Sciencemadness Discussion Board - sciencelab .com

sciencelab .com

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jim30082 - 7-4-2007 at 07:30

You might want to be careful doing business with sciencelab.com. I have been trying to get some products sent or a refund for over 1 year. Now you only get answering machines and calls and e-mails are not returned.

Magpie - 7-4-2007 at 11:17

I had given some thought to ordering from them. Why do you think they are giving you a hard time? Are they unfriendly toward individual buyers? Have you bought from them before?

Sauron - 7-4-2007 at 11:23

Don't be dense. They took his money, did not deliver, have dodged him for >1 year, have made no refund despite demands and now just use an answering machine. It's a SCAM. They are RIPOFFS.

Anyone with half a brain would have concluded that just from their insane high pricing.

At the very least they are guilty of federal mail fraud.

PainKilla - 7-4-2007 at 11:45

They were OK. I ordered from them twice, and once everything was fine, they delivered and the chemicals were of satisfactory grade.

The second time, they grabbed the money, and refuse to answer emails, phone calls, legal threats etc.

Just stay away from them.

[Edited on 7-4-2007 by PainKilla]

Sauron - 7-4-2007 at 12:20

I daresay, had they screwed you the first time, you would never have sent them more money...

Operations like sciencelab.com prey on amateur chemists, and illicit chemists, they seem to take the attitude that all of their customers are drug cooks and that therefore it is OK to rip them off.

When I encounter an overpriced Internet only flybynight vendor like that I always suspect that they are some sort of intel gathering sting op, but that's just because I know how the govts like to work.

pantone159 - 7-4-2007 at 18:09

What on earth suggests that they are going after 'drug cooks'?
I looked at their supposed inventory, and it didn't look 'drug cook' at all to me. In contrast, KNO3.com, recently discussed on this forum, had RP and I2 prominently on the front page.

I had come across their webpage some time ago, so I don't know that fly-by-night applies... I never tried to order from them, however. Very possibly because of high prices.

Sauron - 7-4-2007 at 22:14

I have not examined their inventory, merely run across them as Google entries when searching for some materials, I do not search for drug precursors, so really cannot say but I would be surprised if they did not claim to sell RP, I2 etc. Perhaps not as prominentlky promoted as that now busted Brit operation.

What I said was admittedly surmise only, but who else would be the prospective clientele of an Internet based repack shop offering small packs of organic chemicals at exorbidant prices?

Commercial and institutional labs buy from the usual suspects:

Aldrich, Merck, Acros, Fisher, Fluka, Sigma, Eastman, Alfa/Aesar.

Their prices are high enough but sciencelab.com's prices always appeared to me to be MUCH higher.

So who would ever buy from them except customers that Aldrich etc won't touch with a ten foot pole?

Aldrich vets every new account with DEA. Every one foreign or domestic.

I buy from them, from Merck, from Acros, Ajax, Fluka, Panreac and Carlo Erba via their agents in South East Asia where I am located, but I have a licensed registered corporation to do so.

So, you tell me who the potential clientele for sciencelab.com, per their own business plan if they had one, might have been?

I can only think of two groups desperate enough to think about paying those prices.

joeflsts - 8-4-2007 at 07:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Sauron
I have not examined their inventory, merely run across them as Google entries when searching for some materials, I do not search for drug precursors, so really cannot say but I would be surprised if they did not claim to sell RP, I2 etc. Perhaps not as prominentlky promoted as that now busted Brit operation.

What I said was admittedly surmise only, but who else would be the prospective clientele of an Internet based repack shop offering small packs of organic chemicals at exorbidant prices?

Commercial and institutional labs buy from the usual suspects:

Aldrich, Merck, Acros, Fisher, Fluka, Sigma, Eastman, Alfa/Aesar.

Their prices are high enough but sciencelab.com's prices always appeared to me to be MUCH higher.

So who would ever buy from them except customers that Aldrich etc won't touch with a ten foot pole?

Aldrich vets every new account with DEA. Every one foreign or domestic.

I buy from them, from Merck, from Acros, Ajax, Fluka, Panreac and Carlo Erba via their agents in South East Asia where I am located, but I have a licensed registered corporation to do so.

So, you tell me who the potential clientele for sciencelab.com, per their own business plan if they had one, might have been?

I can only think of two groups desperate enough to think about paying those prices.

I don't think that Sciencelab's only customer is the clandestine drug cook. They know they are selling chemicals in the secondary market (hobbyists, etc.) and they charge accordingly. Many on this forum don't have your acquistion credentials and classifying them as drug makers isn't accurate. Unless you just want piss everyone off.

