Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: ammonium hydroxide
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 4-10-2005 at 18:59
ammonium hydroxide


I purchased some Ace brand janitorial ammonium hydroxide today. The label says it contains 10% ammonium hydroxide. I decided to titrate it, both to verify the strength and to prove out a method for determining the strength of a more concentrated solution. I plan to beneficiate this OTC to a lab grade 30% ammonium hydroxide. :cool:

Assuming a sp. gr. of 0.98 I calculated the normality as (0.98)(1000)(0.10)/35.05 =
2.8 N.

For my 1st titration I used some 0.171N potassium acid phthalate that I had on hand and a methyl orange indicator (color change 3.1-4.4 pH). This didn't work as the pH wouldn't drop enough as I believe phthalic acid is too weak. On my next attempt I used 4.3N HCl. This was successful but I got a normality for the ammonium hydroxide of 5.1!

Although I'm not complaining about the higher than expected (2.8N) concentration I'm wondering if I've missed something. Have any of the rest of you had this experience - or have an explanation for my strange results?




The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 4-10-2005 at 22:25


If the stuff is 10%, then I would expect a concentration of approximately 5.5 mol/l. Actually, you did your measurements quite well!!

Ammonium hydroxide is a very bad name. Just call it solution of ammonia (NH3) in water. The percentage is given as percentage NH3 and not as percentage NH4OH.




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 5-10-2005 at 07:27


Woelen you are probably right. If so this is just sloppy labeling. I don't know what the convention is for stating the strength of ammonia for cleaning. Perhaps it is "% ammonia."



The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
*****




Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-10-2005 at 08:21


For the manufacturer it is beneficial to use the mass percentage of NH4OH (although EVERY serious chemist knows this is wrong) as this will be higher than the mass percentage of NH3...



One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 5-10-2005 at 10:20


I cannot agree with that. I have purchased ammonia many times in all kinds of concentrations (ranging from 5% to 32%), but I've never seen it specified as weight percentage NH4OH, always as NH3.



The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
*****




Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-10-2005 at 12:54


Quote:

The label says it contains 10% ammonium hydroxide


Magpie's apparently does...Maybe the chemistry Gestapo is more active in Europe :P




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 5-10-2005 at 13:06


Vulture, things are even better at the other side of the ocean, the label says 10% ammonium hydroxide, but it is 10% ammonia!!! That's more than twice the amount of NH4OH. So, in fact for each bottle of ammonium hydroxide you buy, you get one for free as well :D . You only have to take your own water :P .



The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
((Blasta))
Harmless
*




Posts: 29
Registered: 3-8-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-10-2005 at 23:44
15%-20% NH4OH found..cheap too


I get my stuff from Janitors Supply huts... I get 4L for $12.50 CANADIAN
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 18-10-2005 at 20:39


My attempt to upgrade janitorial ammonium hydroxide (5.2N) to reagent grade (16N) had very limited success. Using simple sparging of ammonia at a few inches of water pressure for 1 hr it only reached 7.0N.

I am thinking the ammonia dissolution will have to be done under pressure. For this I will make some liquid ammonia according to the method of Eleusis. This will give me gaseous ammonia at 114 psig. To contain the liquid I will need to buy a lecture bottle, or homemake one out of black iron pipe and a valve.

Questions, comments, or suggestions?

[Edited on 19-10-2005 by Magpie]

[Edited on 20-10-2005 by Magpie]




The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chloric1
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1147
Registered: 8-10-2003
Location: GroupVII of the periodic table
Member Is Offline

Mood: Stoichiometrically Balanced

[*] posted on 19-10-2005 at 07:10


Question: Who is Eleusis?

Ammonia like any gas is more soluble in cold than warm solvents. WHy can't you cool Janitorial Ammonia with dry ice to -40 degrees C or colder and then add ammonia. I was adding dry ice to ammonia once to make ammonium carbonate to do an improvized Solvey process and after a pound of dry ice was added to 600 ml of ammonia the liquid was so cold that 1 cm thick ice form on the beakers outside from the humidity! And the dewpoint was about 10 Degrees C that day! THe point is the aqueous solution did not freeze.




Fellow molecular manipulator
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 19-10-2005 at 09:37


Eleusis is the name of someone who posted the method on the internet.

I cooled the ammonia gas with an ice-water cooled condenser and the janitorial ammonia was kept in a 100 mL graduate cylinder immersed in an ice-bath.

The freezing point of my janitorial ammonia would be about -14C per CRC handbook. I'm skeptical that lowering the temperature to -14C would help much since at 0C the absorption capability of water for ammonia is around 47 wt%! Therefore I think it is more of a mass-transfer rate problem than an absorption capability problem.




The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User
garage chemist
chemical wizard
*****




Posts: 1803
Registered: 16-8-2004
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 19-10-2005 at 09:39


How did you generate the gaseous ammonia and how much of it was bubbled through the aqueous NH3?
Concentrating the ammonia to 30% should pose no problem.
The only important thing is to generate enough of the gaseous NH3.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Magpie
lab constructor
*****




Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.

[*] posted on 19-10-2005 at 09:58


I generated the ammonia using about 300 mL of janitorial ammonia placed in a 500mL RBF, gently heated. The evolved ammonia was led through the ice-water cooled condenser then to a sparge tube with an aquarium air sparge stone on the end. This was fully immersed in the 100 mL grad cylinder, immersed in ice-water. I sparged for 1 hr with a steady stream of bubbles until the source petered out.



The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top