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Bedlasky
International Hazard
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Registered: 15-4-2019
Location: Period 5, group 6
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Speaking of amateur chemistry in Australia...
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/mar/21/emman...
Response from local authorithies is exaggerated. What do they think he would do with this? Nuclear bomb? Nuclear reactor? That's pretty complicated
stuff, not to mention you need far more plutonium to do it (not to mention you need the right isotopes). 10 years for small piece of plutonium (or
rather some plutonium oxide) for collection? That's ridiculous! Murderers and rapers get probation or few years in jail and this totally harmless guy
could get 10 years? Something is seriously wrong with laws (not just in Australia, worldwide).
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MrDoctor
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We have a tendency to feed people to the machine here. police give out fines and charges haphazardly because "if they are innocent they have nothing
to fear" attitude.
Theres cases of course where people have walked away from 90 year potential sentences too simply because the laws dont reflect current attitude, so on
the other hand, common sense can also prevail, and usually does, but only usually.
My guess is that he went over the limit by using the wrong limits. Law is rather difficult to enterpret. theres two seperate documents that currently
define the law for distilling ethanol, and one pretty much says its ok while the other says its not, the former is worded so ambiguously it sounds as
if a permit, or limitations only apply when making consumable spirits, commercially. The latter is buried deep in a collection of acts and is hard to
find without knowing it by name.
I would bet, based on the events that unfolded that he went by the nuclear material USE limits, which themselves require permits which assume things
like commercial laboratory, licensing, etc, the permit wouldnt be approved otherwise. theres lower absolute possession limits too that assume no
useage, just holding it.
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FableP
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The way the system of radiation regulation in Australia works is that if there are radioactive substances on a site, the site requires a registration.
As part of the site registration there is a requirement to have a licensee who is responsible for the radioactive substances. These requirements only
apply if your radioactive substance is in excess of the exemption limits which are quite small. For example most school check sources you can buy are
just below the exemption limit so schools can hold them without having to worry about registration and licensing.
That is all well and good for low activity sources in Australia, but once you try to import an isotope (regardless of activity) the rules change.
There is a permitting system for importation of radioactive goods which is administered by ARPANSA, the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear
Safety Agency.
If a radioactive source is transported properly it will be identified as such and picked up at Customs on the way into Australia, if there is no
ARPANSA permit the source will not be released and they will investigate the importer.
If the source hadn't been transported properly (such as sent in the regular mail) there is every probability that no one would have been the wiser. I
saw that happen this week in fact.
In addition to all of this there is the Australian Safeguards and Non-Proliferation Office (ASNO) which will require site registration as well because
the material was categorised as "nuclear material" in addition to also being radioactive.
This is likely the point where things went pear shaped for the lad. No permit, no registrations, suspicious isotopes, knee jerk reaction for facebook
clicks and more Gov funding.
The application of the law in this case was extremely heavy handed and likely carried out by jackasses on a power trip.
I'm licensed, and look after a registration, we bring in plenty of stuff into Australia without question or drama including heavy metal isotopes. I've
got a vial of plutonium nitrate in my store among many weird and wonderful radioactive things, there is so much stuff that my main issue is proper
disposal.
That source was nothing more than a curiosity piece.
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MrDoctor
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Quote: Originally posted by FableP  | There is a permitting system for importation of radioactive goods which is administered by ARPANSA, the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear
Safety Agency.
If a radioactive source is transported properly it will be identified as such and picked up at Customs on the way into Australia, if there is no
ARPANSA permit the source will not be released and they will investigate the importer. |
Yes, that is, perhaps the key thing that occurred there. Otherwise it probably wouldnt have been approved for export. Plus if he had been approved for
a permit the news articles would probably mention that key fact.
So, theres no form of plutonium you reckon that is discretely (but legally) importable? small quantities can be possessed for non-use in a collection
but, the importation of anything like that which is very easy to misuse, requires a permit, full stop?
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Precipitates
Hazard to Others
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Perhaps uranium ore (pitchblende)? Of course the plutonium concentration is going to be ridiculously low, and maybe the authorities won't like the
import of a uranium mineral either.
Or just go and find some uranium ore. Plenty of uranium mines in Australia. And see if they will arrest you for having a rock 
I would probably show a uranium mineral as a source of plutonium - anything more than that is perhaps asking for trouble without the proper permits.
Schools will use their sources for education, but individual ownership is much harder to justify. Having a plutonium source just because you want it
probably doesn't cut it.
But, if you want to produce your own sample, i.e., DIY plutonium, the following paper details its extraction from ores containing uranium.
Spoiler alert: you're not going to be able to see your sample, but, with the right equipment, you may just be able to detect it.
Attachment: A Study of Naturally Occurring Plutonium.pdf (1.5MB)
This file has been downloaded 19 times
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FableP
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[/rquote]
So, theres no form of plutonium you reckon that is discretely (but legally) importable? small quantities can be possessed for non-use in a collection
but, the importation of anything like that which is very easy to misuse, requires a permit, full stop? [/rquote]
This is correct. We have liquid standards of various isotopes that are classified as "nuclear material", the activities are so low as to be considered
almost not radioactive, micrograms of material that don't even cross into the kBq range and this still needs import permits and ASNO registration
Some of the Pu sources in long term storage, very old and not used.
![IMG20250327112325[1].jpg - 1.7MB](http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=700008&aid=105556)
[Edited on 28-3-2025 by FableP]
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MrDoctor
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meanwhile my porch is covered in thorium dust as i burn through tig welder electrodes i just buy from bunnings, when i have to do repairs on rusty
contaminated steel.
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vertexrocketry
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it is 98% sulfuric acid almost no yellowing quite pure for the price
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vertexrocketry
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dg just means it is by ground transport only and auspost pays higher insurance.
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