I have never used them

- I find them to be very expensive.
Joe

[Edited on 8-4-2007 by joeflsts]

[Edited on 8-4-2007 by joeflsts]

Sauron - 8-4-2007 at 07:49

@joe, damn it, you are mischaracterizing what I said I did not say that anyone who bought from scienlab.com was a drug cook. I said that I guessed that amateur chemists AND drug cooks (two completely seperate groups as far as I am concerned) were probably the intended clientele of sciencelab simply because these two groups were the only ones desperate enough to pay such ridiculous prices.

Now, if in fact sciencelab did not sell any drug precursors (whatever that means, list 1, list 2) that still leaves a lot of room for them to sell chemicals that drug cooks might have need of, because those DEA lists are hardly comprehensive.

But I did not exclude the case of perfectly legitimate amateurs trying to buy from these people simply because they have so few other options these days.

Apparently, if anyone did pay these people, there is a good chance they were ripped off.

That's according to members who HAVE been ripped off, and posted here about it.

Kindly do not misrepresent what I posted. Read it again, it has not been edited and speaks for itself. Any fair reading will reveal I insulted no one of us, and it was certainly not my intention to do so, in any case.

Magpie - 8-4-2007 at 08:56

Here's the first items under "A" in sciencelab.com's list of chemicals:

(+)-6-Aminopenicillanic Acid
» (R)-(+)-1-Amino-2-(methoxymethyl)pyrrolidine
» (R)-(-)-1-Amino-2-propanol
» (R,S)-alpha-Amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic Acid
» (R,S)-alpha-Amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic Acid Hydrobromide
» (S)-(+)-2-Amino-1-propanol
» (S)-(+)-2-Amino-2-phenylethanol
» (S)-(–)-2-Amino-3-phenyl-1-propanol
» (Z)-1-[2-(2-Aminoethyl)-N-(2-ammonioethyl)amino]diazen-1-ium-1,2-diolate
» (Z)-1-[N-(3-Ammoniopropyl)-N-(n-propyl)amino] Diazen-1-ium-1,2-diolate
» (Z)-2-Amino-alpha-(methoxyamino)thiazole-4-acetic Acid
» (±)-2-Aminoheptane
» (±)-Abscisic Acid
» 1,2-bis-(o-Aminophenoxy)ethane-N,N,N',N'-tetraacetic Acid Tetra(acetoxymethyl) Ester
» 1,3-bis(3-Aminopropyl)-1,1,3,3-tetramethyldisoxane
» 1,6-Anhydro-b-D-glucose
» 1,6-Anhydro-b-D-mannopyranose
» 1-(2-Aminoethyl)piperazine
» 1-Acetyl-2-phenylhydrazine
» 1-Acetyl-4-(4-hydroxyphenyl)piperazine
» 1-Acetyl-4-piperidinecarboxylic Acid
» 1-Acetyl-5-bromoindoline
» 1-Acetylimidazole
» 1-Adamantanamine Sulfate
» 1-Adamantanecarboxylic Acid
» 1-Adamantaneethanol
» 1-Adamantanol
» 1-Allyl-2-thiourea
» 1-Aminobenzotriazole
» 1-Aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylic Acid
» 1-Aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylic Acid Methyl Ester Hydrochloride
» 1-Aminoguanidinium Hydrogen Carbonate
» 1-Aminoindan
» 1-Aminopyrene
» 1-O-Acetyl-2,3,5-tri-O-benzoyl-beta-D-ribofuranose
» 12-Aminododecanoic Acid
» 2'-Acetonaphthone
» 2,2'-Anhydro-(1-b-D-arabinofuranosyl)cytosine Hydrochloride
» 2,2'-Azinobis(3-ethylbenzthiazoline-6-sulfonic Acid) Diammonium Salt
» 2,2'-Azobis(2-methylpropionitrile)
» 2,5-Anhydro-D-mannitol
» 2-(Aminomethyl)pyridine
» 2-Acetamidofluorene
» 2-Acetyl-5-methylfuran
» 2-Acetylbenzoic Acid
» 2-Acetylbutyrolactone
» 2-Acetylcyclopentanone

@Sauron: Maybe I am just dense but this hardly looks like the kind of chemicals either of those two groups you refer to would be ordering.

Sauron - 8-4-2007 at 09:42

@Magpie, hang on. First of all, we are working backwards from a known piece of data, which is that these folks are crooks who have clipped a couple of our members for money already.

Given that simple datum, I am really not prepared to assume that sciencelab actually had stock of what they listed. More likely they waited till someone ordered and paid for something before they procured it, sort of a JIT setup.

