Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Guess who just got raided boys

Daffodile - 17-8-2018 at 19:12

Was walking through house, saw someone in front yard. Went outside, found 4 officers coming up stairs. Bit awkward. They asked if I lived there, they explained why they showed up.

Apparently neighbor saw me doing reaction on porch, and today their suspicions of there being an illicit drug lab were confirmed when they saw me shooting pizza box with bow and arrow back in my yard.

Police came and saw lab/notes/bow and left. But it goes to show the fantasies that grow in people's heads when they see chemistry shit. "You're making Cyanamide? What does it do? What is it for? Why chemistry when there are so many other options?" Fuck.

A big part of this was the bow and arrow, they called off operation when they found it. Can anyone actually imagine a drug lab guarded by dudes with replica midieval weapons? "Tyrone, send these niggas a volley". The meme is true.

Still pretty shaken up but yeah guys keep a lab notebook you won't regret it.

[Edited on 18-8-2018 by Daffodile]

Bert - 17-8-2018 at 19:29

Good thing it wasn't a LONG bow.

Which country?

[Edited on 8-18-2018 by Bert]

JJay - 17-8-2018 at 19:58

How do you think they would have responded if you'd required them to sign a non-disclosure agreement to see your lab notebook?

Deathunter88 - 17-8-2018 at 22:49

This honestly sounds pretty reasonable to me. What if you HAD been manufacturing explosives or drugs? After all, the police are responding to a concerned neighbor. Also, not sure this really counts as "getting raided", but more of a check in by the police to make sure nothing illegal is going on.

arkoma - 18-8-2018 at 15:41

Somewhere on this forum is a post I put up about three and a half years ago of a very similar incident in Nevada. Nosey neighbors. Police and fire trucks. My lab notebook is what SAVED MY ASS. They straight told me that folks keeping notes were not generally who they needed to worry about. Glad it worked out for you.

Loptr - 18-8-2018 at 16:29

This also seems to fit inline with how it usually happens. Somebody gets suspicious and calls the police.

Keep it above board and use some common sense. That's all.

JJay - 18-8-2018 at 17:27

If they come and visit like that, it's called a "knock and talk." It's standard police procedure. Their objectives are 1. see if you confess to anything 2. see if you have any knowledge that will help them solve crimes 3. see if there is any evidence of crime in plain view 4. gain consent for entry.

I'm pretty sure they have to gain consent for warrantless entry on a knock and talk in all common law jurisdictions. In the U.S., you can't be required to answer any questions. I'm not sure about in other countries.

There are at least two similar situations. In a welfare check, the police can actually gain entry without a warrant if they think you are in danger, but they can't use any evidence that they find in criminal proceedings against you (at least in the U.S.). They do have to listen to you if you tell them to go away.

If they have a search warrant, they can enter without consent, detain everyone in the area, conduct a search, seize evidence, and arrest people if they have evidence of a crime.

If they have an arrest warrant, they may do something like a knock and talk but with more teeth. I'm not exactly sure what the rules are, but police departments are very bureaucratic and compartmentalized... I've heard stories of people getting raided for fraud and being handed back their drugs by the police mid-raid before being asked to come down to the station.

Daffodile - 19-8-2018 at 21:28

I live in Canada, in Victoria, BC. Honestly I get the chemistry suspicion thing but it has been brought to my attention that the neighbors were terrified that I owned a bow and arrow, and thats the only thing that surprises me in hindsight. Since I'm a university student (fairly young) I imagined that this sort of shenanigan was commonplace. But it is Canada, after all. I guess all of that died when they started teaching boys to dress up as girls and dye their hair instead of messing around with sticks and treehouses.

Honestly I am really impressed by my local police force, the more interactions I have, the more convinced I am that they are real solid dudes. Although I was nervous at the time ("raid" was an exaggeration, I admit) and their obvious intent was to sponge me for anything potentially incriminating, Apart from one blockhead, the general attitude was that they were genuinely concerned that a misunderstanding was creating neighborhood tension (albeit some allowance to caution). Any tricks or tactics employed were just the least confrontational way to judge if the situation was okay. I know that there are some libertarians on here who may disagree, and that likely wouldn't like the idea of cops on their property, but I'm just saying it how I see it.

Yeah so overall I should go back on the tones of my original post and say that it was really fine. They made an attempt to make me less nervous by asking interested questions (I don't care if they were forced, it was a nice gesture) such as "How long did it take you to make the bow? Must have been a lot of work. Did you have to steam it? What kind of wood? Etc". And they made an effort to be polite/ grateful when I offered to show them my lab and notebook (although I think there was some tension when I tried to explain the chemistry of what I'm doing to the officers with no chemical background). So yeah it was aight. My biggest concern would be that they would make extrapolations based on what I had there, I once had a guy get super heated since he saw me with Acetone or Iodine or something they had in breaking bad.

