I had a strange dream where a ground rod was connected to a plastic chamber full of charcoal and at the bottompart of the ground rod went into the
chamber on top another rod exited from the chamber never touching each other with a good 20 inches between them full of carbon ........
IN the area where ai live there are many thunder storms and I'm hoping to catch one .....my theory is that since charcoal can conduct electricity
...nothing will happen , also maybe with the conduction of so much electricity it will squeeze the atoms so closethat it will crystalize ....into a
crystal carbon .....diamonds?............what a dreamer!
Any thoughts of what might happen?........soloThe_Davster - 12-6-2007 at 16:46
Firstly, I absolutly LOVE this idea. Anything involving lightning is madscience
I remember reading that buckyballs are formed when arcs are formed between graphite rods, similar may occur here due to the arc formed. If diamond
does not form, or as an impurity. In reality I imagine all sorts of things would form, the ends of your metal rods would melt contaminating the
carbon reaction mixture, potentially forming some weird metal-carbon compounds.
I would say, if you can build a tower big enough to attract lightning, and can leave it up for a long time waiting for lightning, do it. garage chemist - 12-6-2007 at 16:53
Launch a model rocket that carries a long thin wire upwards into the clouds. The wire is connected to whatever you want to vaporize.
Thats how scientists produce lightning strikes on demand during thunderstorms- I once saw it on TV.The_Davster - 12-6-2007 at 17:09
Cool so a thin wire would work, I suppose all the lightning needs is any conductor at all to get started, then it just follows the path.
There is a 'severe thunderstorm warning' here tonight.
I wish there was enough open space around here to try this...I am in suburbia.
(doubt I have the balls to do this unfortunatly )
[Edited on 12-6-2007 by The_Davster]12AX7 - 12-6-2007 at 19:01
Nickel and iron!
(I'd laugh at myself, but that reaction is more of a mystery than a joke!)
TimDrP - 13-6-2007 at 02:20
Let us know how it goes if you give it a try - sounds like an excellent experiment that will be a great laugh to do. A bit dangerous though, but I'm
sure you know what your doing. Good luck!!! Alot of the scientific greats had their best ideas in their sleep and woke up to write them all down.Nerro - 13-6-2007 at 03:13
Build some sort of timed delay for the rocket. Otherwise you die
Why would C become denser as it heats? I would expect it to vaporize and form nanotubes and buckyballs...unionised - 13-6-2007 at 09:21
For diamonds you would still need a lot of pressure. Diamond is not the most energetically stable form of carbon. Over an unfathomable amount of
time, diamond will revert back into graphite. If this experiment were to work, you would probably wind up with a great deal of fullerines and
graphite.solo - 13-6-2007 at 11:57
I acquired a one meter glass tube of 3inch diameter borosilicate glass in which I will fill with charcoal and activated charcoal and housed in a 3"
PVC pipe,......with wooden doughnuts holding the rods exiting on both ends one to a ground pipe and the other up in sky.....the plastic housing which
will hold the tube inside will be erected and held up with plastic ropes with tension knucle nuts place tension ....this will be erected on top of a
three story house made of concrete and brick so it will be a good ground. I will keep the rods about 16" apart and the area in between filled with
charcoal used for heating mined in the US and the rest of the void filled with powder activated charcoal..........soloPyridinium - 19-6-2007 at 22:16
I'm really interested to see how this experiment worked. There are so many fascinating possibilities once lightning enters the picture. All kinds of
high energy chemical reactions. Not just high voltage... you get insanely high current too!!!!!YT2095 - 20-6-2007 at 00:16
the rocket launchers are usually triggered remotely with a blow-pipe and pressure switch.
it might be an idea to build a small charge sensor too, a Microamp moving coil meter a pair of germanium diodes and an antenna with a tip made of a
sharp needles (4 in X patern is enough).
if you want an even cruder method you can just use the Antenna, an Earth and a little Mains Neon bulb.
when you get peaks, Then launch your rocket.
it doesn`t Always fire, but you stand a better chance if you can wait your time and launch then, rather than waste loads of engines on guess work.
edit: and I don`t know about the Diamond thing, and somehow doubt it would work, but if you use Sand and make Fulgerites instead, they sell for quite
a bit!
make enough selling them on eBay and you can Buy a Diamond
[Edited on 20-6-2007 by YT2095]olmpiad - 22-6-2007 at 19:00
Slow down there YT. Natural fulgurites are hard enough to find on the market as it is without your mass-marketing suggestions (trust me, as an avid
collector of minerals, I'd know).
That is a good suggestion for the charge sensor btw!unionised - 23-6-2007 at 13:40
I take it that you all looked at the phase diagram on the page I cited so you know I was joking about the pressure you need. If you did this
experiment with diamonds you would turn them into graphite very effectively.