So maybe they just copied that "inventory" from some other company's stock list and ran it up the flagpole.

In the end, they for whatever reason simply took the money and ran. Cuts down on the overhead for sure, nt much for customer satisfaction though.

Bottom line: they are crooks, and we have all been warned. The rest including my own comments is idle speculation with all the value of rubbernecking at a traffic accident.

joeflsts - 8-4-2007 at 11:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Sauron
@joe, damn it, you are mischaracterizing what I said I did not say that anyone who bought from scienlab.com was a drug cook. I said that I guessed that amateur chemists AND drug cooks (two completely seperate groups as far as I am concerned) were probably the intended clientele of sciencelab simply because these two groups were the only ones desperate enough to pay such ridiculous prices.

Now, if in fact sciencelab did not sell any drug precursors (whatever that means, list 1, list 2) that still leaves a lot of room for them to sell chemicals that drug cooks might have need of, because those DEA lists are hardly comprehensive.

But I did not exclude the case of perfectly legitimate amateurs trying to buy from these people simply because they have so few other options these days.

Apparently, if anyone did pay these people, there is a good chance they were ripped off.

That's according to members who HAVE been ripped off, and posted here about it.

Kindly do not misrepresent what I posted. Read it again, it has not been edited and speaks for itself. Any fair reading will reveal I insulted no one of us, and it was certainly not my intention to do so, in any case.

Thanks, I did misread your post.

Joe

jim30082 - 8-4-2007 at 14:26

They were OK on my first order. They are kind of expensive
but I just needed a number of surfactants for a project I have going. I filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and anyone else should also. Hate to do it with so few suppliers left but I doubt they will do anything anyway.

seb - 8-4-2007 at 16:09

I can't go for this. Let us be scientific. The darn human body tends to get addicted to everything from coffee and cigarettes on up. How do you know you aren't dealing with a passionate adherent of meth who has found the only way to stay slim? How do you know you are not dealing with someone completely psychotic at this very moment? In fact, I am reminded of a Doors song: "There's a killer on the road. His brain is squirmin' like a toad". I don't want a) drunks out there, b) anyone on any kind of high on the road, c) anyone not well-rested out there, d) anyone having an accident for any reason, because I will blame them. Now, who is really cooking? I USED to cook. Riddle me this: How are you possibly going to get away with it?

evil_lurker - 8-4-2007 at 16:46

The entire deal with ScienceLab is about convienience. Not everyone has the means, ability, or want to set up an account with one of the big boys Sauron mentioned. IMO their business is focused on that market segment.

And it does appear that ScienceLab is a repack operation. Two weeks ago I placed an order with them and they promptly sent notice that the item was on back order with estimated delivery in 3-4 weeks.

So far I have not heard back from them.

I'm going to wait another week, and send them an e-mail(s). If they do not responde or ship my order within 1 more week I will file a dispute with my credit card company and have them do a charge-back.

PainKilla - 8-4-2007 at 17:01

Be sure not to wait; this is what they did to me.

Eventually, it was too late to do a chargeback, right as they said they were going to ship. Still haven't received anything, not even an email from them.

Definitely don't delay when dealing with these unscrupulous people.

S.C. Wack - 8-4-2007 at 17:26

http://www.bbb.org/

30 complaints in 37 months. Interesting that Strike's SA is within 5 miles of both sciencelab addresses.

conducter - 8-4-2007 at 20:59

Quote:

Originally posted by S.C. Wack
http://www.bbb.org/

30 complaints in 37 months. Interesting that Strike's SA is within 5 miles of both sciencelab addresses.

wow interesting...

they do not seem to sell illegal things but on the border...

like they do not sell phenylacetic acid which is a p2p precursor but they do sell Phenylacetyl Chloride which reacted with water gives PAA in 100% yield.

[Edited on 9-4-2007 by conducter]

Sauron - 8-4-2007 at 21:44

You are missing the point, they STEAL YOUR MONEY AND DELIVER NOTHING so what they pretend to sell does not matter does it?

Suppose (arguendo) that they listed I2 and/or red P.

You place an order, they deliver nothing, they have not pissed off the DEA have they?

They would have committed mail fraud but they can get away with that for a long time as it is very hard to motivate the postal inspectors to take action.

FTC does nothing.

The cops might be highly amused to see someone ripping off people ordering those items.

Whereas if they actually delivered them DEA would be on them in a flash just like those Brits.

