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CyrusGrey
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The good think about the wiki template is the ability to keep the previous pages and roll it back if needed.
I added a disclaimer page and a safety page, tell me what you think. Feel free to edit it if you think something should be different.
http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=HomeChemistry:G...
http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Safety
[Edited on 9-4-2008 by CyrusGrey]
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woelen
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CyrusGrey
EDIT: Also, we put up on the map page that some of us want to meet other chemists, but we don't have any contact info if somone wants to meet us!
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There is a page on the Wiki, which is especially meant for this purpose:
http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Special:Listuse...
Every user, who registered, is mentioned on this page (it also is accessible through the main page, bottom left menu: special pages, and then select
from the long list which appears the user pages).
Each member can add his/her own description, by simply clicking the name of yourself. You can put anything in there, such as contact info, website
information, main interests, etc. After editing, you can protect your page against anonymous editing.
Woelen and Cyrus Grey already added pages, you can recognize these by the color of the name-link.
[Edited on 10-4-08 by woelen]
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woelen
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I see that already quite some pages are added to the site and I am very happy with that. I myself will add a contribution in the form of descriptions
of common laboratory, but not OTC chemicals, with pictures and descriptions.
I would like to add a few suggestions. In the http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Over_The_Counte... page, the country of availability is mentioned in the line for the chemical. I
would like to see this removed from the line, but in the page, to which the compound name is linking. In the page, people can add the name of
countries and/or states in which they have seen the compound. So, I can add "The Netherlands" and someone else can add the name of the country or
state in which (s)he lives.
I think it would be good to have a reagents category, with subcatechories
1) OTC reagents (we already have this)
2) Photography and pottery grade reagents (this extends the list of available chemicals considerably, but most of these chems must be ordered on-line
or purchased in specialty shops)
3) Common laboratory reagents (these again are harder to obtain, but in the lab, these are quite common, stuff like NaNO2, KBrO3, ...)
4) Rare reagents (these are the very special ones, such as NbCl5, Na2S2O6, RuCl3, NH4ReO4).
Anyone, having a chemical, which fits in a list, then is invited to write a page about it. If possible, a photo is nice, but not necessary.
I write this, in order to streamline our concerted efforts a little bit.
I also made a minor security patch to the site. Anonymous editing is not possible anymore. Only people with a registered and confirmed user
name now can edit pages. Registration is simple, and confirmation also is simple. Confirmation is done by clicking the link, which is in the email,
you receive from homechemistry.org.
[Edited on 10-4-08 by woelen]
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chemkid
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Does anyone else find the HCS page to be very slow? Sciencemadness and most other websites open quickly for me.
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MagicJigPipe
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Just a little bit slower for me but not really so much to where it makes a difference.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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CyrusGrey
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Its acting very slow for me. Though, I am trying to upload new pages. Static pages take about 15 seconds to load and dynamic pages like 'recent
changes' often time out.
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woelen
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Hmmm, strange that it is so slow for you. At the moment, it is not really fast for me, but it takes not more than 5 seconds to load a page, actually
most pages load within 3 seconds. The server is in Danmark, it might be that traffic from Europe to the USA is slow.
But, let's keep an eye on this. If it remains very slow, then I have to contact my hosting provider. This is the same provider as the one, who hosts
all videos of my website. I also wonder, how fast these load in the USA. For me, they load quickly (300+ kByte per second, I have a 3 Mbit/s internet
connection).
I, however, switched on file caching on the server. Maybe it does make a difference. All accesses to static page by non-logged in users, who browse
the site, do not add to the database load. Only logged in users add to the database load from now on.
[Edited on 10-4-08 by woelen]
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MagicJigPipe
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Like I said, I'm in the US and each page loads within 5 seconds no matter which page it is. That is slower than usual but nothing to complain about.
Okay, for me:
Main page: 2.5s
Recent changes: 4s
Speacial Pages: 4s
Current Events: 7s
Hydrochloric Acid OTC Page: 5s
I'm in the mid-south US (Little Rock, AR) and I wouldn't say I'm having any problems. Also, my ISP is really great and I hardly ever have connection
or speed problems. I always get an average D/L speed of at least 300kb/s, often faster. (My house is literally 1000 feet from the "DSL station".)
Woelen, how can I upload an MSDS to the site (PDF) to where people can download it? I have the MSDS on my computer but I can't find a working link
for it online.
[Edited on 4-10-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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chemkid
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I guess it was just that day, because now the site is working just fine. Next question: Does anyone know how to add a bunch of pages to a category at
a time with out having to click on and edit each one?
