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jim20/20
Harmless
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looks like this pair are about to find out their fate
someone must have thought this was such a good business idea they decided to copy it but theyve gone one step further
internationally controlled list 1 precursors for sale as well
genius
so what is it scam or slow train wreck
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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| Quote: |
someone must have thought this was such a good business idea they decided to copy it but theyve gone one step further
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This is unbelievable. These people either have a deathwish or are just terribly stupid. Or perhaps LE is missing Kno3 so much that they set up their
own storefront.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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evil_lurker
National Hazard
Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
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Mood: On the wagon again.
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Dammit, that is a honey trap for bees if I ever seen one... although I wouldn't mind having some lithium metal and RP for expirementation... 
Besides phosphorous acid works much better for cooking meth than RP/I anyways. 
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
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Mood: interested
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This source for chemicals does not look good. A very strange assortment (contains a few purely drug-related and many secondary stuff, which is helpful
in drugs-manufacture), some chems which could be useful in pyrotechnics or general chemistry. I have the impression that these pyro-related chems are
just there to cover up their ass a little bit, so that they do not sell to the drugs-manufacturing scene exclusively.
The prices also are insane  . A Mg-ribbon 25 grams package for almost GBP 50
(=EUR 75, almost $100) is really insane. These rolls of Mg are offered on eBay for 20% of this price and even that already is a tad expensive.
Why would a home chemist or a school want ephedrine or saffrole? I really think that they go two steps too far with that kind of chems. Even in
countries with much more relaxed rules on chemicals (compared to the USA with their listed chems), the purchase of saffrole and ephedrine from this
source would raise some flags.
I did some research after this name. The website seems to be lying. They are talking about 2005 - 2007 as the period in which they shipped orders. The
domainname, however, was registered at June 29, 2007 and it probably has become active at July 17, 2007.
Whether this is a honeypot or not, I am not sure about that. The domainname is registered in Germany by Key-Systems GmbH. The person, who registered
this domain has given this address:
3 Sawley Road
Greater Manchester
M40 8BB
GB
So, no connections to the USA, where this kind of things is highly illegal.
Here follows the dump of the WHOIS lookup I did:
Domain name:
thechemicalcloset.co.uk
Registrant:
The Chemical Closet
Registrant type:
Unknown
Registrant's address:
3 Sawley Road
Greater Manchester
M40 8BB
GB
Registrar:
Key-Systems GmbH [Tag = KEY-SYSTEMS-DE]
URL: http://www.Key-Systems.net
Relevant dates:
Registered on: 29-Jun-2007
Renewal date: 29-Jun-2009
Last updated: 17-Jul-2007
Registration status:
Registered until renewal date.
Name servers:
ns57.domaincontrol.com
ns58.domaincontrol.com
WHOIS lookup made at 22:38:14 25-Nov-2007
[Edited on 25-11-07 by woelen]
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
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Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Mood: metastable
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Very likely the German company is the host provider.
You might do a google on them; if they are a web hosting service they will surely have a site of their own.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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evil_lurker
National Hazard
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Location: United States of Elbonia
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Mood: On the wagon again.
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I know one thing, if I lived in the USA, I would not touch that company with a 100 meter cattle prod.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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Sauron
International Hazard
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Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Does the ordering of chemicals from abroad (meaning outside YSA) make any sense other than through normal commercial importer channel?
I mean, someone wordering any chemical from outside USA is going to pay majopr shipping costs, and have to clear US Customs, if the shipment has a CIF
over $200 that means a formal entry (requiring a customs broker). You might short circuit some of that by using a courier service but then you have
shifted the overhead from one pocket to the other because those guys are not cheap and you probably have to have the shipper lie to them to carry
chemicals at all.
To me it makes no sense.
Then again I haven't lived in USA for going on 20 years so WTF do I know?
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Phosphor-ing
Hazard to Others
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Location: Deep South, USA
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Mood: Inquisitive
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Stupid people who give chemistry a bad name will order from this place, raise red flags, and be promptly removed from society. I mean how blatant do
you have to be to carry multiple list 1 chemicals, and almost everything else is list 2!
