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niggaknow
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The Chemical Closet
This company sent me a link to their website here
http://www.thechemicalcloset.co.uk/
You can see in their list of chemicals here
http://www.thechemicalcloset.co.uk/store.php?crn=205&sta...
that it includes:
Anhydrous Ammonia, Ephedrine, Iodine Resublimed Crystal (500 grams), Hexamine Reagent, Methylamine Hydrochloride, Phenylacetic Acid,
Phenylpropanolamine Hydrochloride, Piperidine, Red Phosphorus and Safrole
This looks like a sting operation. Has anyone else gotten emails from them?
[Edited on 12-3-2008 by niggaknow]
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kilowatt
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This is a sting operation. I believe this was concluded in the KNO3.com thread. If you buy from them, you will be promptly raided and arrested.
The mind cannot decide the truth; it can only find the truth.
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pantone159
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I don't know of any proof that they are a sting, but that is sure what I would bet on. After seeing the trouble that the KNO3 owners got into, and
for something much less blatant than TCC, I find it hard to believe that somebody else would really start such a shop.
That leaves two options by my calculations:
1) It is a scam, which will take your $ and send you nothing, or
2) It is a sting.
Also - Somewhere else on this site, somebody posted a comment that the name that TCC is registered to ('James Porter') was the false name used in
investigating KNO3. (But no link to substantiate that this false name was used in the KNO3 case.)
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=7127&a...
| Quote: |
Brian Howes posted pdf of the federal indictment. Most interesting was the fake name used by Arizona detective.. James Porter,, which is also name of
registree for www.thechemicalcloset.uk.co and the site traces to IP in Arizona.
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ScienceGeek
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The "Potassium Permanganate" they sell does not look like KMnO4 to me...
See Here
[Edited on 12-3-2008 by ScienceGeek]
[Edited on 12-3-2008 by ScienceGeek]
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MagicJigPipe
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You're right. You'd think it would look darker than that (and not like a white solid). This seems to point towards a scam/sting operation when they
just fill their bottles with NaCl and take a picture (that's what it looks like).
Not to mention 80% of their chemicals are listed in the US (a huge percentage list 1).
I just don't understand how anyone (in the US or UK) would be dumb enough to buy anything like iodine, ephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, red phosphorus,
(hypo)phosphorus acid, anhydrous ammonia or methylamine HCl.
Apparently, The Chemical Closet (TCC) has been sending emails out to several members of this board. Almost makes you wonder if they used this forum
for their mailing list.
[Edited on 12-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kilowatt
This is a sting operation. I believe this was concluded in the KNO3.com thread. If you buy from them, you will be promptly raided and arrested.
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Really - do you know someone this has happened too or are you presenting your opinion?
Joe
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evil_lurker
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Personally I think the jury is out on the motives behind the site... hell for all I know it could actually be legit.
But any idiot can clearly see the site is geared toward being a supplier of raw ingredients for methamphetamine and ectasy production.
And that alone should set off serious warning bells to any person who might be interested in purchasing reagents... or more accurately precursors...
from the site.
Its been my experience that when something is too good to be true it usually is.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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ScienceGeek
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They're basically saying" Everything you need to cook some meth"
Actually made me smile to see the "Best Seller" list:
Heavy Duty Boiling Flasks Round Bottoms Short Necks - 1000ml
Hydrocloric Acid
Ammonia, Anhydrous
Graduated Ehrlenmeyer Flasks, Wide-Mouths - 1000ml
Red Phosphorus, Amorphous (500 grams)
Sodium Hydroxide
Ephedrine Hydrochloride (500g)
For hose of you who watch "Breaking Bad", the "Heavy Duty Boiling Flask" has GOT to be intentional! 
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MagicJigPipe
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Hahaha, yeah. I think that show is gonna start a trend of wannabe meth cooks getting "ideas" from the show. It seems like a funny coincidence that
they would be advertising that particular kind of flask right around this time, though.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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pantone159
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
Apparently, The Chemical Closet (TCC) has been sending emails out to several members of this board. |
That is the part that disturbs me. How are they getting the addresses??? That is very fishy.
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evil_lurker
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Actually those are the only flasks I will buy.
So called "heavy duty" flasks are a real term used by glassware manufactures long before Breaking Bad.
They are labeled as such due to them having walls that are approx 30% than "standard duty" flasks.
Furthermore, flasks come in both long neck and short necks, and round bottoms and flat bottoms.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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woelen
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I'm not sure its a scam. Someone in the KNO3 thread posted a message that he ordered some chemicals from this company and that he received these
chemicals without problems (yet).
Even if it is not a sting operation, I would stay far away from this. If it is not a sting operation, then it will be busted in the near future and
from their administration the LE-agencies will find the addresses of the customers of this company.
Another reason for staying away from them are their prices. They are absurd and I have sources for most of their chems (except the ephedrine, saffrole
and some of the other organics) which sell at 20% of the price, asked by the chemical closet.
Btw, up to now I did not receive an email from them. It might be an interesting exercise to find out who receive emails. If only US-based members
receive emails, then that is interesting info as well.