Loptr - 20-8-2018 at 06:36

Quote: Originally posted by Daffodile  
I live in Canada, in Victoria, BC. Honestly I get the chemistry suspicion thing but it has been brought to my attention that the neighbors were terrified that I owned a bow and arrow, and thats the only thing that surprises me in hindsight. Since I'm a university student (fairly young) I imagined that this sort of shenanigan was commonplace. But it is Canada, after all. I guess all of that died when they started teaching boys to dress up as girls and dye their hair instead of messing around with sticks and treehouses.

Honestly I am really impressed by my local police force, the more interactions I have, the more convinced I am that they are real solid dudes. Although I was nervous at the time ("raid" was an exaggeration, I admit) and their obvious intent was to sponge me for anything potentially incriminating, Apart from one blockhead, the general attitude was that they were genuinely concerned that a misunderstanding was creating neighborhood tension (albeit some allowance to caution). Any tricks or tactics employed were just the least confrontational way to judge if the situation was okay. I know that there are some libertarians on here who may disagree, and that likely wouldn't like the idea of cops on their property, but I'm just saying it how I see it.

Yeah so overall I should go back on the tones of my original post and say that it was really fine. They made an attempt to make me less nervous by asking interested questions (I don't care if they were forced, it was a nice gesture) such as "How long did it take you to make the bow? Must have been a lot of work. Did you have to steam it? What kind of wood? Etc". And they made an effort to be polite/ grateful when I offered to show them my lab and notebook (although I think there was some tension when I tried to explain the chemistry of what I'm doing to the officers with no chemical background). So yeah it was aight. My biggest concern would be that they would make extrapolations based on what I had there, I once had a guy get super heated since he saw me with Acetone or Iodine or something they had in breaking bad.


I am glad to hear it turned out alright. Just be mindful that this might not be the end of it. Think of the authorities as a sensor net. They report back and it gets processed and follow on decisions made, so still be careful.

Daffodile - 20-8-2018 at 12:00

Yeah I am a bit concerned about that but when they left the talking one said that he didn't think or see a reason for them ever to come back, and that set my mind at ease, although hopefully not too much.

diddi - 20-8-2018 at 14:17

there is an extensive thread here on the australian raiding experience. seems most of our raids are initiated by customs notifications on glassware imports.

learningChem - 30-8-2018 at 14:39

Ah the police states in so called 'developed' countries are quite an amazing achievment . Exactly what a highly ignorant public 'educated' by the state would support.

Herr Haber - 31-8-2018 at 03:06

Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  
Ah the police states in so called 'developed' countries are quite an amazing achievment . Exactly what a highly ignorant public 'educated' by the state would support.


Russian joke:
Do you know why policemen are always three ?
The first one knows how to read, the second one knows how to write. The third one is just happy to be in the company of such intelligent people.

learningChem - 1-9-2018 at 14:11

Herr Haber, haha! Thanks you just made my day =)

Of course that's backwards russia, not the Western Free World where sheep are Really Truly Free.

Panda - 9-9-2018 at 14:31

That's just crazy! Sometimes science lovers can have tough times like these. I hope the police apologized for causing any disruptions in your daily routine.

symboom - 10-9-2018 at 10:28

Experiment responsibility. Kind of like drink responsibly
The moral of this story

http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2017/08/how-to-end-up-in-jail...
Fellow amature chemist blog
Quote from blog
Surely home chemists on the interwebz have some advice as to how to avoid Mr. Coble's fate and still conduct chemical experiments in their residence?


Quote "the judge has the nerve to say, “I hope you can get back on track after serving your sentence and get into something that uses your intelligence"

Hobby chemistry is banned in texas
https://amp.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/4hbqoo/hobby_che...


news stories shows public preception of amature chemistry.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/12/02/lsquoi-bought-nuke-p...
Buying nuclear material united nuclear

https://www.newsweek.com/peddling-poison-107327?amp=1
Directly at united nuclear. Hobby chemistry

https://m.slashdot.org/story/36929
Hobby chemistry

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/get-geeky-gifts-glow-6C10402...
United nuclear

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25103941
Ironic bbc is the only one with good things to say
Im suprised out of all the news stations england the country with seemingly the stricktest laws against chemicals


the fascinating stories tucked away in the history of chemistry. Like Georgy de Hevesy concealing his friends' solid gold Nobel Prize medals from Nazis. He didn't want to risk burying them or simply hiding them somewhere. So he used chemistry. He dissolved the medals in a mixture of hydrochloric and nitric acid, and then he popped the bottles on the shelves of his laboratory, hiding them in plain sight.

