Mush
National Hazard
Posts: 633
Registered: 27-12-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thionyl chloride from batteries
Has anyone tried to utilize thionyl chloride from Li/SOCL2 batteries?
According to this doc substantial amount of thionyl chloride is used in the cathode cell.
Attachment 5
Seaglider Lithium Primary Battery
Safety and Handling Guidelines
SCHOOL OF OCEANOGRAPHY and APPLIED PHYSICS
LABORATORY
UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON
18APR07
Introduction
Each Seaglider is equipped with one high-voltage (24V), and one low-voltage (10V)
Lithium/Thionyl Chloride (LiSOCl2) battery. The high-voltage pack contains twentyone sticks of three D-cells and is rated at 91.8 Ampere-hours. The
low-voltage packcontains six sticks of three D-cells wired as six parallel sets of three cells in series,and is rated at 61.2 Ampere-hours. Individual
cells are designed for a maximum continuous current of 1.8 amperes. Each 3-cell stick is heat shrink-wrapped, then glued into its pack configuration
with a marine grade adhesive. The assembled packs
are then externally shrink-wrapped and taped for durability.
Individual D-cells are sealed in steel and contain the following components: the anode is lithium metal (4-5% of battery weight); the cathode is
liquid thionyl chloride(40-46% of battery weight) and carbon; and the electrolyte is a solution of lithium
tetrachloroaluminate in thionyl chloride (~1.5% of battery weight). Each cell has botha physical relief vent to prevent casing over-pressure, and an
internal 38-gage wirefuse that opens the electrical path at a sustained current of 5 amperes.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
40% battery weight is a fair bit of thionyl chloride.how much do these batteries cost?
Ppl do extract thionyl chloride from batteries for certain reasons in Russia.they use cheap Chinese products whichever ones they are.i know those
small foil batteries smell like rotten eggs when there split open.
I think chilling them in the fridge and then cracking them open under xylene seperating the lithium for later use then distilling the thionyl chloride
from the xylene is how to do it.
|
|
|
Loptr
International Hazard
Posts: 1348
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
|
|
I recall them being pretty expensive. I thought about this at one time as well.
"Question everything generally thought to be obvious." - Dieter Rams
|
|
|
Mush
National Hazard
Posts: 633
Registered: 27-12-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69  | 40% battery weight is a fair bit of thionyl chloride.how much do these batteries cost?
Ppl do extract thionyl chloride from batteries for certain reasons in Russia.they use cheap Chinese products whichever ones they are.i know those
small foil batteries smell like rotten eggs when there split open.
I think chilling them in the fridge and then cracking them open under xylene seperating the lithium for later use then distilling the thionyl chloride
from the xylene is how to do it. |
The standard AAA about 5-6 USD/ piece on aliexpress. Chinese don't give a dam on hazmat shipping so one would get them . Ain't' cheap but who needs a
liter of this stuff?
Regarding to technic , it seem feasible. I was thinking to operate in a glove box ( a standard plastic box turned upside down filled with inert gas
.
Not all types of baterries suitable for this attempt. Energy / Bobbin Type ones are the good ones.
tadiranbatteries.de
System Lithium Thionyl Chloride
SL-2790 Size: DD Lithium content:10 g Weight:190 g
Theoretical min Thionyl Chloride content: 190g* 0.40=76 g
price: 32 GBP (EU price)
EVE Lithium Primary battery ER341245 3.6V 35000mAh DD 32.9x123.5mm weight :195g
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EVE-Lithium-Primary-b...
$0.99 - $9.99 / Pieces | 5 Piece/Pieces (Min. Order)
aliexpress: US $42.74 free shipping/Pieces
https://www.simpower.co.nz/product/individual-cells-batterie...
[Edited on 12-11-2019 by Mush]
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
I've got an old laptop lithium battery I've been hanging onto for the purpose of getting the lithium and the socl2
out of it.not ready to do it yet but will document it when I do it.not sure whether they have socl2 in them(do all li batteries have socl2) but will
give it a go.
