Sciencemadness Discussion Board - How do I make Chloroform

How do I make Chloroform

penetration - 27-7-2003 at 14:40

Please give me information on how to make homemade (trichloromethane) chloroform.
[Edited on 27-7-2003 by penetration]

[Edited on 28-7-2003 by penetration]

Haggis - 27-7-2003 at 15:43

Anything that is introduced into a body to knock someone out is highly dangerous and is not reccommended in any aspect. Results are not constant and accidents do happen. This 'subject' could have permanent damage or any other manner of difficulties. I strictly suggest against anybody using this on a person. I also suggest you seek out the "NBK2000 PDF". It has 2 different methods to chloroform as long as 2 other knock out compounds.

[Edited on 28-7-2003 by Haggis]

penetration - 27-7-2003 at 16:00

I am not familiar with trichloromethane, I simply want to know if there is a less dangerous form of chloroform. It is used on patients in a hospital, and it is used responsibly. I would like to know how to use it so that i do not do anything dangerous or deadly.

DDTea - 27-7-2003 at 17:26

You may be mistaken, penetration. I don't think that it is Chloroform they used, but Diethyl Ether...

However, Chloroform could be prepared by the reaction between Sodium or Calcium Hypochlorite and Acetone. If I recall correctly, the yields aren't so nice, but it works.

Haggis - 27-7-2003 at 18:52

The reaction goes like this: 2 gallons 10% hypochlorite solution and some 340 grams of acetone. You'll need around 5 pounds of ice for cooling. The chloroform is on the bottom. 200 ml yield.
Thanks to NBK.

Intentionally left vague.

BromicAcid - 27-7-2003 at 20:45

Specifically it's called a haloform reacion, it occurs in the presence of a halogen, under basic conditions, and with a ketone, and it is a good way to oxidize a ketone which is usually resistant to oxidation because it would break a carbon-carbon bond. The hypochlorite provides both the free halogen and the basic conditions so it simplifies things. Or you could fill a baloon with methane and chlorine gas and expose to sunlight with heating but that doesn't seem too safe.

penetration - 27-7-2003 at 21:04

How could Diethyl Ether be used to knock a person out temporarely without causing death. I thought Diethyl Ether was used in engine starter spray.

trinitrotoluene - 27-7-2003 at 22:00

trichlormethane is chlorform.... its just a different name...

Diethyl Ether is found in paint thinners.... gosh.....

Polverone - 27-7-2003 at 22:27

Diethyl ether is used in paint thinners? Must be some interesting paint thinners. I've never seen a can of "paint thinner" that was anything but petroleum distillates.

Diethyl ether and chloroform have both been used for anaesthesia. Chloroform can cause liver damage but ether is highly flammable; pick your poison. One of my pharmacology books is of the opinion that chloroform was definitely inferior, but gained popularity after being used on Queen Victoria to ease the pains of childbirth.

http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/chloroform.html

trinitrotoluene - 28-7-2003 at 11:21

I had found them in paint thinners before. I'm not exactly which brand. That time I was bored so I decided to read the labels of each solvent. I came across one that that said diethyl ether in one of its ingredents. Seeing how its worthless, I didin't bother trying to remember. At that time I was trying to search for toluene.

a_bab - 29-7-2003 at 00:15

Quote:
(chloroform) It is used on patients in a hospital
end of quote

Well, it WAS used before. Now, due to it's toxicity, and more important, to carcinogenic properties (it was established that a simple "knock off" by the means of chloroforme it's enough for developing a liver cancer after years) it is no longer used.

[Edited on 29-7-2003 by a_bab]

I am a fish - 29-7-2003 at 00:21

Chloroform is no longer used as an anesthetic due do its toxicity.

Diethyl ether is still used as an anestheic in the third world, as the dose required to cause unconsciousness is much lower than a fatal dose.