LoKi - 20-4-2007 at 00:18

I ordered from them a couple years ago. I believe the order consisted of some glassware, and one fairly common chemical, which though it was rather benign required me to fill out an intent of use form, which I doubt I ever filled out. They took the money for the entire order and sent only a few empty glass bottles. Not even any other glassware. I took a closer look at their website a while later and somewhere I found a policy stating something to the effect that if they for some reason cannot fill the order, the will still keep your money with no possibility of a refund. I assmune they still state that somewhere in the fine print to keep it legal, which means your pleas to the FTC or BBB may be in vain. But what do I know, I'm no lawyer. I hope you have better luck getting a refund than I have.

Sauron - 20-4-2007 at 00:27

Policy state,emt policy shtatement, what they did is criminal fraud. They can't hide behind terms and conditions while delivering empty bottles. And that does not even address the glassware never shipped at all.

Clearly sciencelab.com are cheap crooks, gonifs, of the worst sort. Avoid them like the plague, brethren.

evil_lurker - 20-4-2007 at 01:15

I suggest the formation of a website for stratetic public participation wherein you tell your story and others get to share their experiences.

Set it up with the proper meta-tags (meaning whenever sciencelab shows up in a separate search box in yahoo when you do a search for a chemical, add that as a meta tag) and submit it to all the search engines.

That would be how you hurt them... once you get enough complaints and the website grows and gets more traffic it will cost them $$$$$$ in lost sales.

Sauron - 20-4-2007 at 03:03

And then they just change their name (domain name) and go right on ripping people off.

Costs them virtually nothing. A $15 domain and a little html work.

alancj - 20-4-2007 at 21:16

Quote:

Originally posted by LoKi
I ordered from them a couple years ago. I believe the order consisted of some glassware, and one fairly common chemical, which though it was rather benign required me to fill out an intent of use form, which I doubt I ever filled out. They took the money for the entire order and sent only a few empty glass bottles. Not even any other glassware. I took a closer look at their website a while later and somewhere I found a policy stating something to the effect that if they for some reason cannot fill the order, the will still keep your money with no possibility of a refund. I assmune they still state that somewhere in the fine print to keep it legal, which means your pleas to the FTC or BBB may be in vain. But what do I know, I'm no lawyer. I hope you have better luck getting a refund than I have.

I was thinking about ordering from them, but I decided to look at their police’s first to see if I had to be a school or business to order... I'm glade I did because my jaw dropped when I read this:

Quote:

Sciencelab.com
If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.

Go to their site to read the rest of the "REGULATORY COMPLIANCE" section on their policies page.

I think I'll stick to eBay.
-Alan

chromium - 21-4-2007 at 02:47

Quote:

Originally posted by alancj

Quote:

Go to their site to read the rest of the "REGULATORY COMPLIANCE" section on their policies page.

I think I'll stick to eBay.
-Alan

I doubt if it is legal to make such conditions. They should at least inform customers what exactly was the reason of canceling orders. Otherwise there is no way for customers to know if there was any other reason than just wish to stole their money. Not answering emails systematically is also bad stile if not against the law.

It seems that this kind of rather uncommon order canceling policy is how they actually make their money.

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by chromium]

[Edited on 21-4-2007 by chromium]

Sauron - 21-4-2007 at 06:55

There is no basis for their "policy" under the Uniform Commercial Code (US Business law) or any other US law.

Maybe they think they can confuse a victim but they can't confuse a prosecutor, or any lawyer.

They are civilly and criminally liable. The difficulty will lie is the likely small claim vs the cost of civil litigation and vs the motivation of any prosecutor to pursue criminally. In other words, if you lost a lot and have a deep pocket and/or the right political connections you might get (or buy) assistance.

If your loss is smallish everyone will tell you to just write it off.

not_important - 21-4-2007 at 08:09

I've been told that in the US it is not that uncommon for shady businesses to maintain a number of bank accounts. most of which only contain a tiny amount of money; money is constantly being moved between accounts on to ones belonging to some other company. If you win a court cases against them, it turns out that their listed bank account only has $23 in it.

If you manage to trace out Sciencelab's flow, it would not surprise me if they buy everything they list from some "other" repacking company that charges them high prices, and whose invoices Sciencelab always pay very promptly, so that cash does not sit in Sciencelab's bank account(s). Both companies, in the end, are owned or controlled by the same people, perhaps with several layers of parent corporations.

One might consider registering and hosting a web site outside the US, named "sciencelabisaripoff" or something similar. It would display details of the problems with that company, replicate their product lists, and use the same meta tags they do.