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jim20/20
Harmless
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do not pass go do not collect 200 pounds
| Quote: | Originally posted by evil_lurker
I know one thing, if I lived in the USA, I would not touch that company with a 100 meter cattle prod. |
i wouldnt touch it no matter were i lived
within uk chemical companies cant sell and perhaps even store list 1s without a license
you need a license to buy and they cant sell to anyone who doesnt have a license
and if they sell to outside eu they have to be labelled in big fat letters #drug precursor# so customs can see them a mile of
i dont think its bacon either though
it smells of scam or kno3 ll
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chemnut
Character assassin
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Registered: 29-6-2006
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thechemikalcloset.co.uk appears to be inoperable.
[Edited on 27-11-2007 by chemnut]
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undead_alchemist
Hazard to Others
Posts: 189
Registered: 12-1-2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Mood: Tired, Cleaning up corporate messes at work!
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That place smells too much like a trap. even look at the prices for glassware.
Looks as if they have taken stock photos from Corning's website.
Even here in Canada, you need to get a license from Health Canada for any List 1 / Class A Chemicals.
Thats for buying, selling, importing, exporting, manufacture, and need an approved stored area as well.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Mood: Suspicious
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God damnit I hate this irrational "drug chemical" paranoia. What the fuck about alcohol? I'm sure it destroys way more lives than methamphetamine
ever will (I hate both substances). So, why not make anything directly used in the manufacture of EtOH illegal? Aw, who am I kidding, we all know
why. It's just insane.
This may be irrational hatred of alcohol because I have several friends who have departed this life because of it. More than people who have done so
because of methamphetamine. But I just can't help it.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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pantone159
National Hazard
Posts: 590
Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
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Mood: desperate for shade
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That site looks really difficult to believe.
After all the trouble the KNO3 owners got into, why would anybody start a similar store, in the UK, and even much more blatant???
A scam is what I would bet on.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Yes, for some reason you can always rely on the govt (esp UK an US) to come up with new forms of attempted entrapment. Unless your talking about
non-govt. scam then, of course it's possible.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
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"Entrapment", as defined in Court decisions, occurs only either: when a Pig in disguise actively solicits contraband like drugs or guns or porn or
(where still illegal) prostitution from a person who would not otherwise attempt to procure and then possess the stuff for the purposes of resale; or
when a Pig in disguise possesses (or claims to possess) and actively tries to sell contraband like drugs or guns or porn or (where still illegal)
prostitution to unsuspecting persons who would not otherwise buy the stuff if it were not for the Pig's approach. The idea for committing a crime thus
has to come from a corrupt Pig, for the defense to hold. The defense of entrapment in these circumstances has been established in the U$A for many
years, and was established in my country from those U$ decisions in a notable case here, believed to involve drugs, about 25 or 30 years ago.
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Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
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Entrapment is not legally limited to the sorts of cases JohnWW mentions, but theoretically could take place in any sort of case. Entrapment arises
when a criminal conspiracy is initiated by an undercover police officer (or federal agent) if and only if the other party or parties were not
otherwise inclined to commit such an offense.
In other words, if the accused is someone with a history of armed robbery, then that accused cannot argue entrapment if the police put in an
undercover agent who proposes a robbery and then arrests his "partners".
So in the case of a kno3-like distance seller of drug precursors, any buyer who was actually purchasing such precursors for the purpose of making
drugs, could not succesfully argue entrapment under the law.
If the autorities in the UK set up a dummy company to sell drug precursors, the main purpose might not be prosecution, because after all, most of the
buyers will be outside of the UK won't they? And in some instances buyers in the UK would have no problem anyway because some chemicals (like red P)
are not illegal to sell or buy in UK (or so we are told.)
No, the purpose is more likely to be police intelligence-gathering about the buyers.
Of course it is possible that the dummy company was set up not by the UK authorities but by the DEA (or even DHS) or that this is a bilateral,
cooperative sting operation by both nations.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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jim20/20
Harmless
Posts: 25
Registered: 10-7-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
No, the purpose is more likely to be police intelligence-gathering about the buyers.