[Edited on 13-3-08 by woelen]
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theobromacacao
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I received an email from them a couple of days ago, although live in the UK. I had a quick look at their site out of interest, and did quite like the
idea of easily obtaining red P (not easy, even though I have a business address I can use). However, when looking at the site further, I became
suspicious due to some of the chemicals listed and the fact that the only apparatus they sell is flasks, condensers and heaters, just like other
people have mentioned. It also caught my eye that the only way of contacting them is by email or mobile. I'll manage without the P for now (apart
from the small sample in my element collection)!
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S.C. Wack
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| Quote: | Originally posted by joeflsts
Really - do you know someone this has happened too or are you presenting your opinion? |
"On Saturday, December 1, 2007 I briefed officers on the execution of the controlled delivery and search warrant...I explained to Jeff Scheidemantel
that STC-HIDTA had become involved in an investigation regarding him possibly manufacturing methamphetamine as a result of an interdiction effort
after he attempted to import red phosphorus into the United States. Jeff Scheidermantel told me he ordered the smallest quantity of red phosphorus the
company offered from a website in the United Kingdom called, the chemical closet for $88.00."
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MagicJigPipe
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You see that! If this is, in fact true, it's disturbing. Simply importing a "small" amount of red phosphorus into the US is enough for a controlled
delivery/search warrant? Oh my god! I am utterly appalled! Nauseated! I almost projectile vomited onto my laptop in disgust!
Let us direct this vomit into the mouth of the oppressive LE machine in the US! 
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by S.C. Wack
| Quote: | Originally posted by joeflsts
Really - do you know someone this has happened too or are you presenting your opinion? |
"On Saturday, December 1, 2007 I briefed officers on the execution of the controlled delivery and search warrant...I explained to Jeff Scheidemantel
that STC-HIDTA had become involved in an investigation regarding him possibly manufacturing methamphetamine as a result of an interdiction effort
after he attempted to import red phosphorus into the United States. Jeff Scheidermantel told me he ordered the smallest quantity of red phosphorus the
company offered from a website in the United Kingdom called, the chemical closet for $88.00." |
Can you send me the link to this news article? I'm still not sure if this tells me that The Chemical Closet reported him, which they could do since
he bought an banned substance in the US, or if this is just proof that Jeff Scheidermantel is a complete dumbass.
Joe
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
You see that! If this is, in fact true, it's disturbing. Simply importing a "small" amount of red phosphorus into the US is enough for a controlled
delivery/search warrant? Oh my god! I am utterly appalled! Nauseated! I almost projectile vomited onto my laptop in disgust!
Let us direct this vomit into the mouth of the oppressive LE machine in the US! |
What is the threshold amount for Red P? You do realize that according the their site the "smallest" amount is 500 grams right? How much dope do you
suppose 500g will produce?
Joe
joe
[Edited on 13-3-2008 by joeflsts]
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MagicJigPipe
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"How much dope do you suppose 500g will produce?"
A quick estimate? Let's say 2g of RP to reduce 1g of (pseudo)ephedrine, so 250g (1/2lb or 8oz) (I know this is extremely rough) of methamphetamine.
Assuming a low price of $50/g when sold by the gram that's about $12,500 worth. Not bad if you're into that sort of thing.
The only problem with that is finding that much ephedrine... Oh wait! The Chemical Closet has it! Ha!
Regardless of whether or not TCC turns people in, they (TCC) and the people that buy anything from them (except for maybe HCl, CHCl3 or NH4NO3) are
mentally diminished in my eyes.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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microcosmicus
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@S.C.Wack What is the source of the quote you posted? Is this a hypothetical example
or a real incident?
@joeoflists and MagicJigPipe If someone gets caught buying the P through the mail, the
prosecutor will do a calculation like what you did, and charge the person with conspiracy to
cook 250g of meth. Alright, they would likely need to show some other chemicals. but
should a hapless home chemist order from these folks, I'm sure they'll find enough other
chemicals and apparatus on his shelf which could be used to cook meth to
convince a jury that the defendant was planning to make meth but they caught him before
he got the rest of the ingredients. On top of that, they will add some charges pertaining
to use of mail in an illegal activity and charges having to do with imports.
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by microcosmicus
@S.C.Wack What is the source of the quote you posted? Is this a hypothetical example
or a real incident?
@joeoflists and MagicJigPipe If someone gets caught buying the P through the mail, the
prosecutor will do a calculation like what you did, and charge the person with conspiracy to
cook 250g of meth. Alright, they would likely need to show some other chemicals. but
should a hapless home chemist order from these folks, I'm sure they'll find enough other
chemicals and apparatus on his shelf which could be used to cook meth to
convince a jury that the defendant was planning to make meth but they caught him before
he got the rest of the ingredients. On top of that, they will add some charges pertaining
to use of mail in an illegal activity and charges having to do with imports. |
Anyone caught buying a list 1 chemical deserves exactly what they get. Good post.
Joe
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MagicJigPipe
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Oh no you didn't girlfriend! Ugh!
Fuck that shit! I'm sorry but no other group of words could express how I feel about that comment.
That's just bullshit.