Just saying...

tupence_hapeny - 27-5-2007 at 19:28

This is so fucking funny it is ludicrous, these fucks think that they can avoid liability with a disclaimer so poorly fucking worded? A quick lesson in the legalities involved in cybersales (This is written in response to this page (http://www.sciencelab.com/data/legal.htm):

Quote:

Jurisdiction & Venue
You agree that any legal action brought against SCIENCELAB.COM Inc. shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas without regard to its conflict of law principles. You agree that the sole jurisdiction and venue for any litigation arising from your use of or orders made on the sciencelab.com sites shall be an appropriate federal or state court located in Harris County Texas.

I can agree to whatever the fuck I please whenever and wherever the consequences of that agreement are non-enforceable and void for uncertainty (or in this case, stupidity). Such as, in this instance, the 'quasi-legalistic' concession as to jurisdiction, wherever you place an order from (and they agree to deliver it to) determines the jurisdiction in which the claim will be heard. No Court will allow it's jurisdiction to be waived, nor will legislatures, virtually every jurisdiction I have encountered precludes the effect of such disclaimers (as to jurisdiction) in their entirety and as such this is a waste of valuable space.

Quote:

Order Acceptance Policy
Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation of our offer to sell. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order, without prior notice to you, to supply less than the quantity you ordered of any item. All orders placed over $2000.00 (U.S.) must obtain pre-approval with an acceptable method of payment, as established by our credit and fraud avoidance department. We may require additional verifications or information before accepting any orders.

NNoooo, what is on the website is an invitation to treat, the proposed purchaser then makes an offer - which is either declined or accepted. Acceptance or denial is held to be determined at the point at which money changes hands or where the necessary paperwork and credit details is provided and accepted in exchange for the promise to supply goods. This is called 'consideration' and it is provided on the basis of a 'promise', constituting both offer (by you) and acceptance (by them). If they require additional information they must do so prior to acceptance, simply because if the legality of the sale is dependent upon a condition precedent, it must be established prior to the exchange of consideration for promise - this is called 'COMMERCE' However, they did get something right, the written memorandum confirming the order/transaction, does not of itself, constitute either offer or acceptance - it does however provide a binding record of the same.

Consequently they may indeed at some time, post-settlement, ship less than the desired quantity, etc. however they remain liable to provide the balance of the contract, failure to do so on their part constitutes false and/or misleading conduct (fraud if not pure theft).

NB Also be aware, conditions incised upon a computer/machine generated receipt or ticket are non-enforceable (thus void) unless clear reference had been made to those conditions/rules prior to your entering into the contract (unless on the basis of prior dealings it could be inferred that you were aware of the same).

Quote:

REGULATORY COMPLIANCE
Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify the customer by email should any additional information(s) be required to fulfill your order. Sciencelab.com, Inc. is not responsible for any non-compliance on the customers behalf. If any item requires information(s) from regulatory departments within Sciencelab.com, Inc. or on behalf of federal and local governments. The customer will be required to provide these institutions with any and all information requested, failure to do so will result in the customer being out both product and the product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.

If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.

Sciencelab.com, Inc. does not assume the responsibility of knowing or informing the customer of these regulations at the time of purchase. Sciencelab.com, Inc. will take good faith measures to make sure the customer is notified of any regulatory departments compliance or non-compliance issues at the time of our notification by such departments or if we do have prior knowledge of such regulations at the time of order placement.

Once again, BULLSHIT

The company suggests by the above that not only does a customer lose their item, which would presumably be confiscated by the government (although it wouldn't - it wouldn't leave the store), but that they would be paid for that item (despite having entered into an agreement to break the law) but would also be paid a bonus for having done so?

Nope.

Of you have the misfortune to be in this situation (through no fault of your own), the contract is void for illegality - neither party gets to keep what they get under the agreement and both parties are returned to their respective positions prior to entering into the agreement. THEY MUST RETURN THE MONEY, if they don't - sue their black hearted motherfucking arses off, just because you 'almost' inadvertently 'bent' the law doesn't remove you from the protection of the same.* The only party that can penalize you for breaking the law at any rate is the government - neither private individuals nor companies have any right or authority to do so...

* Minor caveat, if you are in fact seeking to manufacture illegal drugs, please, do not take chemical suppliers to Court - chances are, if you do, that you will have many years in which to work out why this is so...

Also please be aware that if you are out of pocket simply by virtue of not having been aware of the regulatory requirements attendant upon your proposed purchase - which ignorance arose at least partially because of the putative chemical suppliers 'failure' to inform you of the same - prior to settlement (as they are inevitably required to do by law & as a condition of their remaining licensed) there is at least a serious argument that your loss arose from their negligence/incompetence. It would therefore be unethical to allow them to profit from improper or even illegal business practices and I'd be surprised if ANY Court allowed them to do so...

