Wolfram
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Language gene
I have read about one inressting gene: FOXP2 which is very important for human language. People missing the gene have big problems expressing
themselves.
Now I have some question:
Do you know if the chimp genome projekt is completed soon?
Do you know of other genes which are involved in controlling human intelligence?
[Edited on 18-4-2004 by Wolfram]
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Blind Angel
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I think that monkey can communicate as complicated as us due to the form and emplacement of their larynx
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Wolfram
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I have not noticed yet that monkeys can comunicate as complicated as us. Would you please show me some evidende for your claim.
[Edited on 18-4-2004 by Wolfram]
[Edited on 18-4-2004 by Wolfram]
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Blind Angel
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Well the doctor who made research in the tropical jungle about monkye (i can recall her name) sawa that there was a complexe reliationship between
every chimpazee, going from love, cheating, war, protection of family, remembrance, vengeance and all, all this signify certainly a great
communication between them.
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Wolfram
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Oh Please!..
Oh Please!
Yeah they sure have great comunication so have ant, delphines and bees.
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chemoleo
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Interesting!
I wasn't aware of that protein, I think I may do my soon-to-come journal club talk on this 
Anyway, I did a quick alignment of various fox2p protein sequences, from humans, chimpanzees, mouse, and an australian bird (budgerigar).
If anyone is wondering what those letters are - each letter denotes a certain amino acid (i.e. glycine = G, glutamine = Q, etc), and the colour coding
denotes the overall properties (polar, apolar, acidic, basic, and H-bonding ones)
I did the alignment at http://www.ebi.ac.uk/clustalw/ , and obtained the sequences from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&...
What does this alignment show?
You can see that this is a HIGHLY conserved protein, only with a very few amino acid changes, even compared to to birds. This of course indicates
great importance of the protein/gene. Generally, the less crucial the funciton of a protien is, the more it is mutated.
HOWEVER - you will notice that there are two changes in amino acid sequence that only occur in humans, but not to our close
relatives, the monkeys. That clearly breaks the pattern.
I searched around for a few papers, and I found, indeed, human FOXP2 experienced a >60-fold (!!) increase in mutation/amino acid substitution rate
compared - which is a clear sign of accelerated evolution. (see Genetics, Accelerated protein evolution and origins of human-specific features: Foxp2
as an example. , by J. Zhang et al, 2002 Dec;162(4):1825-35.)
This means, basically, that there was an enormous selective pressure for those two mutations, and indeed, they may be very crucial in the development
of human language.
Funny how big things boil down to two mutations, huh?
Of course, lol, this won't be the only change - there is a myriad of others, undiscovered ones, of yet.
I have a few articles on this, the orignial publications - but I'll have to read them first.
Anyone interested?
[Edited on 19-4-2004 by chemoleo]
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Wolfram
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Good!
The era of sciencemadness-bioinformatics at has started.
The fascinating thing with bioinformatics is that you can do research at home with only your computer. So its very well suited for private mad
scientists.
Now if the chimp genome project was finished we could find some more genes important in development of the human brain.
[Edited on 19-4-2004 by Wolfram]
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chemoleo
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Yes, that's what I like about bioinformatics.
There is such a HUGE amount of data that needs to be analysed, and people have just begun with it.
As to the chimp genome project - I think a number of chromosomes were sequenced already - and completion should be achieved in the next few years.
The idea of comparing the genomes of homo sapiens and chimpanzee is of course an old one, a VAST amount conclusion can be drawn as to evolution,
intelligence, articulation, dexterity and so on.
I believe that once the genome is out, many companies will be looking for clues against disease resisitance, i.e. Malaria and HIV.
Plus, of course, one can narrow down gene candidates that are responsible for what makes us different.
Once this is known, scientists will probably do gene therapy on monkeys to see whetehr they can be made more intelligent....you can figure the rest.
Ethics aside, this IS exciting stuff!!
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Blind Angel
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Who need ethic anyway 
I we can get supermonkey as lab slave
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Wolfram
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I to like the idea..
I to like the idea of doing madscientist research without the risk of blowing your house up, risk to have your livingng room filled with vapor of
boiling nitric acid or getting cancer becouse of weird mutagens. etc.
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Blind Angel
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this isn't ethic, it's security
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Wolfram
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Answer
"this isn't ethic, it's security"
"Ethics" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Do you cosider your self in need of ethical advicement? Not me.
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Blind Angel
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sorry i misread your last post
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Sounds like you all want the planet of the apes to become a reality...
 
Also Monkeys have a spirit and a soul...you will have anti slave moves and animal syndicalism...haven't you learn from history...
Read back the problem of salves and black people.
When will you learn.
[Edited on 7-6-2004 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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chemoleo
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Well.. not necessarily the planet of the apes, in the fashion of the film... but arent you sometimes baffled by the human-likeness of the apes? Makes
me wish they were a bit more intelligent... like a cool pet of sorts , that would do all the paper work for me
I guarantee you though... once scientists find the differences between monkeys and humans (the genetic ones), they will try to genetically alter
monkeys and see what effect those (human) mutations have - among them will be an increased level of intelligence. Follow the papers, it will turn up.
Within our life time !
PS I am so sure on this because the technology on this is all there... all that remains is that it needs to be done.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Blind Angel
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I would like monkey to be intelligent, just to have another specie on our planet, like there was during the neandertalus/cro-magnon era. Only one
intelligent species isn't enough
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Dolphins?
A few apes know until 450 characters and related words...
On the human side you may consider that sometimes women and men are two appart intelligent species
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Blind Angel
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This is already done since we don't have the same gene (we differ only by one but that's enough)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Although we have the same langage gene...we don't understand each other...maybe does it come from the earing gene
Gainsbourg song:
"Women its like chinese...do you understand it, I don't....this one undelines her eyes chinese ink..."
Original text in french:
"Les femmes c'est du chinois, le comprenez-vous, moi pas...celle-ci souligne ses yeux encre de chine..."
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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chemoleo
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Blindangel, I guess you are referring the different chromosomal makeup between men and women - the women with XX and men with XY.
Truly us men have a whole different chromosome just for ourselves - wonder what makes most women think they are special ??
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Organikum
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The double X set in for women is to give better chances for reproducing valid data - aka childrens gensets.
Men are more expermental - every man a alpha version - what can be good or bad. In reality it produces some partially advanced entities with serious
flaws otherwise and lots of nutcases.
There is no such thing as a "language gen", there was found a sequence which perhaps can be linked to autism and related
"disorders". Probably these variations make good sense for evolution - and probably man will exterminate himself by "healing" such
disorders by elimination of the code.
As Asperger syndrome is mine I have a very special opinion on these developments - the research and the consequences. For I see myself standing as
near to a NT (neuro-typical - the not A-XX disordered ones) as I stand to a dolphin. Except that communication with a dolphin is probably less
problematic. Because the dolphin doesnt expect me being like him.
Back on topic: The idea that the genetic code is the actual "plan" to a creature is proven wrong. Human DNA carries plain not enough
information - to many "empty" or inactive sequences. In the best case the DNA is a map where the plans are to gather.
For the single person it is done anyways after he is buildt up.
The code of the race is the interesting part. The billions of years of evolution.
I guess this will end like with chemistry. A hundred years of research and no plan whats really going on.
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