soma
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how to find a low cost consultant
I'm wanting to develop a synthesis method for n-acetyl cysteine amide. I've posted a few threads on methods I've looked at.
I'm thinking it would be a good idea to find maybe a chemistry student who would have access to analytical equipment and who could also advise on the
methods.
Anyone know what a going $ rate would be for this?
Thanks.
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chemrox
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$200/hr
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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soma
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You're talking about the professional rate -- not the rate that a chemistry student would expect?
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Magpie
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I assume this synthesis is not trivial or you would have done it yourself. The students I have known would not have the time to develop a procedure.
If you pay him he is a professional. How could the school justify the use of their facilities for private work?
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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chemrox
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Good call Magpie. Like I said, I'll do it for $200/hr. Probably take a few hours to properly research and half a day to test it. I'm also really sick
of guys who want me to assay their gold property for free. If you don't want to pay go away. BTW are you starting from N-acetyl cysteine or more
primitive?
[Edited on 12-12-2015 by chemrox]
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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Ozone
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No such thing. $200-300/hr. Consider what you are asking for--years of education, years of experience, available facility, reagents...the list goes
on.
You *might* be able to convince someone to work with you, if you can cough up matching funds (or in-kind) and secure a small grant, though.
I have done a good bit of work with nAC, and I can tell you that working around the sulfhydryl is a tricky-bit.
O3
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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AvBaeyer
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This is a trivial synthesis for someone skilled in the art. There are several obvious routes starting from fairly cheap intermediates. If you do not
know how to seek out and evaluate the synthesis methods, then you are not ready to do this synthesis. Why don't you come up with synthesis methods
based on literature research then ask for help in evaluation.
As for analytical work, there are many commercial companies who could easily (not cheaply) do your puriity, etc., checks.
AvB
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Ozone
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For the price, it usually includes the synthesis and analytics (HPLC, GC, - MS, FTIR, NMR, whatever). It also includes an NDA. There's your money.
In any case, I've never taken on a project like this and haven't wished that I had charged twice as much.
If you are going for a high-yielding (or really cheap, feed and reagent-wise) route that isn't already protected as IP, it's not that easy. If you
don't care about that, then straight-forward pathways exist, and are easy to find.
O3
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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soma
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My main problem is access to analytical equip. But thanks Ozone for the mention of the difficulty with the sulfhydrl. It had been suggested to me that
I could start with nAC.
I've asked (in other threads) about this. There are some methods using microwave, imidazole and area that I am ready to try. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&...) It was thought that the microwave method might make it possible to start with
nAC.
I could just start with cystine, create the ester, then the amide, then reduce, but I'd like to be able to check out simpler methods.
Mainly, I want to produce this compound for my own use.
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soma
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Maybe I should add this:
Claims have recently been made that this compound has the ability to reverse cataracts and many other diseases.
I want to test it myself. If it does what the claims say, I would want to make it available at a low cost as a nutritional supplement.
I don't want to spend alot of money on something that turns out to not do what the claims say.
At present, I've only found 1 company that produces it. They want $300,000/kilo. Aldrich sells 25mg for $384.
If someone else wants to produce it, I would be glad to purchase it and I'm sure there would be alot of others who would also. nAC sells for maybe
$20/kg. I would like to see a price between $50-$100/kg for nAC amide.
Other claims include:
In the present human health scenario, implication of oxidative stress in numerous pathologies including neurodegenerative, cardiovascular, liver,
renal, pulmonary disorders, and cancer has gained attention. N-Acetylcysteine (NAC), a popular thiol antioxidant, has been clinically used to treat
various pathophysiological disorders. However, NAC therapy is routine only in paracetamol intoxication and as a mucolytic agent. Over six decades,
numerous studies involving NAC therapy have yielded inconsistent results, and this could be due to low bioavailability. In order to overcome the
limitations of NAC, an amide derivative N-Acetylcysteine amide (NACA) has been synthesized to improve the lipophilicity, membrane permeability, and
antioxidant property. Recent studies have demonstrated the blood-brain barrier permeability and therapeutic potentials of NACA in neurological
disorders including Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, Multiple sclerosis, Tardive dyskinesia, and HIV-associated neurological disorders. In
addition, NACA displays protective effect against pulmonary inflammation and antibiotic-induced apoptosis. Forthcoming research on the possible
therapeutic properties of NACA and its generics in the management of pathologies associated with extracellular matrix degradation and oxidative
stress-related inflammation is highly exiting. Superior bioavailability of NACA is likely to fulfill the promises of NAC as well as a molecule to
improve the endurance and resident time of bioscaffolds and biomaterials. Till date, more than 800 reviews on NAC have been published. However, no
comprehensive review is available on the therapeutic applications of NACA. Therefore, the current review would be the first to emphasize the
therapeutic potentials of NACA and its derivatives. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23472882
[Edited on 14-12-2015 by soma]
[Edited on 14-12-2015 by soma]
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Praxichys
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1. Pure USP n-acetylcystene powder is sold online, no problems. The only issue is that I don't see it under $109/kg. I feel $20/kg is a bit of a
fantasy.
2. Humoring fantasy pricing, conversion of a whole kilo needs to be $30-$80/kg. The required reagents alone (plus shipping, etc.) are going to cost
more than this. There is no way this will be profitable unless you're investing in someone's pilot plant and you have a few metric tons on order.
Otherwise, I really hope the plan does not save money by involving drain cleaner and rubbing alcohol, at which point you could probably do it for a
little less than $100.
3. A starting salary for a chemist is something like $24 per hour, ignoring benefits. Do you think prep, reaction, isolation, purification, testing,
and teardown/cleanup for a whole kilo is only going to take 2 or 3 hours, with free reactants? Realistically, this is going to take a day or two of
lab work.
I think a fair price would be more along the lines of $850-$1000/kg plus research expenses, and that's if you want Joe Schmuck and his greasy fingers
brewing it up in his basement with paint solvents and driveway salt, purity "tested" by melting point. There would also be a signed agreement strictly
assuring the seller that any FD&C use of the product is neither intended nor recommended and may result in a negative impact to health, including
death.
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byko3y
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That's why people like to work with chinese - because chinese can actually perform the whole research for few hundren dollars and produce the target
compound for something close to or less than mentioned 100$/kg.
N-Acylation of Cysteine - Cysteine 30$/kg, acetic anhydride 20$/kg, cost of the product ~80$/kg for large scale production.
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sussyn
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purebulk will sell you 25kg of NAC for 950$, 38$/kg, and they're hardly the low cost supplier.
I seriously doubt you'll do better than starting with cystine btw, but nothing beats data.
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soma
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Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys  | | 1. Pure USP n-acetylcystene powder is sold online, no problems. The only issue is that I don't see it under $109/kg. I feel $20/kg is a bit of a
fantasy. |
I've found a company that has it for around $20/kg if I recall (we purchased it a couple years ago). They're a Chinese company located in the US --
Pure Assay Ingredients.
I've already got all the starting materials for the microwave synth -- imidazole, urea, and nAC - but I don't have a HPLC so I'm looking for someone
who could test it.
[Edited on 22-12-2015 by soma]
[Edited on 22-12-2015 by soma]
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