itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
RBF heating blocks for hot plates
I'm wondering if anyone has a source for heating blocks that can adapt a hot plate to heating a round bottom flask? I suppose cheap is the operative
word since decent chinese stirring mantles are available. I would like to save some space and money and get a bit more use from my hot plates.
I am aware I can use baths of various types, the blocks just seem to be an elegant and tidy solution I'd love to make use of . I'm not experienced in
using them so I suppose it would be good to hear about any shortcomings I'm overlooking as well. Thanks.
I am seeking to level up my Chem skills. Corrections welcome! All mentorship in madness appreciated.
|
|
|
12thealchemist
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 1-1-2014
Location: The Isle of Albion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rare and Earthy
|
|
I believe they're very expensive, but basically indestructable. They also only hold specific sizes of flask, like a heating mantle. You can pack out
larger ones with eg sand, but at that point you may as well just use a squat tin can filled with sand. And much like sand baths, they usually take a
while to heat up and cool down, though being aluminium they're a bit quicker.
|
|
|
monolithic
Hazard to Others
Posts: 436
Registered: 5-3-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I've heard they can crack flasks if you let the flask cool in them. Just something to consider.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Is there some reason you want this thing instead of a heating mantle?
What's the reason a heating mantle isn't sufficient?
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
What about casting one from aluminium yourself? It doesnt need perfectly even height, just sand the bottom to make it smooth.
|
|
|
rockyit98
Hazard to Others
Posts: 283
Registered: 12-4-2019
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: no mood is a good mood
|
|
you don't need a block ,what i use with my hot plate is bunch of small aluminium turnings in a container like a sand bath but much better. it works
with every shape that out there so no need for casting.
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose"-Meisner
|
|
|
Ubya
International Hazard
Posts: 1247
Registered: 23-11-2017
Location: Rome-Italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm a maddo scientisto!!!
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by rockyit98  | | you don't need a block ,what i use with my hot plate is bunch of small aluminium turnings in a container like a sand bath but much better. it works
with every shape that out there so no need for casting. |
best solution.
if you use a solid block of aluminium for each heating block, i hope you don't have many different sizes of flask, aluminium is "light" but a block
for a 1L flask is not light at all
---------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to correct my grammar, or any mistakes i make
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Once again what's the advantage or need to use a block that a mantle couldnt be used for
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
None that I can tell.
I have a 250ml block for my old hotplate and though I dont use it anymore it was very nice and didnt have those "inertia" problems mentioned here with
sand.
Pros: the saved space compared to a heating mantle
Cons: Massively overpriced
My block is made from a machined piece of Al. Why not casting I dont know but that certainly plays a part in the price.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
rockyit98
Hazard to Others
Posts: 283
Registered: 12-4-2019
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: no mood is a good mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by rockyit98 | | you don't need a block ,what i use with my hot plate is bunch of small aluminium turnings in a container like a sand bath but much better. it works
with every shape that out there so no need for casting. |
you can use steel turnings with a inductive heater because you cant use aluminium ones.it's very handy in something like in a distillation.my
inducting heater is 2kW but has 300W 700W 1200w 1500W settings.only problem is you can't use magnetic stirring.
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose"-Meisner
|
|
|
RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1596
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Does anyone know how much these things cost? I'd be really interested in casting one from Al or Cu and casting the heater into it (like stainless
cartridge heaters or something) and then using the lathe to cut the profile.
Aluminum would be a lot easier to work with as casting enough Cu (or even brass) to make one of these for a 500 or 1L+ flask can be a real PITA as Cu
can be difficult to melt, especially in larger amounts.
I'm not sure how well these things would hold up without a ceramic coating but maybe an anodized coating on Al might be sufficient to give it some
protection. Copper might be able to withstand the heat for a ceramic coating to be melted on.
|
|
|
SWIM
National Hazard
Posts: 970
Registered: 3-9-2017
Member Is Offline
|
|
Optitherm makes aluminum blocks sort of like that. (anodized)
They're round bottomed and nest so you can use them stacked to use a (for example) 250 ml flask in a 500 ml mantle.
They cost more than many mantles, but are cheaper than Glas-cols.
I kind of worry about the sizing problem though.
RBFs vary in size a bit these days, and the difference is often tolerable with floppy mantles, but the firmer "bird's nest' designs can make for a bad
fit, and a metal block could be worse.
