Sciencemadness Discussion Board - help to discovering an interesting use for sulfamic acid

help to discovering an interesting use for sulfamic acid

menchaca - 7-10-2003 at 05:18

I´ve got acces to sulfamic acid and I would like to know some interesting use for it...

I´ve thought in H2SO4 manufacture, amines or something so

thanks!!

IPN - 7-10-2003 at 06:22

Well, sulfamic acid is needed in the preparation of nitramides...

Microtek - 7-10-2003 at 07:48

Yes there was a method for making ammonium dinitramide from it... It can also be used for RDX synthesis if energetic materials interests you.

Sulfamic acid

chloric1 - 8-10-2003 at 21:19

Well you can make heavy metal salts for electroplating said metals(nickel sulfamamte, lead sulfamate) as ALL sulfamates are water soluble. I have read a pyrotech mixture with potassium chlorate produces a SO3 smokescreen but the hazards in this proceedure are obvious. For one SO3 is distructive to lungs and you do NOT want to have ANY chlorate in an acidic condtion. I have not tried this but if you decide to use the mixture PROMPTLY as you do NOT want to store it.

menchaca - 10-10-2003 at 18:49

ummm..... i think i´m interested in the way to rdx..... where can i find some information about it?i´m interested in ammonium nitramide too

IPN - 10-10-2003 at 23:39

Here is a rather easy preparation by Alchemist:

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threa...

Although you will need dry ice and +90% HNO3

KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun) - 11-10-2003 at 20:22

the smoke comp becomes acidic <b>after</b> burning. the salt isn't acidic by itself nor unstable.

Tacho - 5-1-2004 at 06:00

Sulfamic acid and NaNo2 produce nitrogen gas.

http://mattson.creighton.edu/AllGases.html

I love this site, it describes the microscale production of 17 gasses.

OTC sources

moo409 - 5-1-2004 at 18:02

where are you getting this acid from? are you buying it chemically or in an over-the-counter product? I am aware that the product "Lime Away" contains sulfamic acid...though im not aware of its purity, its worth looking into.

Production of Gases from Sufamic Acid

Acid Test - 6-1-2004 at 12:17

I would think it would be useless and a waste
of expensive chemicals to produce gases on
a microscale and especially gases that are
going to be dissolved in a liquid.
Even still if there is another way to create
gases on a macroscale then why waste chemicals
for the production of these gases.

Nick F - 7-1-2004 at 10:25

I have a sneaky suspicion that it could be reacted with urea (molten) to produce guanidine sulphate....
I still haven't got round to testing the product that I ended up with though.
I'm sure there's another use that hasn't been mentioned yet... I'll let you know if I remember it.

another interesting use

Polverone - 7-1-2004 at 12:59

Lead sulfamate is extremely soluble. Sulfamic acid is therefore useful for dissolving lead (and then doing whatever sorts of things you'd like to use a very soluble lead salt for).

I don't have any pure lead around at the moment, just airgun pellets. I found that to get them to dissolve in sulfamic acid I first needed to add a bit of hydrogen peroxide and heat the solution, and that very concentrated solutions will not attack the lead.

If nothing else, the resulting lead sulfamate solution can easily be used as a simple qualitative test for the presence of carbonate/sulfate/halide (any anion that pairs with lead to make low-solubility compounds).

Given the very high solubility of the sulfamate, I suspect one could even precipitate lead nitrate by the addition of a second nitrate salt, boiling, and cooling. But I'll have to make some more before I can test that idea. I would presume one could also use the sulfamate in the place of acetate or nitrate in preparing lead azide.

Hermes_Trismegistus - 8-1-2004 at 13:19

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Acid Test
I would think it would be useless and a waste
of expensive chemicals to produce gases on
a microscale and especially ......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Y'Know, Acid Test, not all of US feel the one and only, good and proper use of chemicals is to make mind-bendering controlled substances eh? Maybe "waste" is the wrong word?.

Thanks Tacho, for the intel, for the lowbrows!(like me)

froot - 10-5-2004 at 11:56

I found a drain cleaner containing sulfamic acid, but it also contains deodorisers and other arb stuff. It comes as a mixture of flakes and pellets/powder. Would there be an easy way to extract the pure sulfamic acid from the rest?

jimwig - 30-5-2004 at 16:27

sulfamic acid is tile cleaner
source the big orange store
one pound around $5USD.

much cheaper from chem supply but not as near.

froot - 29-9-2004 at 09:07

In the 'Chemistry and Technology of Explosives vol 3 by Urbanski' there is a procedure using sulphamic acid to produce RDX.
To sum it up it says that potassium salt of sulfamic acid is reacted with formaldehyde and the product is reacted with nitric acid.
The nitrating mixture is said to be 80% HNO3 and 20% SO3 which means there will be a presence of H2SO4 which apparently won't attack the RDX as long as the mixture remains anhydrous. This is known as the 'w method'.
This is a method I've never seen discussed before and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this synth.
Am I correct in assuming that the 'potassium salt of sulfamic acid is potassium sulfamate and can be produced by reacting KOH and sulfamic acid?

lead sulfamate -» lead dioxide electrodes