[Edited on 30-7-2003 by I am a fish]

penetration - 29-7-2003 at 14:46

Thanks everyone for your information.

Knockout drugs

KaptainKrap - 24-9-2003 at 06:08

I have experimented with the production of hypnotic drugs and one I can recommend is a cyclic ether prepared by the acid catalysed trimerisation of ethanal. To obtain ethanal, you first need to ferment some ethanol or use some lab-quality stuff Impurities don't matter, they boil off. To obtain the ethanal, add K2Cr2O7 solution to a flask which is kept t about 40 degrees with a tube coming off leading to a cool water bath. Ethanal boils at 20*C so will boil off on formation. Take the ethanal, and add a few drops of H2SO4 or the like. It will then trimerise into a hypnotis drug which has similar effects to excessive alcohol intake. Wonderful.

Blind Angel - 24-9-2003 at 07:11

Isn't chloroform a good solvent, i would use it for this property personnaly...

Haggis - 24-9-2003 at 08:11

Yes, many things are very soluble in chloroform, but I cannot think of an example now, as I am away from my computer currently. It has also been used as a preservative for samples and specimens.

DDTea - 24-9-2003 at 11:38

Very interesting, Kaptain... So interesting, I might just try this! But some quick questions first:

I assume the goal of the Potassium Dichromate is just to oxidize the Ethanol to Ethanal... But, is there any reason why you prefer Dichromate? It is a mildly exotic chemical which many of us do not have access to... But surely other strong oxidizers, such as KMnO4 should work just as well, no?

And could you give us the chemical reaction for this Hypnotic Drug- because it would help us a lot to be able to calculate ratios and such

. Furthermore, can this drug be inhaled? Or does it have to be taken by ingestion or some other means to be effective?

Mumbles - 24-9-2003 at 13:35

Said drug is Paraldehyde. I believe it is taken orally most often, in the form of a solution. It can also be injected, and can be made into a rectal liquid suitable for enema(mmmmmm, fun).

Dosage for sedation is 0.15 cc/kg/dose PO(orally) or PR(rectally), maximum dose 5 cc. If you're up for an anal enema you have to dilute the solution with an equal amout of cooking or olive oil. If going IM(in the muscle) its a 5% solution in 0.9% saline solution. This must be given over a 2 hour period(50 mL). I've also seen 0.2 to 0.4 g/kg every 24 hours. I am not sure what method this applies too however. That doseage on the higher end may be the dose to knock someone out of seizure state. It takes approximatly 15 minutes for the effects to set in.

Using KMnO4 seems fine, I am quite sure it creates Acetaldehyde. I personally have 500g Sodium Dichromate though. Its pure enough to make acetaldehyde. I noticed its fairly easy to oxidise to far to Acetic Acid. Distillation separates the two however.

Kaptain, do you distill the acetaldehyde out of the water before you do the polymerization? I think you'd almost have to. If kept in the water the sulfuric would become very dilute and not be strong enough to polymerize the acetaldehyde.

The reaction should go something like this:

3 CH3CHO --H2SO4--> C6H12O3

More information about Paraldehyde

Warning

BCF - 8-10-2003 at 10:12

A warning to anyone trying the hypochlorite / acetone synthesis: acetone and chloroform are known to form a shock- and- heat sensitive explosive mixture, especially if the acetone is not > 90% pure. So take care to avoid the presence of unreacted acetone in the product mix - don't use it in excess.

detritus - 27-4-2008 at 19:07

I don't think that BCF's warning is warranted. Acetone and hypochlorite makes chloroform readily and safely - the only risk is adding it too fast. It will heat up and begin emitting the low-boiling chloroform into the air. If you're doing it in an enclosed space, you could be knocked out. I've never seen it boil off, but it's probably possible if it gets REALLY hot.

Acetone and chloroform (plus a strong base, like KOH) form to make chlorobutanol, another sedative/hypnotic kind of like chloral hydrate with a distict, kind of mothbally smell. I don't see any path in any of these RXN's for an explosive byproduct. Maybe he means acetone peroxide, but no peroxides used here.