Maybe less of a problem with major manufacturer's flasks, but potential trouble perhaps with no-name glass as there have been reports of poor fitting
from some of our posters.
Somebody used to make flasks with integral heaters.
I believe they were potted in epoxy on the outside of the flask in some cases.
Instatherm.
There was at least one Eastern European maker too.
Rasotherm made flasks with the heating element inside the flask.
Never handled one myself, so I'm not entirely sure how that worked.
They look like the element might be glass or quartz coated.
Heating mantles aren't all that expensive used if you shop around.
A couple of sizes will go a long way.
I've got sizes 25, 50, 100, 150, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000 in hemispherical mantles but I hardy ever use most of them. It's the 250 or the 500
for most ordinary uses.
Before I had all this crap (and my reaction chamber, spherical, and concentrator flask mantles), I used flat bottom flasks instead.
They work fine for just about anything and go right on your hotplate.
I'd use the flats that look like RBFs for vacuum, and jointed Erlenmeyers for everything else as they're easier to clean.
EDIT: Hey, if your heating block was gallium it'd always fit fine when you were heating it!
[Edited on 21-2-2020 by SWIM]
[Edited on 21-2-2020 by SWIM]
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Gallium 'wets' everything it touches.also what's it's b.p.? I'm guessing not high enough
|
|
|
SWIM
National Hazard
Posts: 970
Registered: 3-9-2017
Member Is Offline
|
|
You're right.
BP is only 2400 degrees C
This gallium doesn't really seem to be wetting this glass either.
[Edited on 22-2-2020 by SWIM]
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Shit didn't realize b.p. was so high.was thinking
low m.p.= low b.p.
Also does the gallium wet the glass when heated or not?
Someone's YouTube clip led me to believe that heated gallium wets everything it touches.obviously this doesn't happen at room temperature.
[Edited on 22-2-2020 by draculic acid69]
|
|
|
SWIM
National Hazard
Posts: 970
Registered: 3-9-2017
Member Is Offline
|
|
I honestly had no Idea what gallium's BP was when I posted.
The post was meant sort of tongue-in-cheek as I assume gallium is a little pricey for that sort of use.
I am also surprised at the high BP.
I don't know much about gallium. The clip you saw is probably right.
I have since recalled that they do, or at least used to, use molten metal baths for heating flasks sometimes.
Wood's alloy and such.
Really, if I wanted to mess around with some uncommon heating method for RBFs I'd probably look into heating with hot air.
They have fairly cheap hot air guns now with thermostatic control.
They claim to be accurate to a few degrees or less, and blowing air at any temperature you choose from one of these into something like a steam bath
with adjustable rings, or even just a simple can to fit each flask you have, might work pretty well.
There is at least one post on here where somebody made a simple hot air bath from an analog controlled hot air gun and what looks like a tin can with
a tube soldered to the side and a screen on the top.
Very cheap, simple and, according to the poster, effective.
For high temps I suppose you'd want to put the flask in the can with a lid covering the top except a hole for the neck with enough clearance for the
hot air to escape. With those hot air guns putting out up to 500C you ought to have all the heat you'd need for almost anything you'd do in glass,
but evenly distributed around the surface.
Infra- red was discussed a bit here a couple of years ago. I don't recall any prototypes being built, but I find it an interesting Idea. With a quartz
flask you'd be heating the contents directly and I wonder if this would have certain advantages in pyrolysis reactions involving solids.
|
|
|
Deathunter88
National Hazard
Posts: 522
Registered: 20-2-2015
Location: Beijing, China
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by SWIM | You're right.
BP is only 2400 degrees C
This gallium doesn't really seem to be wetting this glass either.
[Edited on 22-2-2020 by SWIM] |
That's because its special gallium oxide coated glass.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Graphite, quartz and teflon are apparently the only other thing liquid gallium won't stick to.
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
Liquid Gallium is a PITA, I have a sample that once liquefied during the summer, the plastic container it was in kept at least 2 grams sticking to it.
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
I've read glass cracking issue from multiple sources regarding aluminum heating blocks. Since thermal conductivity is so extreme in aluminum compared
to glass of any type, I find there might be some truth in this.
The same thing made me think about metal shot baths in general, how do (not) they cause thermal stress and hotspots to glass in a similar manner?
I've always had a picture that water and oil based liquids are by far the smoothest heat sources for glass, presuming the thermal difference is not
too excessive.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