The Nazi troopers, hunting for loot, marched straight past them. Then in 1945, De Hevesy used another simple bit of chemistry to recover the gold. He returned the metal to the Nobel prize committee who had those medals recast and returned to their rightful owners.

Those are the demonstrations that fire imaginations and fuel a love of chemistry. Those are the stories that kill chemophobia.



[Edited on 10-9-2018 by symboom]

[Edited on 10-9-2018 by symboom]

[Edited on 11-9-2018 by symboom]

JJay - 10-9-2018 at 10:50

I think the police were concerned because there was evidence that he'd caused multiple fires previously. He may have been inexperienced, but after catching his apartment on fire twice, he should have realized that what he was doing was dangerous.

macckone - 10-9-2018 at 12:17

If something catches on fire, you are likely doing it wrong.
Unless it is bbq or flambe.

The jersey rebel - 26-11-2018 at 17:09

Haven't been raided but I'm certain that was only because my neighbors felt extremely uncomfortable reporting me because they knew me and I was a massive figure in the community I used to live at so they likely feared unintended consequences or backlash. I'll admit straight up that if not for that, I absolutely would've been incarcerated because amateur chemistry is super illegal here where I'm from and people have been Swatted or even killed over their labs. In fact, I use all sorts of software to evade detection by the feds for that very reason and because my research seems to almost constantly get me in trouble with my ISP.

DrP - 27-11-2018 at 02:32

Quote: Originally posted by The jersey rebel  
if not for that, I absolutely would've been incarcerated because amateur chemistry is super illegal here where I'm from and people have been Swatted or even killed over their labs.


Killed? Where do you live, North Korea?

arkoma - 27-11-2018 at 11:32

@Symboom.

Your supposition about home chemistry being "banned" in Texas is erroneous. Yes, Texas does want you to tell the cops if you have glass. One of our moderators lives in Texas, and reported a very low key, friendly contact with the police over glass. Yes, a bit intrusive, but not a ban by any stretch.

symboom - 27-11-2018 at 15:48

Quote
Hobby chemistry is effectively banned in Texas. Sending this letter to the Governor.
My mistake
I just restarted the title which has a different context.

Melgar - 27-11-2018 at 21:16

Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by The jersey rebel  
if not for that, I absolutely would've been incarcerated because amateur chemistry is super illegal here where I'm from and people have been Swatted or even killed over their labs.


Killed? Where do you live, North Korea?

You couldn't tell from his location tag and name? Obviously he lives in the middle of a massive superfund site.

DrP - 28-11-2018 at 02:30

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  
Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by The jersey rebel  
if not for that, I absolutely would've been incarcerated because amateur chemistry is super illegal here where I'm from and people have been Swatted or even killed over their labs.


Killed? Where do you live, North Korea?

You couldn't tell from his location tag and name? Obviously he lives in the middle of a massive superfund site.


I thought he might be sporting a controversial bright new jumper.

Yea - it's clear - but they kill you there for home chemistry? I find that hard to believe. I can't have understood him properly.

dawt - 15-1-2022 at 02:14

This seems a fitting thread as any to report my recent raid. I just moved into a new apartment a few months ago and my new asshole neighbor thought my hot pepper plants (which I kept under artificial lighting since I no longer have a garden) was a weed farm. I had four cops ring the doorbell around 9 am while I was working from home. Two detectives and two others acting as muscle. The misunderstanding was quickly resolved, but of course they looked around the apartment and found my chemicals, I explained what they were for and that was that. They left again after less than 10 minutes.
I'm not so sure it would've gone so smoothly had my neighbor reported a suspicious lab instead, so I'm not really sure how to proceed... For the last 15 years I've always just worked with an open window and never had any trouble, but I guess I'll have to figure out something else now.

Mistaken Identity

MadHatter - 15-1-2022 at 12:09

Dawt, your neighbor must be a complete moron. Pepper plants look nothing like
weed. Sounds like weed growing is outlawed in your locale. Where I live it's
perfectly legal with some restrictions. The whole neighborhood smells like a skunk
during the growing season around here. I had a similar experience with an asshole
room mate some years ago. He tried to get the cops to bust me for my lab
chemicals out of revenge. The cops weren't even interested although I offered to
show them my lab. Even they knew, from repeated calls, that the idiot was a
trouble making drunk.