Anyway, be careful as always. Never tried Paraldehyde but chloral and chlorbutanol act basically "as-advertised".

Sauron - 27-4-2008 at 20:46

Anesthesia is not an Amateur Science!

Anytime a patient is anesththetized, their life is imperiled. They say (in the medical profession) there are 100 steps between consciousness and death. General anesthesia is the final three steps down that ladder, and the job of the anesthesiologist is to know how to reliably bring the patient back safe and sound, up the ladder.

It is one of the most demanding specialties in medicine.

If you perform anesthesia on a human without a license to practice, you are a criminal.

Chloroform is a carcinogen.

Diethyl ether is highly volatile and flammable.

"Knockout drops" (chloral hydrate) are toxic.

Rohypnol is a tool for rapists.

I don't know who this poster is, but giving him information on making anything of this sort is highloy irresponsible, if we tate his stated intention at face value, and why shouldn't we?

What's nest - home brain surgery?

MagicJigPipe - 27-4-2008 at 21:45

Rohypnol (flunitrazepam) was/is also a very good anxiolytic drug just like most other benzodiazepines. It really isn't much "stronger", it just happened to gain popularity as a "date rape drug" and then it was placed into schedule 1 in the US.

My point is it is not only a tool used to commit rape.

Believe it or not I have actually had people (after they found out I was into chemistry) request that I make them "something" to "put in a girl's drink" so they can "have some fun".

Disgusting... Those people deserve whatever they get.

not_important - 27-4-2008 at 22:00

Quote:

Women who claim to be victims of 'date-rape' drugs such as Rohypnol have in fact been rendered helpless by binge-drinking, says a study by doctors.

They found no evidence that any woman seeking help from emergency doctors because their drinks were allegedly spiked had actually been given these drugs.
...
The 12-month study was based on 75 patients - mostly women - treated in casualty who told doctors their drinks had been tampered with in pubs or clubs.

But tests for drugs such as Rohypnol, GHB and ketamine found nothing, says the study published in the Emergency Medicine Journal.

It showed 65 per cent of women had 160mg of alcohol in their blood - twice the 80mg drink/drive limit - and a quarter were three times over the limit. Although all the patients denied taking drugs such as cocaine and amphetamine, one fifth tested positive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.htm...

As Ogden Nash wrote
Candy is dandy
Liquor is quicker

Ethanol and nicotine continue to be the drugs of abuse, and are used in vastly larger amounts that other drugs. Alcohol is responsible for 3 to 4 deaths yearly per ten thousand population. Nicotine is worse, Freud was able to kick cocaine fairly quickly but was never able to stop using tobacco, even after repeated surgery for cancer had removed most of his jaw.

detritus - 27-4-2008 at 22:59

Oh, the USES of chloroform? You should use it as a solvent only. Any other use such as putting a bit on a cloth and breathing from it will quickly show you:

1) Its a crappy incapacitator. You will be kicking for some MINUTES before you would possibly be incapacitated. Too much movie myths make people think one drop will knock out an elephant. Not even close.

2) It's a disgusting feeling and a wicked hangover. In no way pleasant, the sweet greasy vapors will stick around both in your mind and lungs.

3) It' ain't safe: A good number of people can't tolerate it and will die if these people attempt to incapacitate themselves using chloroform. They won't know until it's too late.

So if you need it for a solvent, go ahead and use it for that. But if you think it's some sort of magic James Bond knockout gas, you're dead wrong.

As far as the side discussion on diazepams: They are really quite different. Clonazepam will wipe your memory completely out for a good 15+hr plane ride, where di, tem, and a few of the others just make you relaxed. Not sure about flun- but I imagine it is similar to clon, or at least I don't doubt it's amnesic effects. Ever have someone come up to you in the terminal and ask if you got to call your buddy or not? And you didn't remember you had a 3-hr conversation with them on the plane about whether you'd need to buy a new SIM card to just make a quick call as you waited for a transfer? Creepy. Now I stay away from that crap.