Of course it is possible that the dummy company was set up not by the UK authorities but by the DEA (or even DHS) or that this is a bilateral,
cooperative sting operation by both nations. |
too complicated
kno3 were dumb enough to sell restricted chems to places they shouldnt have and plenty customers in those places were dumb enough to buy
either that is happening again which is unlikely but its always possible or someone is fishing for suckers
who are you going to complain to when that bottle of list 1 precursor never arrives
ever heard of mbetech
| Quote: | | In the spring of 2001, MBEtech.net, based in the United States, closed down their business and let their domain name expire. In the fall of 2001 the
domain name was purchased by someone in Wales who put up a catalog containing nearly identical items to those previously carried by the company. They
failed to reply to email inquiries from several people asking whether it was the same company. Speculation is that this is NOT the same company and
that the new owner bought the domain name in order to get people to send them money in the mail. They take only cash or money orders. We received a
specific complaint in July 2002 from an individual who placed an order, sent payment, and has received no response from the company (to either emails
or physical letters) in 6 weeks. |
i took this from erowid but i remember it at the time
have a look on archiveorg
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joeflsts
Hazard to Others
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I love the "entrapment" discussion to buying list 1 chemicals to make drugs. It's pretty simple folks, if you buy list 1 items without obtaining the
proper documentation and you make illegal substances you broke the law. The only real entrapment is self inflicted which is translated into stupid.
Joe
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Sauron
International Hazard
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Sometimes the law is an ass.
These lists are often arbitrary. Many listed chemicals have numerous legitimate uses, and many others remain listed long after the drugs they were
used for have passed from fashion.
The entire philosphy of interdicting precursors is as ill considered as it in ineffectual. But then so is the entire "war on drugs". My attitude about
drugs is well known, but, even an anti-drug individual like me must see that the WOD has long been a dismal defeat and is now an expensive boondoggle.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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joeflsts
Hazard to Others
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I don't disagree with you. However, my point was simple if you have list 1 and you're making illegal substances there is no gray area.
Joe
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pantone159
National Hazard
Posts: 590
Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
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I get some different whois results than woelen did.
http://whois.domaintools.com/thechemicalcloset.com
EDIT: I just realized I checked the .com, not .co.uk which is why the data is different. The two websites look identical, and have the same IP.
I see it registered via GoDaddy, and have the following contact info:
Porter, James
The Chemical Closet
3 Sawley Road
Greater Manchester, Manchester M40 8BB
United Kingdom
447742129481 Fax --
Email: james.porterthe3rd@yahoo.co.uk
I really think this has to be a scam. Sucker sends them money, and never gets the List I chems because they don't exist in the first place. Who are
you going to complain to?
[Edited on 30-11-2007 by pantone159]
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JohnWW
International Hazard
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You could complain ANONYMOUSLY to the Manchester Pigs, I suppose. It would have to be done through an anonymous email service in a country other than
the U.K., in which British search warrants cannot be enforced, e.g. fastmail.fm, which is located in the Federated States Of Micronesia. Or through an
anonymous web-surfing site.
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jim20/20
Harmless
Posts: 25
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JohnWW
You could complain ANONYMOUSLY to the Manchester Pigs, I suppose. |
do you mean try to trigger an investigation
i think a company offering list 1s is probably already under investigation
but if you have to complain anonymously then you also cant get your money back
this reminds me of a funny line from a movie
| Quote: | Listen to this one: You open a company called the Arse Tickler's Faggots Fan Club. You take out an advert in the back page of some gay mag,
advertising the latest in arse-intruding dildos, you sell it with, I dunno, "does what no other dildo can do until now", "the latest and greatest in
sexual technology", "guaranteed results or your money back", all that bollocks. Now these dils cost twenty-five quid a pop - as a snip for the amount
of pleasure they're gonna give the recipients. But they send their cheques to the other company name, nothing offensive, er, Bobbie's Bits or
something, for twenty-five quid. You take that twenty-five quid, you stick it in the bank until it clears. Now this is the smart bit - you send back
the cheque for twenty-five pound from the other company name, "Arse Tickler's Faggots Fan Club", saying we're sorry, we couldn't get the supplies from
America because they ran out of stock. Now you see how many people cash that cheque - not a single soul, because who wants their bank manager to know
they tickle arse when they're not paying cheques?
-from lock stock and 2 smoking barrels |
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MadHatter
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Scam
Jim, a more sinister scam was actually done years ago. The difference is the group
would send the check back with a NAMBLA logo. That is the North American Man Boy
Love Association. Now how many people will actually tender that check at their bank ?
Those scam artists need to be SHOT !
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
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Mood: .
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This seemed relavent to why the US was able to 'extradite' the owners of KNO3.com
Scary, although it is the media, so who knows the real story.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/...
[Edited on 2-12-2007 by The_Davster]
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