[Edited on 2022/1/15 by MadHatter]

AngelEyes - 17-1-2022 at 05:03

I can vouch for the lab notebook being the key thing here between an actual chemist and a ne'er-do-well. I had a visit from the police in Oct 2020 and I'm pretty sure it was my notebook that persuaded them I was not doing anything terrorist related.

You can read the full story here, about half way down:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=154800...

And like the OP, I was grassed on by my neighbours who saw something they didn't understand and jumped straight to the "he must be making b*mbs!!" conclusion.

Cheers

Angel.

BlackPowderBoy - 13-11-2022 at 01:17

This is why I'm very hesitant about doing chemistry in the ole backyard without any coverings. I've still avoided making things like nitric acid or things meant to do in open air just because I know people are nosy.

[Edited on 13-11-2022 by BlackPowderBoy]

XeonTheMGPony - 24-11-2022 at 19:35

Quote: Originally posted by BlackPowderBoy  
This is why I'm very hesitant about doing chemistry in the ole backyard without any coverings. I've still avoided making things like nitric acid or things meant to do in open air just because I know people are nosy.

[Edited on 13-11-2022 by BlackPowderBoy]


Humans are 99.98% of the problem for most with an IQ above room temperature!

ManyInterests - 2-12-2022 at 20:51

This is why I cover my balcony with some kind of covering to prevent people from seeing it. My current setup needs work since I cut the cloth (I use cheap shower curtains) too short and it flaps around like crazy when it is windy, I need to fasten it down.

I can get away with doing that without drawing suspicious since I know many neighbors that also do the same. If asked I can just point to them and say 'they did it, why not me?'.

arkoma - 2-12-2022 at 23:29

My current notebook was started seven years ago. It is a bound book of the type you can tell if a page has been torn out, and written in ink with times and dates. It's far from perfect, but not only can I check yields etc from each variation of how i've synthed isopropyl nitrite, it is the best declaration of my intentions with this hobby/avocation.

Keep records folks, I might think even MORE so for the EM hobbyists. Far cry from a pyrotechnic enthusiast to a terr, but how can you establish prior intentions? Records.

My ten cents.

BlackPowderBoy - 2-12-2022 at 23:43

Yeah I've been thinking recently about getting some tarps and making a little work station in the corner of my yard.

Also yes Arkoma and Xeon, Preach!
I've got a journal but it is seldom written in. Bad practice, I gotta get on that. :o

[Edited on 3-12-2022 by BlackPowderBoy]

Fantasma4500 - 11-2-2023 at 04:19

well- theyre desperate to find some action, many ended up working as police because they wanted to do the right thing. some of them arent very smart and they end up deluded and brainwashed. some of the truly heroic ones that knows right from wrong end up bitter and sadistic from stress. and naturally some of them injecting confiscated steroids and "verifying" substances on a daily basis live in a yet worse sadistic egotrip state
and then add into that quotas- thats a huge part of the problem, forcibly criminalizing society because they HAVE to find suspects
the ones with robotic facial expressions are the ones most likely to be humble, but also most likely to be abusive. people messing with EM's really just have the same desire for action as the ones coming to stir trouble- maybe with a typically more intellectual drive. i have known multiple people ending up behind bars where they would prior to being thrown in get warnings- and i told them to take it as warnings. they kept pushing their luck and the trap snapped. its always a bad idea to openly share with sorrounding public what you do with your free time if youre anything but average- people fear what they cannot understand. people can end up jealous realizing you can do something they can never wrap their heads around- yet in less developed countries, even in the west, you may come across a police chief that thinks blowing up dynamite in your backyard to send water far up in the air is really cool

but surely, the times are getting tighter- but on the bright side society is shifting a lot lately, every workplace is screaming for more workers, this means less police to enforce legislation
when going out to buy just barely suspicious stuff, youre in luck if you have a job that requires safety clothing, this somehow makes you seem more average and less intelligent and voila it nullifies suspicion

you can really just have bad luck, i have gotten a visit after a drugged up neighbour wanted to lend a fuse since he blew his fuses by cranking up his speakers too high. drug/steroid induced schizophrenic psychosis had him convince himself he smelled all sorts of weird things at my doorway, pridened himself with having a military background he made a call and later that night they proved to have taken a crackaddict seriously. i ended up paying 3000 euros in court but got a bit of joy back when i noticed they had confiscated my solution of sodium fluoride- mouth wash, and had put it on a list of "toxic chemicals" found in my possession which was not properly stored- rendering it illegal.

if they havent visited you yet, take my advice and dont test your luck. the system will never forget you again. if you feel like they have come a bit too close, thats your warning. roll back a bit and take extra precautions