Anyway if you do go connecting a glass tube full of anything to a thunderbolt let me know what happens. I'm not sure if you will get vapour or
shrapnel (I can't see you getting anything else).I am a fish - 24-6-2007 at 02:12
Quote:
diamonds?
Very unlikely. Diamond is thermodynamically unstable at atmospheric pressure. Consider the Gibbs energy:
G = U + pV - TS
Diamond formation requires both an increase in energy (U) and a decrease of entropy (S). Both of these will increase G, making the reaction
unfavourable. Increasing the temperature will only make things worse. The only term that works in diamond's favour is pV (due to diamond being
denser and thus decreasing in volume). For this to counteract the other terms, the pressure must be colossal (which is how both artificial and
natural diamonds are formed).
Quote:
Originally posted by The_Davster
Cool so a thin wire would work, I suppose all the lightning needs is any conductor at all to get started, then it just follows the path.
A thin wire would work very well. In fact it may work better than a thicker wire, as it would vapourise and be heated to plasma. Superheated copper
plasma would conduct very nicely.
[Edited on 24-6-2007 by I am a fish]Nicodem - 24-6-2007 at 02:33
A 0.2-0.3 mm copper wire connected with a radioactive tip (from a lightning rod for capturing the lightning) brought to about 100 m above earth with
the help of a hydrogen balloon might be efficient. Connect the other end to your electrode and pray to the gods of heaven.
A thinner wire would likely tear while a thicker one would be too heavy and a larger balloon would be needed.
Do not use helium balloons or you would miss the extra special effects from the burning hydrogen which would add an additional note of scientific
madness to the process.
Experiment on track......
solo - 26-7-2007 at 16:59
I put it together like this with mined coal and filled with activated charcoal....
Put it on top of a three story building , waiting for some wire and ...I got the ballon and the thread there's been plenty of electrical storms
.....none have hit it yet.......solo
Shot with FinePix2650 at 2007-07-26Ozone - 26-7-2007 at 20:09
Cool! *drools* You are off to the races. Is the thing grounded? A little positive streamer action from the ground might help considerably (potential
vs...ground).
I like the "firecracker" look. Oh, and coat the balloon with thermite dope (ala. myth busters--only thin enough (coat) to get it off of the ground).
I'd think you might prefer to use graphite as your carbon source.
It's Alive,
O3
Oh yes! Great picture with the rainbow. Nice shot.
[Edited on 27-7-2007 by Ozone]DeAdFX - 26-7-2007 at 21:17
Hmmm... Does your regular(non activated) charcoal contain a significant portion of organic material? I am wondering if it is possible to form
"exotic" hydrocarbons like Admantane from the reaction? Admantane is structured similarly like hexamine however admantane has no nitrogen in it.YT2095 - 27-7-2007 at 02:20
although it Looks great, I cant help but see a few problems likely to occur, the coal contains plenty flammable hydrocarbons that when gasified are
quite explosive.
so even if you DID make diamonds, they would be spread out several 10`s of metres in every direction and be lost.
Personally I`de dig a pit and put it in there, you`re also closer to and will get a better Ground as well, and you will have the area confined so that
post Strike fragments will be easier to find and examine later.
and even if you Don`t get diamonds, you should have a few Fulgerites
(to sell to olmpiad)Elawr - 27-7-2007 at 16:30
It is also possible to draw lightning by using a powerful laser to create a plasma channel between your target and the thundercloud. CO2 lasers
emitting IR wavelength energy have been used for this.hashashan - 28-7-2007 at 05:26
And then the lighning will travel on your beam right?
mmmmm isnt this laser quite expensive to be used once? It will be destroyed after the lightning hits it .rocket - 28-7-2007 at 05:55
I don't think it would be destroyed if you bounce the laser off a mirror, though i have never heard of lasers being use to get lightning strikes.
[Edited on 28/7/07 by rocket]Nerro - 28-7-2007 at 08:53
A high powered laser in the infrared part of the spectrum (3500 m<sup>-1</sup> IR) would heat up moisture in the air, would that work to
form plasma?
[Edited on 29-7-2007 by Nerro]unionised - 29-7-2007 at 01:47
A laser beam that's absorbed by air strongly eough to form a plasma will not travel through air far enough to trigger a strike. The problem's quite
difficult. At any rate, a balloon on a wire is cheaper than the laser.Ozone - 29-7-2007 at 06:03
Going back to an original mad scientist, how about a kite, kite string and a very fine (fine magnet wire) wire. Hell, put a key on there for
historical value!
