killed 50% of all marine life. I can imagine that even 0,1mg/L can be
regarded as severely contaminated water.
Imagine how much water you can contaminated with 3 grams of mercury. Be careful and dispose of the emrcury in a proper way.
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JohnWW
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Mercury salts have been used as fungicides for textiles and wood (although Zn or Cu salts are at least as effective and much less toxic) and
pesticides in the past. They were also once used to dye felt and fur hats various black and red shades (and at the same time act as a fungicide),
before modern azo and aniline dyes became available, with the result that many hatters suffered fom Hg poisoning - hence the phrase "as mad as a
hatter".
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The_Davster
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The density of Hg also makes manipulation of the liquid by conventional means difficult. It can flow out of pipettes, splattering into fine droplets.
Working above a container is essential to catch any spills.
The first time I worked with Hg... I did not know this and made a mess in the fume hood at university.
[Edited on 1-1-09 by The_Davster]
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hissingnoise
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I used to worry that clinical thermometers could break in
a person's mouth, and cause serious poisoning.
I was, apparently, being alarmist.
Its reputation, though, is so bad I'd avoid using it
unless I needed MF for an improvised
blasting cap.
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Aurus
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I do not think I will work with mercury, in the end.
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hissingnoise
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When you fully appreciate the properties of the metal you may reconsider, but you're being wise in the interim.
Given your location, copper might be an appropriate alternative. . .it, too, is an interesting metal. . .
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Jdurg
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Mercury is indeed a nasty metal, but like all chemicals, if worked with responsibly you can easily minimize the dangers. One thing to ALWAYS have on
hand when working with mercury is nicely powdered elemental sulfur. The sulfur will readily bind up the mercury into a solid paste that won't emit
vapor and can be cleaned up. If you work with the metal, as mentioned in a previous post, work in a large plastic container with a thick coating of
sulfur on the bottom of it. This way, if any is spilled, it will "meld" with the sulfur and not emit vapors.
The other week, I had ordered some frozen pizzas from a company in Chicago. The pizzas arrived with a few kg of dry ice. (About 1 kg was left after
shipping). I put the dry ice in some acetone and actually froze some Hg. AMAZING stuff. When it freezes, it's a nice, dense metal that isn't all
too shiny. As it warmed up, it slowly "sweated" mercury and eventually became liquid again. This was ALL done in a tightly sealed glass vial with a
large layer of powdered S underneath it. If the glass broke, I had a containment for it. The glass didn't break, and I had a GREAT little experiment
on my hands.
\"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists of the unmistakable scent of broccoli, and usually
requires wiping afterwards.\"
http://maddox.xmission.com. |
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Hennig Brand
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How toxic is mercury nitrate by skin contact? How about skin contact with a mercury nitrate, nitric acid solution?, say during a mercury fulminate
synthesis. I googled it for a few minutes and found some stuff about "mad hatters". In the articles it mostly talked about how they breathed a lot of
the dust, and ate some quite often (not intentionaly) when they had food (transfer from air and hands, etc I guess). I haven' t seen too much about
skin contact, but admit I haven' t looked really hard. The reason I ask is that last night I was making MF, and when I added the mercury nitrate/HNO3
to the ethanol it was still, but after two seconds or so erupted into a very violent reaction. The solution hopped up out of the beaker, fortunately
95% or more went back in the beaker and kept on reacting, quickly slowing down in the following couple of minutes. A little splash landed on my
pouring hand, and stained it during the eruption. Probably only a few mg of Hg nitrate, but still kind of concerning. I think my HNO3 was too
concentrated. I made it just before I did the reaction. It was watered down to about 90% before doing reaction. It also had quite a bit of dissolved
nitrogen oxides. My ethanol was home made @ 90%+, I don' t think this was the problem though. I have to stop saying that I will be more careful, and
actually be more careful I guess. Anyone willing to admit getting mercury nitrate on them?