If you have a decent home lab, you probably have at least one list 1 chemical in your possession right now. How dare you say that ANYONE ordering a
list 1 chemical deserves "what they get".
Errr... 
[Edited on 13-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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not_important
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http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1310/1310_02.htm...
(1) Anthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts (many uses, include easy demo of benzyne)
(2) Benzyl cyanide (simplest aromatic nitrile)
(6) N-Acetylanthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts (see #1)
(8) Phenylacetic acid, its esters, and its salts (a bit problematic, rose and honey scents)
(10) Piperidine and its salts (some uses as a secondary amine)
(13) Methylamine and its salts (simpest amine, a classic)
(14) Ethylamine and its salts
(15) Propionic anhydride (if you're making its esters or amides, useful)
(21) Hydriodic Acid (a lot of uses in inorganic, organic, and photo chemistry)
(22) Benzaldehyde (simplest aromatic aldehyde, dilute solution is synthetic almond 'extract')
(23) Nitroethane
(25) Red Phosphorus (pyro uses, chem uses, let's outlaw an element)
(26) White phosphorus
(27) Hypophosphorous acid and its salts (good reducing agent, usedmany places)
(29) Iodine (argh...)
There are a couplr of organics that are the stock ones for "we've this new reaction, let's throw a lot of substrates at it"; maybe a little easier to
argue about. maybe.
and list II
(1) Acetic anhydride
(2) Acetone
(3) Benzyl chloride
(4) Ethyl ether
(5) Potassium permanganate
(6) 2-Butanone (or Methyl Ethyl Ketone or MEK)
(7) Toluene
(8) Hydrochloric acid (including anhydrous hydrogen chloride)
(9) Sulfuric acid
(10) Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIBK)
(12)Sodium Permanganate
Got any of those? Got allergies? Or a neighbor who doesn't like you? Badmouth the new US President next year? Boy, locking you up on suspicion of
doing bad things. Proof? You posses chemicals on those list, the DEA says there is no legitimate home or amateur use for most of them.
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MagicJigPipe
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I'm almost certain this is the first time in history that a govt. has banned or heavily regulated 2 non-radioactive, non-precious elements. I mean,
it just says iodine so could that be construed to mean all ions of I? I-? I3-? My prediction is that iodine ions (especially I-) are next.
It's a sign of the times people.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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not_important
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| Quote: | | My prediction is that iodine ions (especially I-) are next. |
I believe Len said that they were just about so in Oz.
[Edited on 14-3-2008 by not_important]
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microcosmicus
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Over and above whether one thinks amphetamines should be legal or
illegal, over and above considerations of what this is doing to home
chemistry, even to science in general, there is the troubling issue that
the this approach to enforcing the law via proscribing chemicals perverts
basic, well established legal principles. Namely, to prove a crime, especially
an attempted crime, one is expected to demonstrate means, motive and
opportunity. Here, however, means alone are being propounded as sufficient.
Therefore, It is one thing to say "Anyone caught cooking meth deserves
exactly what they get.." and quite another to say "Anyone caught buying a
list 1 chemical deserves exactly what they get.". To illustrate, suppose that
someone were in contact with known drug dealers, were actively swimming
around cook listservers looking for information, had only chemicals
and apparatus related to meth cookery in his lab, and got caught ordering
phosphorous. In that case, I think most of us would agree that this person
was trying to cook meth. However, if somebody else happened to order
phosphorous, but also had a varied supply of chemicals one would expect in
a chemical laboratory on theshelf and there was no evidence linking him to
drug dealers or cooks. I would have a lot of reasonable doubts that this person
was cooking drugs and think he should be acquitted. Ordinarily, conspiracy
cases are hard to prove but, in the zeal to enforce this law on drugs, the
safeguards have been set aside to make convicting easy. This is particularly the
case for Texas law.
To underscore how lopsided this is, let us apply the same standard to a
different situation, bike stealing. Suppose that someone happened to
spend a lot of time hanging around bike racks, was seen in a chop
shop, and got caught after picking up a bolt cutter from the hardware
store and heading towards a bike rack at a time when there were
few people around. Under those circumstances, a good case could
be made that that person intended to steal a bike and would have
carried through with his plan had he not been stopped. However,
it would be a quite a different matter if someone were accused
solely on the basis of owning a boltcutter and picks with no evidence
to indicate that that person was preparing to put them to use in theivery.
As for predictions, I think Cl2 is next. Maybe I'll say more about this later,
but the sense I get is that the focus of attention of the feds has shifted from
drug dealers to terrorists --- in particular, think of Operation Green
Cloud. As for iodine, I would not be surprised if, in a few years, once
the tightening on ephedrine runs the cooks out of business, lobbying
from horse breeders and the like will lead to the restrictions on I2 being
lifted to what they were a year ago. However, if things stay their
current course, this may be little cause for rejoicing as other things we
now take for granted could be banned --- maybe possession of a chlorate
cell will constitute proof that one is a terrorist improvising explosives,
for instance. Of course, P is equally well suited for incendiary devices,
so fat chance of seeing it legalized. As far as elements go, in the
thread on the DHS list, some people mentioned that Ge is
being watched.
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