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
A laptop battery almost certainly won't have SOCl2 (or even any metallic lithium). Only non-rechargeable lithium batteries have it.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Lithium ion batteries don't have metallic lithium.like phone batteries but those foil batteries smell of sulphur something or other when open and they
had a Li strip in them.dont think it was non rechargeable as whatever I pulled it out of was meant to be recharged.
|
|
|
DavidJR
National Hazard
Posts: 908
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tired
|
|
Lithium thionyl chloride batteries are pretty rare and I would be thoroughly shocked to find them in any consumer electronics. They are mainly used in
very low temperature applications.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Those foil batteries give off some weird rotten egg smell when opened.what would that be if it's not socl2?
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
SOCl2 definitely does not smell like rotten eggs. It has a smell of burning sulphur, or of burning matches. The smell is caused by formation of SO2
when SOCl2 comes in contact with moisture (e.g. in your nose).
If you want to experience the smell of SOCl2, then take some sulfite or bisulfite and add a few drops of dilute hydrochloric acid or dilute sulphuric
acid to that and heat a little. What you smell is SO2 and that also is the smell of SOCl2. The smell of SOCl2 is somewhat more pungent, because it
also forms HCl when in contact with water, so you get the smell of SO2, but the "bite" and pungency of HCl. So, if you want to exprience the smell of
SOCl2 even more accurately, take some concentrated HCl (35% or so) and add a few drops of that to a solid bisulfite salt and carefully sniff
the fumes and gas coming from that (waft some of the fumes towards your nose, do NOT stick your nose into the fumes directly).
[Edited on 14-11-19 by woelen]
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
So if not socl2 then what rotten egg smelling compound is in the foil batteries?
Is s2cl2 used in batteries?
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Maybe some SOCl2 is reduced by lithium metal in the opened battery? When SOCl2 comes in contact with moisture from air, then SO2 and HCl are formed
and the HCl attracts more moisture. If this humid acid, saturated with SO2, comes in contact with a strong reductor, then some SO2+water can be
reduced all the way down to H2S. SO2 is a fairly good reductor, but it also can be reduced further fairly easily, e.g. try adding a little zinc metal
to an acidic solution of SO2 (or a sulfite) in water. You will get formation of sulphur, but you also will smell rotten egg from H2S.
[Edited on 15-11-19 by woelen]
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Might explain it.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
So are all lithium metal batteries thionyl chloride batteries or is a lithium/thionyl chloride different to the lithium batteries ppl tear apart for
the lithium strip?
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3727
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | | Lithium thionyl chloride batteries are pretty rare and I would be thoroughly shocked to find them in any consumer electronics. They are mainly used in
very low temperature applications. |
Also used in industrial PLC for long term memory backup power,
we changed many where I worked, I never kept the old ones.
They are high energy density, long life, non-rechargeable.
I have removed the lithium foil from a lithium cell
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=86157&...
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
DavidJR
National Hazard
Posts: 908
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tired
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69 | | So are all lithium metal batteries thionyl chloride batteries or is a lithium/thionyl chloride different to the lithium batteries ppl tear apart for
the lithium strip? |
No, there are a lot of different lithium based battery chemistries and Li-SOCl2 is only one of them and a rare one at that.
Those energisers that people take apart for the Li foil definitely don't contain SOCl2.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
I used to have some Lithium / Sulfur dioxide batteries that had some interesting uses.
|
|
|
Corrosive Joeseph
National Hazard
Posts: 915
Registered: 17-5-2015
Location: The Other Place
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cyclic
|
|
If Siberian junkies can do it, then it can't be that hard for the mad scientists here..... Although, apart from the disadvantages of money and
resources, them junkies are damn determined -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine
A selection of lithium–thionyl chloride batteries
/CJ
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no measure of one's mental health
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
So lithium aa's can contain thionyl chloride.awesome.yeah them Russians are a determined people.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