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Rich_Insane
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Well crystalline mercury nitrate won't do any harm on the skin itself, but you can inhale it or eat it accidentally. A solution may be worse, but it
depends on the solvent. Something like mercury nitrate/DMSO is quite dangerous, as DMSO penetrates skin, but say, mercury nitrate and water, less so.
A few mg won't be extremely toxic. It won't get you too sick either, but if it continues chronically, then you will get sick. We all probably already
have a few mg of Hg salts in our bodies from the environment anyways.
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woelen
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Mercury nitrate/ethanol also is not that dangerous, the ethanol does not strongly penetrate the skin. If you cleaned the skin very quickly and rinsed
with water and if it only was a small splash, then I would not worry. But repeated accidents of this kind may do harm in the long run. So be more
careful next time and do this outside. Even if the solution does not erupt out of the beaker, you still can get many tiny droplets of
acid/alcohol/water mix which contains mercury(II) salts and the volatile stuff quickly evaporates, but the mercury salt contaminates your living
place!
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turd
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Quote: Originally posted by Jdurg  | | If you work with the metal, as mentioned in a previous post, work in a large plastic container with a thick coating of sulfur on the bottom of it.
This way, if any is spilled, it will "meld" with the sulfur and not emit vapors. |
I'd like to know how long one must grind Hg with an excess of S at room temperature until it is fully converted to HgS. In other words: this whole
bind Hg with S thing sounds a little bit dubious (as in based on superstition) to me.
And please, most of you are seriously exaggerating the dangers of elemental Hg. It's not HgMe2.
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Rich_Insane
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Mercury does form a complex with Sulfur. I believe HgS is cinnabar no? You would have to grind it for three minutes at least, I'd say.
The people here are quite experienced, you should listen to them. We don't want a ban on Mercury sales, because someone was stupid enough to kill
themselves with mercury salts. It is possible to safely handle mercury and mercury compounds. In fact, Mercury is quite safe if handled correctly.
| Quote: |
Mercury even reacts with solid sulfur flakes, which are used in mercury spill kits to absorb mercury vapors (spill kits also use activated charcoal
and powdered zinc) |
Wikipedia
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Formatik
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Mercury even reacts with solid sulfur flakes, which are used in mercury spill kits to absorb mercury vapors (spill kits also use activated
charcoal and powdered zinc)
I've tried this and got nothing. No reaction with zinc dust. None with sulfur flower either. The zinc dust I even mixed around with the Hg
occasionally and let it sit with the mercury for several days and mixing.
It is easy to collect mercury if it is handled and spilled only on a flat surface. In small amounts I'll hold a dropper sideways and then suck up the
drops.
I've also tried other ways to collect it, like trapping it and then freezing it with LN2, but although this worked, the mercury melted very rapidly.
Not worthwile. I have seen recommendations to freeze with dry ice, which don't seem worthwhile.
I personally can only recommend (with simple materials) accumulating the mercury on a flat surface, and then sucking it up sideways with a plastic
dropper that has good suction.
[Edited on 10-8-2009 by Formatik]
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand | | How toxic is mercury nitrate by skin contact? How about skin contact with a mercury nitrate, nitric acid solution?, say during a mercury fulminate
synthesis. |
Why even bother with MF when HMTD, IMO, a superior primary, can be made using hexamine and H2O2 without worrying about being poisoned!
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hodges
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Things sure have changed a lot regarding the perception of mercury safety in 30 years. In 1978, I when I was in 8th grade, I remember we did simple
experiments (such as determining density) with mercury. I remember also a beaker full of mercury at the teacher's desk which the teacher would allow
us to stick a finger in as a reward for correct answers to science questions. We were, however, always cautioned that only the teacher was to pick up
the beaker full of mercury. Supposedly a student had previously picked one up too fast and caused the bottom to break. The point is, I'm sure there
had been plenty of mercury spills in that classroom. I don't think anyone got sick from it. Of course, mercury compounds are a different matter.
