| Pages:
1
2
3 |
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
Old Chemistry Lab Manual
I have a 1923 high school chemistry laboratory manual, "Laboratory Studies in Chemistry," by Robert H. Bradbury. I frequently enjoy perusing it.
It is amazing what experiments and lack of safety precautions were in place at that time. (A time before the nanny state, when people were
responsible for their own actions.)
For example, Exercise 99 is "HYDROGEN FLUORIDE." In this experiment HF is generated by moistening 2 mL of fluorspar with con H2SO4 and then gently
warming it with a small flame. There is no mention of hazards or use of a hood. The experiment goes on to ask the student to etch a glass plate
covered with a paraffin film, exposing some words written with a pin.
Exercise 54 is "CYANIDE PROCESS FOR EXTRACTING GOLD." Here the student dissolves gold leaf in 2% KCN. There is a single warning: "CAUTION.
Potassium cyanide is intensely poisonous."
In another experiment the student makes his own nitric acid, and in another, chlorine.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
bio2
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
Registered: 15-1-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
We've come a long way since those days mostly
for naught.
Even in the '60's ninth graders were using mercuric chloride, titanium tetrachloride, sodium peroxide etc. in high school lab.
Nowadays if a kid were to open a bottle
of benzene in chemistry class they would be terrified of contracting cancer, but sadly it's probably no longer allowed, yet NaF added to the water
supply and
thimerisol in vaccines is "good" for you.
A few years ago at work a technician dropped a mercury
thermometer in the parking lot (it broke). The company safety man was summoned and before it was all over
the states hazmat team arrived, in full regalia, to
dig out the asphalt and dirt in a five car radius.
Everyone that wasn't laughing must have felt real safe that day.
|
|
|
Sobrero
Harmless
Posts: 21
Registered: 20-5-2006
Location: Belgium
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lifting my skinny fists like antennas to heaven
|
|
Great  . I love those old laboratory manuals too! This remembers me I found one
dating back from the 40's; it is from the first year of civil engineering at the university of Leuven (Belgium):
- A 'recommendations' paragraph at the beginning:
"1. Arrive at the right hour. 2. Undertake all the experiments and ONLY the indicated experiments. 3. Take care of the precautionary measures so as to
avoid explosions, sputterings, and other accidents. 4. No solids, strong bases, strong acids in the sink. 5. Check the apparatus before the practicum.
Clean the apparatus afterwards and clean the table. 6. Silence and calm - don't smoke.
- Absolutely no hazards mentioned at the chlorine synthesis from manganese dioxyde and hydrochloric acid. Let alone a fume hood!
- Idem for the phospine (!) production from white phosphorus and potassium hydroxide! Damn!
- Lots of arsenicum related experiments: arsine AsH3, arsenic anhydride, arsenicum(III) sulphide,... and the ONLY warning is one at the cacodyl (!)
synthesis:
"As soon as the disgusting smell of cacodyloxyde is noticed, the heating should be discontinued due to the toxicity of the gas".
- That HF-experiment is present too. No mention indeed of a fume hood. The only safety related sentence was the very last one of the paragraph: 'The
HF vapours should not be inhaled; the aquous solution of HF causes painful wounds which heal very slowly'. 
- And wow, those guys love KCN! Forming of KCN from chloroforum, for Cyane production, HCN production, cyanic acid, you call it. Perhaps you won't
believe me but... not one warning AT ALL!
- and lots more...
This can't be true! I think I may assume that the teacher gave them some, er, additional info, otherwise my grand uncle wouldn't have survived his
studies ^^.
[Edite le 18-12-2007 par Sobrero]
[Edite le 18-12-2007 par Sobrero]
"There exists a world. In terms of probability, this borders on the impossible." (Jostein Gaarder)
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
Another lover of old manuals!
I know you Magpie, have seen the Norris book in the library that I scanned a long time ago(and Polverone OCRd). That is the oldest manual that I am
posession of, and I own several from the 50s/60s, and many more from between now and then, the more recent ones being far less usefull and interesting
than the older ones. The old manuals are usually intended for indroductory level courses, yet today the experiments there are more advanced than what
I have done in my university's so called 'advanced organic chemistry' courses.
Another book I absolutely love is 'Chemical Recreations' Available on the ftps, it is a book from the 1850s aimed at advanced students to preform the
experiments at home, and it has such jems as distilling white phosphorus.
[Edited on 18-12-2007 by The_Davster]
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That sounds like valuable ingformation, hard to find in modern practical chemistry or laboratory books. Can you scan that 1923 book, "Laboratory
Studies in Chemistry," by Robert H. Bradbury, and upload it for us, please, Magpie?
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
JohnWW, I would be happy to if I had a scanner. Say, that sounds like a good item to put on my Christmas list! 