Chemkid
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CyrusGrey
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Since the category itself doesn't contain code specifying what pages are in it, I think its doubtful that you can edit the category page to add pages
to it.
I added the pages to the organic or inorganic categories when I cleaned them up a bit. I think it would clutter up the category link bar at the bottom
of the page if we added pages to more categories than we already have, though.
Does anyone have any ideas on how we could involve more people on the forums here in editing pages?
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12AX7
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CyrusGrey
Does anyone have any ideas on how we could involve more people on the forums here in editing pages? |
*Ears perk up* (so to speak)
I'm plenty fine at writing pages, what style are you using?
(I prefer plain, hand-typed HTML 4.01 Transitional, as one might guess from my own content. )
Tim
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MagicJigPipe
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Well, it's not HTML but it has some similarities. I used to be pretty "fluent" in HTML and I like the Wiki "language".
Anyway, go see for yourself. Type up some pages and link them to your site if you wish.
http://www.homechemistry.org
[Edited on 4-12-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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CyrusGrey
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12AX7:
I just posted an announcement with a proposition for contributing members in the Misc. forum.
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Saerynide
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I havent read through every page of this thread yet, but I was wondering, are we sure the OTC page is really a good idea?
I feel like it might just make things even harder for us to acquire in the future (or companies might add more adulturants), as LEOs catch on to the
fact that we know (gasp!) how to obtain HCl or I2 or whatever. Seeing that in now, some stores wont sell you 98% H2SO4 drain cleaner anymore...
I realize that all the extraction info is for free everywhere on the net anyways (like here), but maybe concentrating it all and advertising it like
that might further promote more kewls to blow themselves up, which wont be good for us 
[Edited on 4/13/2008 by Saerynide]
[Edited on 4/13/2008 by Saerynide]
"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to...
satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
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MagicJigPipe
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That's an age old argument. IMO it is already moot. LEOs are aware of all this stuff. The idea is that since we don't advocate illegal activities
the harmful affects should be reduced.
Restriction of these substances is going to happen anyway so we might as well help out our fellow home chemists before they disappear completely.
Like I've been saying. If you have the money, stock up on chemicals NOW. Chemicals first, then glassware. That's why I thought my thread on
chemicals to stock up on would be a good way to determine which ones are worthy of monetary investment.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Saerynide
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Unfortunately, stocking up for me is difficult at the current situation . As a
college student, I have rather limited funds, and even more limitted storage space (and summer storage costs an arm and a leg, as it is charged by weight and not volume!  )
My room is already loaded with glass - so much that my goldfishes live in my dessicator  My housemate asked me why the sudden influx of glass, and I said I must stock up before the war on drugs wipes out all glass from the
face of north america
"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to...
satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
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MagicJigPipe
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Understandable. Do you work? Would you like to devote some free time to HCS?
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Saerynide
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I made quite some moolah last semester but I spent most of it on travelling during breaks, and now I am researching for credit (must improve gpa), so
no more $$$ coming in
I would definately write an article or two, but I must wait til the week is over, since I have midterms this week
"Microsoft reserves the right at all times to monitor communications on the Service and disclose any information Microsoft deems necessary to...
satisfy any applicable law, regulation or legal process"
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CyrusGrey
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With the possibility of a mixture of more advanced chemistry being mixed with the beginner chemistry, I would propose that this is a good time to
impliment something like Woelen suggested earlier in the thread: a rating system for the difficult of an experiment.
Here is what I had in mind:
reagents:
1 jar - chemicals that can be picked up locally
2 jars - chemicals that are easy to make or extract
3 jars - chemicals that are hard to make or extract or must be ordered
4 jars - rare chemicals
technique:
1 goggle - a good experiment for the absolute beginner
2 goggles - requires basic lab experience / basic concept understanding
3 goggles - requires intermediate lab experience or understanding of more difficult concepts
4 goggles - this lab would be dangerous without a great deal of lab experience
equipment:
1 flask - can be done with jars and cups and the things you find in most kitchens
2 flasks - requires basic flasks, stoppers, test tubes
3 flasks - requires more advanced things like distillation setups or ground glass connections
4 flasks - requires advanced equipment like furnaces, catylist tubes etc.
These would go in several places: all of the detailed articles, any experiment pages we put up in the future, pages with extractions from OTC
products, and pages on the synthesis of reagents.
Unfortunatly I have horrible skills with computer based art programs and somewhat poor art skills in general, so all of my attempts at little jars and
googles were not recognizable as what they were intended to be. So unless somone with better art skills would make us something better, I have made
yellow, blue and red stars. Tell me what you think.