Right now, on United Nuclear's site, I see this:
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Special Note: The price of Mercury metal has risen tenfold in the past few months. Due to rapid price fluctuations our quantities on hand are limited.
1 ounce vial: $30.00
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This is the first I had heard of the price of mercury rising so much - has anyone else heard about this? In that case, mercury could be a good
investment  . I have a pound of it which I paid I think $25 for a few years ago.
If an ounce is really worth $30, then my investment is now worth over $400! That certainly beats silver and gold.
Hodges
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12AX7
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Dunno, free prices only up to 2007.
http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/hg/hg.asp
Silver is even only worth $14.50/tr.oz. That would make mercury semiprecious.
Tim
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ammonium isocyanate
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I don't think that united nuclear sells mercury anywhere near its spot price. In fact, The Science Company sells mercury, triple distilled, for 52.95
per 250g, which is WAY less than the price UN charges. And even they probably have a pretty large mark-up.
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Hennig Brand
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I have just been playing with mercury mostly out of curiousity, that and I have just gotten a source who has mercury periodically that has to be
disposed of. I am supposed to pick up a pound or so tommorrow. The bit I used in my MF experiment came from a small switch (~2.75g). I think it is
true that if we took everything by way of warnings seriously today, we would be too terrified to practice chemistry at all. Regardless of how
exaggerated the perceived dangers, mercury is dangerous, but I think my little learning experience won' t cost me too much. To be honest I was a
little nervous at the time.
I normally use HMTD, but have been looking for things more storage stable and with less problematic incompatibilities. I have made a few grams of LA,
twice in the last couple weeks. So far I think I really like this stuff, I guess that is a given. It seems to have all the good points, or more by way
of performance as silver fulminate, yet is much safer to work with. I have made two 5g batches of RDX to go with the LA. I find after dilution with
water to precipitate the RDX, that I have about a 20% solution of HNO3 or so. I used this acid from one batch and made a bunch of lead nitrate. I
think I will make some sodium nitrate next, as I can' t seem to buy it here. This greatly adds to the economy of RDX manufacture via hexamine. Anyway
mercury fulminate does store pretty well I think, even if it isn' t in a league with some of the better performing primaries. I got a little lax.
Thinking MF is simple, but even it has its own unique little pitfalls.
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Rich_Insane
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Guys, I believe Daigger sells 100 g Triple-Distilled Merucry for $25.00 or something. At first I was surprised, but I'm not sure if they charge 150%
of it on shipping.
Mercury is ONLY safe when you handle it correctly. Don't be foolish, don't try to soak your friend's head in it. Actually I remember when I was
younger, I dropped a merucry thermometer, and spent a few hours trying to catch those beads on the slick concrete floor. I'm not dead am I  ?
| Quote: |
I've tried this and got nothing. No reaction with zinc dust. None with sulfur flower either. The zinc dust I even mixed around with the Hg
occasionally and let it sit with the mercury for several days and mixing. |
Hmm, I think it has to be very finely divided, and you have to stir it a bit. But the point is not to form a complex, but to prevent spilled mercury
from vaporizing.
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Formatik
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Quite a few mercury spill advice I've seen implied amalgation occurs readily and can be used to just pick up the mercury itself. Even if the metal
were bound, it's easier to collect it all and then you have it pure if you want to experiment with it. The vapor itself has a very low vapor pressure,
and so shouldn't be worrisome when dealing with small amounts.
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JohnWW
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Mercury does not form an amalgam with iron; I have an old cast-iron bottle that came from a disused mercury mine at Puhipuhi, New Zealand, that was
used to store and transport mercury distilled from cinnabar which occurred in an old hydrothermal siliceous sinter deposit. But it fairly readily
forms amalgams with the likes of zinc, magnesium, copper, silver, gold, lead, tin, bismuth, and aluminium.
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