I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because they have lawyers who say one thing doesn't make it so, every single Court case is two (or often many more) lawyer's saying that the other one is a dickhead with a judge to determine where both the truth and the law lies. Business law is based upon fairness and equity, it is there to stop people being fucked over (for the most part) and to encourage investment by demonstrating that investor's can trust the Courts to deliver a fair and equitable outcome. Just because something is in legalese don't mean its legal.

tup

Sauron - 27-5-2007 at 20:14

You are quite correct - it IS illegal, it is criminal and civil fraud, mail fraud, and a violation of umpteen federal laws on top of those.

I would say they are counting on their customers being disinclined to lodge official complaints because they apparently assume that their only clientele (for which read:victims) are those who can't buy their chemicals through normal chemical supply channels. In other words, they regard all of you as fair game for theft.

I have said before that these guys are at best a repack shop, They do not manufacture anything, and they do not do custom synthesis. If they actually deal in chemicals at all, they buy in a larger qty, repack to smaller qty, mark up outrageously, and pocket the difference.

Clearly from the absurd and obviously dysfunctional notice above, they have discovered a way to transmute your money into their money.

Someone REALLY needs to put these people behind bars.

conducter - 28-5-2007 at 06:19

sauron, does that mean that they simply wont fill an order? because they have a few items ive had my eye on, but am not sure if ANYONE has had success with them

Sauron - 28-5-2007 at 07:21

In a previous thread some member reported that they filled an oprder or two and then screwed him over on another order, no shipment, no refund.

There's no safe way to do business with such a company. If they take credit cards you MIGHT have recourse (by chargeback) but it will be at discretion of the card center. My bet is that for this reason, sciencelab won't take plastic. Do they?

MagicJigPipe - 7-4-2008 at 20:31

Oh my god! After reading this I knew that it absolutely must be a scam.

Quote:

(R)-1-Amino-2-(methoxymethyl)pyrrolidine; RAMP

C6H14N2O F.W. 130.19 CAS: 72748-99-3

SKU Size Price
SLA1984-1G 1 g $294.59

Assay Approx. 97%

First off, no organic molecule should cost anywhere near that much. Second, even if this was 100% pure (I mean, every damn molecule in the container is the listed compound) it would still not even be worth a fraction of that price. And the assay is only 97%!

This is more than 5x the price of platinum by weight. This compound rivals the price of 100% pure fentanyl on "the street". Can anyone here think of a compound (other than black market fentanyl patches sold individually) that costs this much (legitimately) by weight? Anyone?

Let's look at another one. One of the simplest amino alcohols (and really one of the simplest organic molecules).

Quote:

(R)-(-)-1-Amino-2-propanol
(–)-Isopropanolamine

C3H9NO F.W. 75.11 CAS: 2799-16-8

SKU Size Price
SLA4837-1G † 1 g $99.70

† Limited Quantity
* Subject to Hazardous Material Fee

They have a limited quantity selling 1g at a time? This price doesn't even include shipping OR the hazardous materials fee! This is completely ludacris and laughable at best. This is an insult to the intelligence of the human race. Shame on these people!

If I didn't know any better I would think this site was a joke!

Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt and say, "that's just a typo-- they mean 1 gallon", that STILL is an outrageous price!

I am just completely and utterly appalled at the fact that people can actually pull this kind of low-ball shit!

I know this has already been discussed but I just wanted to make sure people saw those prices when they read this thread so they know without a doubt that this site is a scam.

[Edited on 7-4-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

Sauron - 7-4-2008 at 20:47

You are beating a dead horse. Yes they are a scam. Yes they are crooks. Yes they are not to be trusted. Yes their prices are absurd. But we concluded these things in the first few posts of this thread.

MagicJigPipe - 7-4-2008 at 20:55

For some reason "absurd" just doesn't do it justice. I can't think of a word strong enough to describe this lunacy.

Anyway, moving on...

Sauron - 7-4-2008 at 21:12

I could say same about 1 g and 5 g package pricing from Aldrich.

I am no defender of sciencelab.com but there's a certain anti-economy build into small packaging. You might compare these ridiculous prices with Aldrich's ridiculous prices.

Speaking of ridiculous I looked up barium thiocyanate on Alfa a few days ago. Almost $899/Kg. Now that;s ridiculous.

MagicJigPipe - 7-4-2008 at 21:24

That's true but when a 1g quantity is the only listed option, well... It's just... Like I said, indescribable.

Sauron - 7-4-2008 at 22:17

I guess the only appropriate response is NOT to buy from them.