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12AX7
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CyrusGrey
Tell me what you think. |
Well obviously(?), you don't save as .JPG. I can see the quantization error from here! You use .GIF or .PNG for line drawings, at a noticable size
savings to boot: your 2.6k JPG would be more like 500 bytes, if that. No, not a large savings on this image, but a multistep reaction diagram from
ChemDraw that takes up the better part of a screen might weigh in at 10kB GIF, >20kB (with ugly artifacts) as JPG. Still not much, but over
thousands of images, it adds up -- plus, there are still 56k dial-up users out there!
HTH, in general. This certainly has nothing to do with your stars themselves, which look quite starry.
Edit: Registered myself on the Wiki. Going through pages, it looks like a lot of photographs are terrible: for instance, the hypochlorite Pool Shock
product is in complete darkness. As on Wikipedia, a more detailed image of the material itself might be provided. For instance, I can't tell (from
the same picture) what shape the product is, beyond a generally granular white solid. I recall my calcium hypochlorite is granular, kind of
flattened.
I'm fine at taking photographs, but I don't really have a good place to take them. The plywood table is kind of tacky (although I suppose one could
argue it illustrates the "hominess" of the website!).
It will take a keen eye to minimize spelling and grammar mistakes. Forgive the finger-pointing, but Woelen seems to use an excess of commas for
instance.
Ok, I'm done being a bitch this evening...
Tim
[Edited on 4-14-2008 by 12AX7]
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ScienceGeek
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I also find it very important to use good, accurate and in focus images on HC.org. Can't you just place out some regular paper or something and
make yourself a little studio? It looks nice and sterile and like a lab...
CyrusGrey: I like your stars (they are indeed starry), but: I would rather like the colors (top to bottom): green, yellow and red.
[Edited on 14-4-2008 by ScienceGeek]
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MagicJigPipe
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Is there a problem with my pictures? I really don't put anything in my pictures except for the product and possibly a sample. Forget about
backgrounds. I cut all of that stuff out and just leave the product.
I can fix grammatical errors. There are some but it won't be that hard. I suppose I will start on that tomorrow.
[Edited on 4-14-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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woelen
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If someone is willing to correct my grammatical error, then that would be very nice. English is not my mother's tongue, so if someone finds errors,
please correct them.
I am quite fine at making pictures, and I plan to upload pictures of many reagents, some of them I donate from my website, others will be new
pictures. It indeed is VERY important to have in-focus images, and have good lighting conditions. Too dark images are not good, very yellow images
(made under tungsten light conditions) also are not good. Either use a filter correction (most digcams have an option for color correction) or work in
daylight.
I actually like the idea of the pictures, uploaded by Cyrus Grey. They show the container, besides the chemical. This is a good thing for OTC
chemicals. Sadly, doing such a thing for EU-based countries hardly is worth the effort. There are such great differences in the EU, e.g. in the
Netherlands, Germany and Belgium, which are neighbouring countries, the containers look completely different, and there also is quite a big difference
in what is OTC in one country and the other.
For making pictures from reagents, try to use an as small as possible aperture opening on your camera. This makes the depth of sharpness area larger.
If this results in the need for long exposure times (and hence the problem of getting motion blur due to shaky hands) then you need to use a stand for
your camera. Many of the pictures on my website are made with exposure times well over 0.1 second, but they still look sharp. So, it is posisble.
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CyrusGrey
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Sorry my pictures are so bad. I was doing this quickly, as to get something on the website as an incentive for people to add more. Secondly I do not
have a digital camera of my own, I was left one with an almost dead battery and no charger so no flash. They are in JPG because thats what this camera
saves in, I'll remember to convert them in the future.
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woelen
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Your pictures are not bad, actually, I am quite happy with your efforts. Most important is that they show the container, so that people can recognize
these when they go out shopping.
The .jpg image format also is quite well for this purpose, and I don't see why this should be different. Actually, virtually all of the images on my
website are JPG images. What can be done, however, with JPG is a lot of tuning. You can have the images compressed, without sacrificing too much of
image quality.
Btw, the star-system seems good to me. If getting stars on the site is difficult, then plain text also is OK. With each experiment you can add a few
lines like this:
- reagents: ++++
- procedure : ++
- equipment: +++
Here, ++++ means most advanced level, +++ is quite advanced, ++ is basic, + is OTC
E.g. for glassware:
+: Jars, beakers from kitchen
++: Basic glass ware like test tubes, erlenmeyers, and some simple rubber tubing (e.g. for aquariums) and stoppers
+++: Distillation setup, more complicated coolers, refluxers, etc.
++++: Complex setups with multiple receivers, all kinds of custommade tubing, metal-soldered tubing. An example of this is the SO3-page of len1.
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