Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Home made chlorine donors

raiden - 6-2-2008 at 03:35

Just trying to open a discussion on what people who don't have easy access to the conventional Chlorine donors use? I live in Australia and have no access to Parlon or Saran. I have heard good things about PVC glue? Surely there must be a solution.

quicksilver - 6-2-2008 at 07:55

It depends on the context as (in a "pyrotech" context) a chlorate itself could be said to be a chlorine donor (Herbert Ellison). The utilization of Saran does not necessarily have to be in powdered form if the deflagration or the donor is in continuum (as in a wrapping of Saran).

However remember that these names are trade names: Parlon is the trade name from Hercules Powder company for chlorinated powdered rubber and there are some products that may be the same with another name while Saran Wrap is real Saran but other companies make cling wrap that may NOT be Saran, & so forth...

[Edited on 6-2-2008 by quicksilver]

hashashan - 6-2-2008 at 08:04

try DCB, it can be easily purchased anywhere as moth retardant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Dichlorobenzene

well apparently i cant write the link with the comma so just copy paste it

[Edited on 6-2-2008 by hashashan]

-jeffB - 6-2-2008 at 11:11

Quote:
Originally posted by quicksilver
It depends on the context as (in a "pyrotech" context) a chlorate itself could be said to be a chlorine donor (Herbert Ellison). The utilization of Saran does not necessarily have to be in powdered form if the deflagration or the donor is in continuum (as in a wrapping of Saran).

However remember that these names are trade names: Parlon is the trade name from Hercules Powder company for chlorinated powdered rubber and there are some products that may be the same with another name while Saran Wrap is real Saran but other companies make cling wrap that may NOT be Saran, & so forth...

[Edited on 6-2-2008 by quicksilver]


Unfortunately, Saran Wrap is not real Saran any more. :(

http://www.saranbrands.com/faq.asp#2

I'm sure it's lovely for Dow to reduce their "ecological footprint", but now where can I turn for a plastic wrap that's oxygen-impermeable? :mad:

ordenblitz - 6-2-2008 at 16:57

The proper saran used in pyrotechnics, Dow Saran 506, is dissimilar to the polymer used in the films. Saran 506 was created to be used in the reclamation of lost material in the production of the film polymer. It is the only powdered saran that functions as a good chlorine donor in pyrotechnics. It is only slightly better performing than parlon and probably not worth going out of your way to get.

While you wont find it at the local supermarket anymore, true saran films are still available in large quantity for commercial use usually through restaurant suppliers. There is no equal film for oxygen barrier duty so it is still used.

Is is mentioned above to employ dichlorobenzene but I would recommend hexachloroethane instead as its a much better Cl donor. You could also try chlorowax it has similar performance to parlon.

By the way other brand names for parlon are, superchlon, chlorub and pergut.

raiden - 6-2-2008 at 21:22

Thanks for the replies. It seems that the only donor I can actually find is DCB, however it is only around 50 percent Cl. Can follow Australians just U2U me some ideas if you don't want to disclose? I will try and track down Hexachloroe thane - maybe an Aluminium plant can help me out. Cheers

Bert - 6-2-2008 at 22:57

For that matter, fluorine will help with the colors as well. Powdered Teflon, for instance.

[Edited on by Bert]

Axt - 7-2-2008 at 00:11

You could try chloranil made via paracetamol (aka. panadol in AU) + HCl + xNO3. Wont say anything of stability in pyrotechnic comps though. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9424

I've crudely mixed chloranil with Zn in roughly stoichiometric proportions to ZnCl2, and it will sustain deflagration, with much smoke.

[Edited on 7-2-2008 by Axt]

PHILOU Zrealone - 7-2-2008 at 04:54

-Metal chlorides, chlorates, perchlorates, chloroacetates, dichloroacetates, trichloroacetates
-Hexachloroethane (made out of Cl2C=CCl2 + Cl2 in the sun)
Sylla made this last summer and got plenty white cristals out of the liquid. He found an OTC source of TCE in "Sassy" organic cleaner solvent.
-Isocyanuric acid trichloride
-cyanuric acid trichloride
...

raiden - 7-2-2008 at 13:59

HCE sounds promising now. Was Sassy in Au or America? Also, doesn't trichloro isocyanuric acid decompose when it contacts water?

PHILOU Zrealone - 10-2-2008 at 06:54

Quote:
Originally posted by raiden
HCE sounds promising now. Was Sassy in Au or America? Also, doesn't trichloro isocyanuric acid decompose when it contacts water?


About Sassy,
I don't know if that brand is sold elsewhere in the world...exist in Belgium and France

About isocyanuric acid trichloride, yes it decompose in contact with water or air moisture, what sounds normal because it is an acid chloride...but so far I have understood the chlorine donor problematic, it was under dry and warm (red heat) conditions found in burning pyrotechnics...this is not really the place I would expect to find water.
On an other side it is corrosive to metals... and fire comburant so this must be taken in account.
More than certainly uncompatible with Aluminium /Zinc powder accounting the fact only traces of HCl can eat through releasing a lot of heat...

[Edited on 10-2-2008 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Splinky - 10-2-2008 at 07:13

There is a thread about this over on APC, someone mentioned testing PVC glue and having comparable performance to pure PVC.