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
Xenoid
National Hazard
Posts: 775
Registered: 14-6-2007
Location: Springs Junction, New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: Comfortably Numb
|
|
Victorian Experimental Chemistry
I'll throw "A Young Man's Book of Amusement" into the brew, it's definitely a "must have" ...
http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/ymboa/ymboa.html
This wonderful book was published in 1854 and within its 384 pages are Gems of Victorian Science.
This is part of the extremely entertaining Lateral Science site;
http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/index.html
If you haven't already visited this site, you should. Many Victorian accomplishments have gone un-noted, especially those of the little known
scientist Ernest Glitch...
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
bio2 ,
You mention thimerosol ......( merthiolate )
and there was another related compound merbromin
(mercurochrome) that was a lot more "ouchless" on
application to an open cut or abrasion .
Those two harken back to the days of pink stained
skin around scrapes and cuts , the days before
widespread use of antibiotics has replaced such "dangerous" antiseptics so we can have
more resistant strains of flesh eating bacteria as
the more ecofriendly alternative to such toxic antiseptics .
The present information saying those antiseptics were
ineffective is horse shit IMO . They were effective and also
were broad spectrum , killing with residual effect not
only bacteria , but fungi and virus , even warts !
Yes that was the stuff that was good for what ails you
And new skin would always grow around the area ,
a week or so after the old skin just sort of crumbled and fell off in the aftermath . And nowadays people pay big money for a chemical peel .
Iodine tincture and betadine were two other antiseptics
which left a yellow brown stain .
Sulfa (sulfanilamide) powder was another thing you see no more .
An effective ointment , maybe still around , and the best thing for burns was Furacin , ( nitrofurazone ? )
I have actually had wounds sutured using a cocaine local
squirted in from a syringe . Not only didn't it hurt a bit ,
I almost wanted to go get hurt again , so I could get some more stitches , and for a couple of hours for some strange reason couldn't stop smiling and
just loved everybody
Ethyl chloride ? was also commonly used to "freeze cuts numb" for suturing . Was sort of like freon , a liquifed gas
in an amber glass pressure bottle having a dip tube and
a thumb actuated lever valve for dispensing a stream like from a wash bottle . Of course it was freezing cold , but also
was an anesthetic by chemical mechanism also IIRC .
[Edited on 19-12-2007 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
I grew up with a Gilbert Chemistry set that today would contain "List 1 & 2" materials..... Back in the 1960's they used one warning and believed
that was sufficient. "The materials contained within are poisonous"....period. The makers of the materials believed that people didn't want to harm
themselves and during that time many folks didn't blame others for their stupid mistakes.
Today, we have lawyers and we have no mistakes; only victims.
|
|
|
Phosphor-ing
Hazard to Others
Posts: 247
Registered: 31-5-2006
Location: Deep South, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
|
|
@Xeniod Thanks for that web link! There is some great reading on those pages. I especially like "EDISON The Menlo Park DRUGS BARON". It talks about
Edison's accounts of some of the accidents and mishaps that happened in his lab.
|
|
|
bio2
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
Registered: 15-1-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes, I remember mercurochrome and etc. being applied to superficial cuts
and as a topical treatment was (is) more or less innocuous. It certainly
kills any living thing it contacts.
What I was referring to, regarding thimerosol, was it's use as preservative in injectable vaccines. As a kid in the '60's maybe we got 3 or 4 standard
vaccinations and for her own reasons my mother wouldn't let us take the polio vaccine.
There is some evidence that the mercury in vaccines is a cause of autism which
has skyrocketed in recent years. Injecting organic mercury into infants surely can't
be harmless and now literally hundreds of times more thimerosol can be potentially administered compared to 40 years ago.
Some "jurisdictions" in this day and age recommend almost 70 different vaccines for
children with many saying they are "required" for school attendance. See the recent
Maryland court proceedings which "forced" parents to inoculate their children under threat of non-existent law. The actual law used to prosecute the
forced vaccinations was truancy after the school district expelled the unvaccinated kids. The prosecutor
even admitted publicly that he did not allow his children to receive all the so called "required" vaccinations.
A little off topic but take a look at this video. A real eye opener. The laughter in
the background is actually part of the original interview with Mercks chief
scientist for vaccines. At first I thought it was poorly dubbed in but then it is
explained as coming from those present during the interview.
........................This stunning censored interview conducted by medical historian Edward Shorter for WGBH public television (Boston) and
Blackwell Science was cut from The Health Century due to its huge liability--the admission that Merck drug company vaccines have traditionally been
injecting cancer viruses (SV40 and others) in people worldwide.............
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=327_1195303011
|
|
|
contrived
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 9-3-2007
Location: Washington State
Member Is Offline
Mood: skeptical
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
JohnWW, I would be happy to if I had a scanner. Say, that sounds like a good item to put on my Christmas list! |
We've got an old Epsom you can have for shipping cost, where do you live?
|
|
|
contrived
Hazard to Self
Posts: 56
Registered: 9-3-2007
Location: Washington State
Member Is Offline
Mood: skeptical
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by quicksilver
I grew up with a Gilbert Chemistry set that today would contain "List 1 & 2" materials..... |
We want the list of chems from one of those old sets to show our rep.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
Ebay had some Gilbert or Skilcraft sets where you could read the labels. They are probably gone by now though.
