hi hopefully somebody can help me, the other day i was playing around and discharged a cannister via a hose into a bottle which contained a small
amount of H2O saturated with NaOH, after a few short bursts the liquid in the bottle started to 'tinkle' quite loudly constantly for about 20 minutes,
there was very minimal bubbling, and the bottle remained close to room temperature, maybe very slightly cooler, with no visible change in the
contents..
btw cannister was cfc free..
just wondering what was causing this quite pleasant noise?YT2095 - 28-10-2007 at 05:05
little tiny explosions of liquid to gas transition, usually occurs at very small nucleation sites under the liquid.chemrox - 28-10-2007 at 10:42
It happens almost anytime you have KOH or NaOH in a glass container and you wash it out with water. The intense heat of solvation at the above
mentioned tiny nucleation sites make the water boil microscopically. Which is what YT2095 said. I don't understand what you were doing though. What
reax made the cannister fly?WorldBromination - 28-10-2007 at 15:25
Quote:
Originally posted by chemrox
It happens almost anytime you have KOH or NaOH in a glass container and you wash it out with water.
I have washed NaOH out of glass containers many times and have never heard this before
Quote:
The intense heat of solvation at the above mentioned tiny nucleation sites make the water boil microscopically. Which is what YT2095 said. I don't
understand what you were doing though.
how does the water boil microscopically without raising the temp? the freezing effect from discharging the cannister was lost within at most a minute
IIRC yet the quite aggresive and loud tinkeling noise continues for 15-20 minutes.
Quote:
What reax made the cannister fly?
im not sure what you mean..
suggestions of keywords to search to understand the process of what is occuring?
as you can see from my joining date I registered to ask this specific question, I have no formal chem education rather a recent found interest since
moving to a more relaxed lifestyle than I am used to, and while lurking in the background have found SM to be a very helpfull and informative.
appreciate you both taking time to try and help
[Edited on 28-10-2007 by WorldBromination]Eclectic - 28-10-2007 at 18:45
There may be language issues here: "discharged a cannister"
Discharged a cannister of what? What do you mean by "cannister"?WorldBromination - 28-10-2007 at 21:02
a pressurised aerosol canister, cfc free, like deodorant, bug spray, hair spray, mr sheen, spray paint etc etc come in, however it was only a small
one. hose connected to nozzle and running into bottle with H²O/NaOH..
just tried it again with H2O and butane, sounded like coke in a glass..no where near as loud, reasonable bubbling, lasted roughly a minute, nothing
like what happened the other day.
[Edited on 28-10-2007 by WorldBromination]woelen - 28-10-2007 at 23:59
Is this canister made of aluminium? If so, then the noiuse could also be due to formation of hydrogen gas from aluminium and NaOH.WorldBromination - 29-10-2007 at 00:30
canister didnt come in contact with the NaOH, only the end of the hose (pvc) did.Antwain - 29-10-2007 at 00:35
@woelen- Doubt it, playing with the integrity of pressurised cans leads to large explosions, not small crackles. Also, he used a hose.
@worldbromination- what exactly was the can (ie. what product). The propellant would have been butane almost certainly but maybe propane. This will
not react with water/NaOH so if this caused the noise then it was boiling. since I don't know what else was in the can I can't guess as to other
reactions that may have occurred.WorldBromination - 29-10-2007 at 00:56
yes it probably helps alot, my bad
2-(hydroxymethyl)-4-[1-hydroxy-2-(tert-butylamino)ethyl]phenol as a sulfateAntwain - 29-10-2007 at 01:07
well, apart from hydrolysis of the sulfate, i can't see how that could react with NaOH. BTW what is that product used for? I don't think I have ever
seen it myself.YT2095 - 29-10-2007 at 03:38
I Very strongly doubt this is due to any Chemical reaction at all, but rather metastable states and nucleation.
and you`re quite right, Coke won`t do it, but Champagne can and does, but that`s largely down to Viscosity.
that "pinking" sound can occur at Elevated temperatures also, that`s why it`s a good idea to put ceramic or glass chips in the bottom of flasks when
boiling (it provides nucleation sites).
boil some water in a Microwave, then add some sugar (Carefully!) it`ll almost Jump out the coffee mug.
try the same again without the NaOH WorldBromination - 29-10-2007 at 13:39
well since the bubbles just burst on my grandeous plans of making $$millions$$ by patenting the next gen of
"SNOW GLOBE - TINKELS in STEREO" and im starting to realise it was a bit premature spending all that money trademarking "I cant believe it's not
windchime"
I guess theres not much left to do but thank all for your input.
Antwain - not sure if its because we are lazy down under and use shorter names whenever possible or if its because its hard for someone in the middle
of an athsma attack to ask "hey does anybody have a cannister of 2-(hydroxymethyl)-4-[1-hydroxy-2-(tert-butylamino)ethyl]phenol as a sulfate on them?
ive left mine at home dammit!" but pretty sure you would have seen it around, its also known as ventolin..