Sauron - 28-4-2008 at 01:13

That was Dorothy Sayers and not Ogden Nash.

Rohypnol is Schedule 4 not Schedule 1, GHB is Schedule 1 but for no good reason other than Hilary's feminazi friends.

But as far as I know Rohypnol was never FDA approved in US and has always been smuggled in from Mexico.

The salient feature of Rohypnol versus the other diazapams is the memory loss.

I agree that beer is probably the "best" date rape drug, bar none, more girls have probably lost it to Coors or Rolling Rock or Dixie (fill in your regional brewski) than to roofies. But, this is not invariably true.

MagicJigPipe - 28-4-2008 at 01:39

Okay, my mistake. It is schedule 1 in several states and not federally.

Quote:

As far as the side discussion on diazepams: They are really quite different. Clonazepam will wipe your memory completely out for a good 15+hr plane ride, where di, tem, and a few of the others just make you relaxed. Not sure about flun- but I imagine it is similar to clon, or at least I don't doubt it's amnesic effects. Ever have someone come up to you in the terminal and ask if you got to call your buddy or not? And you didn't remember you had a 3-hr conversation with them on the plane about whether you'd need to buy a new SIM card to just make a quick call as you waited for a transfer? Creepy. Now I stay away from that crap.

I disagree. I have been through the four most common benzodiazepines (alprazolam, clonazepam, diazepam and lorazepam) and the only difference I have noticed is how much drowsiness is induced. The memory impairment is virtually the same (for me) and is only present when an above average dose is taken.

Quote:

I've been thinking the same thing for years. I had a feeling this is how it played out just from intuition based on years of being around people who like to "go out" and have a so called "good time". I know it sounds bad (and I am not biased because a good friend of mine was a victim of rape) but, IMO, a lot of the time when a woman gets drunk, has sex and regrets it (or gets pissed at the guy later on) they have a tendency to try and prove that it wasn't their fault or get revenge. IMO, if you don't wish to have lowered inhibitions then DON'T DRINK. I really don't have A LOT of simpathy for women who have sex with someone they don't like because of excessive drinking. Many times, the guy is just as drunk and surely means no harm.

My point is that sometimes it seems that this follows the rest of the country in trying to blame someone else for your own actions. Is it really rape most of the time? Probably. Are there many cases where a woman is just trying to place blame or be vengeful? I think so.

Another reason: I'm sure there have been men that went to jail because they had sex with a married woman (in a relationship) and the woman's significant other found out and she then claimed to have been raped. Yes, infedelity is wrong but it certainly should not be punished by law.

And before you guys start saying I'm sexist and I like to womanize, beat and rape women. Just know that I do think that the majority of these cases are legit. However, I also think that a large number are not.

Anyway, what was this thread about? Ha! Sorry for the OTness.

brew - 29-4-2008 at 17:08

re "I would like to know how to use it so that i do not do anything dangerous or deadly."

Doing a thorough MSDS search on chemicals of interest is a good habit to get into. I did a lab tech course
some years ago and we could not touch a chemical unless we had learnt about its known handling/
compatability/storage issues. It was drummed into us and I am glad of this and need to remind myself
the importance of doing this still. Chemistry is fun but one surely doesn't want to learn from mistakes.

Sauron - 30-4-2008 at 06:49

Many MSDS are uninformation and disinformation and anti-information. They seem to be written by gerbils.

brew - 30-4-2008 at 16:49

Agreed but its a place to at least start. I dare say sodium chloride is classified at toxic and hazardous- though i have not looked but do remember seeing various chemicals that I thought to be deemed safe as being presented with excess warning etc.
I suppose one has to use common sence and have at least a bit of a check with unknowns