I may take you up on your offer of the "Epsom" scanner - let's see what shakes out of Christmas first. Is that the type that has the automatic
desiccating feature?
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
I like the promotional stickers on the old gilbert chemistry sets. It shows some kid mixing the contents of 2 test tubes and he's not wearing gloves
or goggles and he has his face right up to it! Ha!
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
The above chemistry set was possibly one of the original ones. Circa 1958-9 IIRC. Look at the containers. The one I had contained unshielded glass
bottles. Someone made a Molotov cocktail for a lamp there too.
You can tell it's age also by the promo of the youth mixing chems...First of all [he is] male, white, and there are no group of other students of
differing nationalities in the picture. "He" should be a "she" (an EMPOWERED woman!) with a small group of males of differing nationalities adoringly
looking on. Can't you just see it? The strong, vital, intelligent WOMAN making a fantastic discovery while males of all nations look on in awe...
I'll see if I can get an accurate list of the chemicals contained in Gilbert's original sets.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
Those look like wooden bottles and I'm thinking it may indeed be one of the earliest ones. My set had amber glass bottles and I'm guessing it was
1956 or 1957 vintage. I also had a Gilbert erector set. You are right about the male orientation. I do remember the phrase "Hello Boys!" being
prominently displayed on the picture label.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
Actually, IIRC it's a 1936 set.
I'm kicking myself in the ass for not getting it because it only went for $20.
I found this on the bottom of the Wikipedia "Chemistry Set" page:
| Quote: |
Concerns have been raised over the safety of chemistry sets, so many omit flammable chemicals, or else contain them in such small amounts that they
pose relatively little danger. Likewise, they may also lack heat sources, breakable glass, and strong acids and bases. There has also been controversy
over the possibility of chemistry sets being used to create illegal drugs, such as methamphetamine. Many experts criticize these movements, claiming
that they "remove the fun and interest" from chemistry, rendering the sets bland and ineffectual.
|
I can't even start to list the things wrong with that. Bullshit I say. Bullshit.
[Edited on 20-12-2007 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
alphacheese
Harmless
Posts: 9
Registered: 7-12-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments from the 60s was a children's chemistry experiment book. It's got all sorts of great stuff in it but was
later taken off the shelf of libraries for it's level of danger.
|
|
|
Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
|
|
I got that Golden chemistry book some years back from my grandmother, who found it at a garage sale. As far as I can tell its removal from libraries
by the government is only an urban legend. The experiments it contains are not particularly dangerous or unusual for the time it was published.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
I have that book on PDF if anybody wants to take a look.
I love this quote from the book. It's talking about producing chlorine gas in the home lab (for kids!).
| Quote: |
Have a bottle of diluted household ammonia (90% water, 10% household ammonia) on hand. Sniff this if you get too strong a whiff of chlorine.
|
And it shows an illustration of someone waving their hand in front of a test tube that is spewing out Cl2! You would never see this nowadays.
[Edited on 20-12-2007 by MagicJigPipe]
[Edited on 20-12-2007 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
It gets better
1933, Popular Science article.
Attachment: Make Chlorine at home popular sceince 1933.pdf (873kB)
This file has been downloaded 1122 times
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
Right clicking then "Save Target As" worked fine for me.
Normal left clicking appears to take longer than usual, so I gave up and right clicked.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
It's just the rise of the nanny state, the environmental priesthood, the rule of lawyers as opposed to the rule of law, and the general decline of
western civilization.
Nothing to fret about.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
|
|
|
franklyn
International Hazard
Posts: 3026
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by bio2
Nowadays if a kid were to open a bottle
of benzene in chemistry class they would be terrified of contracting cancer,
|
In middle school we had " shop class " one of which was Letter press printing on
a motorized platen press , clean up and removing ink from fingers was done with
benzene.
 
In high school " shop class " was the foundry where sand casting molten aluminum
was done from the patern you made in a yet another carpentry shop that provided
a table saw and planner. Some how we all managed to survive these perils.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sobrero
- Idem for the phospine (!) production from white phosphorus and potassium hydroxide! Damn!
- Lots of arsenicum related experiments:
" As soon as the disgusting smell of cacodyloxyde is noticed, the heating should be
discontinued due to the toxicity of the gas ".
- That HF-experiment is present too. No mention indeed of a fume hood. ' The HF vapours
should not be inhaled; the aquous solution of HF causes painful wounds which heal very slowly '.
|
I also posted this tidbit before _
When I was in middle school the practice at the time was to demonstrate the
action of nitric acid on copper in the open , often in winter in a closed classroom.
That wing of the school over the course of those few days would reek of NOx.
Needless to say the effects on people were palpable with marked pulmonary
symptoms. I wonder now if the asthma I had around this time was attributable
to this.
.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