As for lasers, the rarification of the air to create your conductive plasma "tube" will require a massively powerful (see expensive) laser. I think
the military (via national labs, don't remember which one) have been experimenting with this. OTOH, any laser passing through air will be ionizing
some of the molecules. The trick would be to ionize enough to be conductive (probably not too many at potentials of several million volts), but not so
many that the energy from you beam is transferred completely (which would kill the range; careful wavelength selection is key here). Maybe IR is not
the range to use?
How about a crazy UV range (N2 type, maybe)?
Cheers,
O3hashashan - 29-7-2007 at 07:52
why not use a rocket?
it is prooven to work so why not?hinz - 31-7-2007 at 05:00
Better use a small kite. The balloon will probably get some problems with the wind present in a thunderstorm. if using a rocket it's important to use
a sophisticated wire unwrap mechanism, which is difficult to build. Imagine you have a wire reel with something like 300m of wire on it. A small
rocket will accelerate to 50-200m/s in one to a few seconds. So the wire reel must be accelerated alot of rpm's in a few seconds and this means alot
of tensile to the wire that will eventualy break.
A kite you can start before the thunderstorm beginns and than you can wait in safe distance till the lightning strikes it, so there won't be any
problems with the rocket ignition and and CATO's with selfbuild rocket engines.
Is there anything like carbon fibre string available? It would be useful in this task as it conducts, so you don't have to use a copper wire coaxial
with your nylon string or whatever is used to tie the kite down.
PS on't forget to film the event!
[Edited on 31-7-2007 by hinz]YT2095 - 31-7-2007 at 05:27
IF you use a rocket, remember what I said, it MUST be electrically isolated! so either a blow tube to a pressure switch or some other remote control,
you cannot simply light a fuse OR use an Ematch to your hand held trigger!hashashan - 31-7-2007 at 05:39
you dont need to accelerate anything .. you just need to lay the wire in a smart way ... you need to fold it in circles on the ground so it will be
just pulled upwards.. of course you shouldnt use a rolled wirefranklyn - 1-8-2007 at 04:19
Quote:
Originally posted by solo
I had a strange dream
Not to worry stranger ideas have been proposed by others
@Solo - are you still alive down there in Mexico? Here where I live (you can work that out) is one of the most most lighning prone areas in the
western hemispere, if not world wide. The idea of hoisting a wire into the sky causes me to fear for your safety, amigo!
I have twice had lightning strikes on trees within 10 meters of my house(s). In the first the wall paper in the kitchen happened to be aluminim backed
(Why I have no idea). A very large spark crossed this room but did no damage, fortunately.
The same year the neighbor was also struck, resulting in damage to various electrical systems in his house.
At my present abode a strike hit a large tree less than 10 meters from the house. Attached to it was a steel cored clothes line - this was vaporized.
An underground coax cable was also fused. In the house certain appliances such as a fan and and a bell transformer were ruined.
A friend who lives nearby is a radio amateur and has a 15 meter steel lattice tower to support his antennas. He says this is struck 2-3 times yearly.
Recently a neighbor 150 meters away had their house rendered uninhabitable by a lighnting induce fire - this is common in this area, perhaps 100 in
the county per annum. Regular news in the summer. This particular neighbor had small lightning conductors attached to their roof. I suspect the down
leads vaporized due to inadequate gauge wire.
Oh, and we have sharks, too, nearby in the ocean... Take care, amigo!
Regards,
Der Alte.IrC - 6-8-2007 at 16:33
If you read up on diamond making patents they are always adding microwaves to the mix. I think you should drill a hole in your microwave for the
leader to the rocket to connect the reaction vessel inside the oven to the lightning. Of course the vessel is glass or quartz and the leader out the
top of the oven is insulated. Also helps if the vessel can take great pressure. Then just before you fire your rocket turn on the microwave!
This all may sound idiotic but you guys really need to look at all the diamond making patents starting in the early 1960's. Not much different.
Moderate pressure in containment vessels with microwaves and bolts of electricity shooting into the mix of carbon inside the vessel.vulture - 7-8-2007 at 04:21
How about firing an EBW circuit into a charcoal filled enclosure then?The_Davster - 8-8-2007 at 15:39
Or perhaps firing an EBW circuit through a thin graphite rod? Think pencil lead for mechanical pencils.
Perhaps with the lead encased in thick glass for some pressure?Xenoid - 30-9-2007 at 16:08
May be this is the way to do it, Bob only needs a bit more power...
I seriously question why anyone would want to make synthetic diamonds. The world is awash with cheap synthetic gem quality diamonds of any colour
imaginable. Added to this is a "glut" of natural stones, the price of which is only maintained artificially by DeBeers. Diamonds are not the "rare"
gemstones people think they are, natural sapphire, ruby and emerald are all rarer. But again are all easily coloured and made synthetically.
)