Let this thread serve as a warning to others.

dochollidaydds - 15-5-2008 at 13:59

ScienceLab.com ripoff :mad:

Just posting an experience with these people. DO NOT purchase anything from them. I agree with the forum postings - they partially ship, then never reply to multiple inquiries on purchase orders, requests for refunds or updates on shipments that were never completed, rude phone service (hang up in your ear).

Now I have to turn to Bank of America to dispute the transaction.
Of all online purchase experiences, this was the worst web purchase transaction I ever made.
And I've made a lot of them over the years.!!

Caveat emptor Doc :cool:

evil_lurker - 15-5-2008 at 14:25

File a BBB complaint and contact the TX attorney general.

millerxia - 15-5-2008 at 15:55

sciencelab is a trading company, which almost same as Aldrich. We did not do business with it before. so i know little about it.It seem to be a big company;)

evil_lurker - 15-5-2008 at 16:41

This is not how you do business... as quoted from Sciencelab.com's TOS

"Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify you should any of the products ordered be unable to ship at the time order is placed. These items will then be considered special order items by Sciencelab.com, Inc.. A special order cannot be cancelled and will not be refunded after 3 business days of this notification unless Sciencelab.com, Inc. is unable to procure your item."

And it gets worse:

"Sciencelab.com, Inc. will notify the customer by email should any additional information(s) be required to fulfill your order. Sciencelab.com, Inc. is not responsible for any non-compliance on the customers behalf. If any item requires information(s) from regulatory departments within Sciencelab.com, Inc. or on behalf of federal and local governments. The customer will be required to provide these institutions with any and all information requested, failure to do so will result in the customer being out both product and the product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.
If product is in stock and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out product and fees no less than $35.00 and not to exceed 50% of Sciencelab.com, Inc. published price. If product is considered a special order item as defined by Sciencelab.com's Policy on Special Orders and shipping is denied by any or all-regulatory departments customer will be out all product costs as published on Sciencelab.com, Inc. website.
Sciencelab.com, Inc. does not assume the responsibility of knowing or informing the customer of these regulations at the time of purchase. Sciencelab.com, Inc. will take good faith measures to make sure the customer is notified of any regulatory departments compliance or non-compliance issues at the time of our notification by such departments or if we do have prior knowledge of such regulations at the time of order placement. "

"Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation of our offer to sell. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason. sciencelab.com reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order, without prior notice to you, to supply less than the quantity you ordered of any item. All orders placed over $2000.00 (U.S.) must obtain pre-approval with an acceptable method of payment, as established by our credit and fraud avoidance department. We may require additional verifications or information before accepting any orders. "

And the cherry on the bullshit cake:

"You agree that any legal action brought against SCIENCELAB.COM Inc. shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas without regard to its conflict of law principles. You agree that the sole jurisdiction and venue for any litigation arising from your use of or orders made on the sciencelab.com sites shall be an appropriate federal or state court located in Harris County Texas. "

These guys are a definate rip off scam. With that kind of TOS your only inviting trouble upon yourself if you attempt to place and order with them. Their TOS basically allows them to keep your money and not ship the product.

soxhlet - 16-5-2008 at 05:09

Many of the members here should go to sciencelab.com site an leave email to the company. Be nice. Be professional. Simply request that they come to this thread an address/answer concerns/questions put forward by the constituent market they claim to serve i.e. hobbists.

When contacting sciencelab, please request RSVP to your invitations.

Pulverulescent - 16-5-2008 at 13:34

'You really think they'll comply, soxhlet; 'seems to me like naivete on your part, if you don't mind me saying. . .?

P

soxhlet - 16-5-2008 at 18:07

I doubt they'd comply. Its probably a very small business (as in one person).

If they were to receive a hundred or so email requests from members here, they/he might be more likely to attend. Couple hundred hobbists is likely a considerable portion of their/his prospective market base.

The steal money

maozim - 17-5-2008 at 10:26

I placved an order for like $2000. This was 3 or so years ago. There was like 12 items, and they eventually shipped 2 of them (KI and NaOH). These were only like $300 then.

I called and talked to people 200 times. Eventually, their computer system "became updated" and "orders that old were not able to be seen in this system." The manager who had access to the old system never could be reached, and they never responded to my complaint at the BBB.

Sp***rum chemical, although pricey comapred to sigma or alfa, works fine for me for many things. The brief hassle setting up an account was not as hard as setting up an account with most companies (still thourough and legitamte). I will never order from a company that lists an encyclopedia of chemicals, but dosen't require a TIN or business lisence. No one that big who is not sketchy would take orders with no requirements.

MagicJigPipe - 17-5-2008 at 11:38

What's Sp***rum chemical? And why/how did you spend $2000 for a first order? I would NEVER do that even if I had that much money to spend on chemicals.

Pulverulescent - 17-5-2008 at 11:42

I, too, am curious about the missing "ect" of Spectrum, Moazim.

P

Pulverulescent - 17-5-2008 at 12:13

And, again just out of curiosity, what were the missing ten?

P

shadow - 17-5-2008 at 12:45

I just signed up with Spectrum, but as a hobbyist, I not expecting results.

Their sign up sheet had nothing too demanding execpt a company name, however they emailed me an acknowledgement of the order followed by:

"A Spectrum sales representative will
contact you shortly with a confirmation number for your order. "

I hope they email me because I'm ususally not home during work hours, and if they call, no one here is going to answer with the "company name".

I'm not holding my breath.

maozim, what can I expect?

[Edited on 17-5-2008 by shadow]

[Edited on 17-5-2008 by shadow]

soxhlet - 17-5-2008 at 18:19

you guys never heard of spectrum? sheez MJP, get with the program.

Spectrum is rather strict. I have a customer account with them. They will request a tax ID number. And, if there is anything fishy about your interview, they will not give you an account and they will report you to LE. And, you will become the target of someone who wishes for you to be an arrest victim regardless of whether or not you are doing anything "illegal".

I have heard prosecutors say "tell you client to grow up" to defense attorneys whose clients object to plea offers on the baisis of being innocent of the allegations.

So, oh well, the system steam rolls us little ants. Well, anyone reading this can send a bitch email to www.sales@sciencelab.com

Stand up and grow a pair. If enough of us say stop the bucking fullshit someone will listen.

MagicJigPipe - 17-5-2008 at 19:13

Of course I've never heard of them. Why would I care one bit about them if they require a tax ID. They are as useful to me as a screen door on a battleship (like Fisher). Therefore my interest and thus knowledge of their existence = 0.

At this point nobody is going to listen unless their life depends on it, if you know what I mean. It sucks that it's come to that. BTW kids, violence is not cool, stay in school, DARE to stay off drugs, the US government kicks ass and all that...

undead_alchemist - 17-5-2008 at 19:39

Spectrum also asks for Business licenses too.
Some things that they carry are not to over priced.
They too repack a lot of chemicals. Many from India or China.

shadow - 17-5-2008 at 21:40

Hey sox,
How do you know they'll take it farther than a denial?
The one other company (cole parmer)that denied my purchase was never heard from again other that emails to purchase their products that they refused to sell to me.

Pulverulescent - 18-5-2008 at 10:19

Quote:

Originally posted by soxhlet
you guys never heard of spectrum? sheez MJP, get with the program.

I hadn't of them, either; I just filled in the blanks. . .

They'd be useless to me anyway, since I'm on the EFI.

'Trouble is, there's very few suppliers on this fucking sod of turf, anyway, and what few there are are total rippers-offers and suspicious as fuck, to boot!

P

Pulverulescent - 18-5-2008 at 12:38

Quote:

I hadn't of them, either

Christ!. . .What's wrong with me---now I'm forgetting not just letters. . .but entire words.

I need a vacation, or something!

P

Pulverulescent - 18-5-2008 at 12:42

'Or maybe an indefinite course of Risperdal. . .

P

shadow - 18-5-2008 at 13:19

EFI?

Enrico Fermi Institute
European Federation of Immunogenetics
Engineering, Fire Investigations
Equestrian Federation of Ireland
Expeditionary Forces Institute
Electronic Fuel Injection?
more available on request

Pulverulescent - 18-5-2008 at 13:52

Quote:

Originally posted by shadow
Equestrian Federation of Ireland

Very evincive, shadow, and lighthearted---'caused a long gurgling chuckle, too.

Anyway, would that it were the (sob. . . !) first on the list, but it's as far removed from that as is physically possible; 'too mundane for words, as well. . .

The one above is kinda' close, but alas, no cigar!

BTW, wasn't Lewis Black sooo right when he said "equestrian" was the gayest word in the English language?

I'm in Ireland, or the "Emerald fucking Isle", as I've taken to calling it, of late!

P

Pulverulescent - 18-5-2008 at 13:56

'Just to clarify---the Risperdal reference really was a joke!

P

jim30082 - 17-8-2009 at 10:47

From browsing around on the web it looks like they are ripping off even larger institutions now. It is unbelievable something has not been done to stop them!

ScienceLabDotCom - 11-11-2009 at 17:38

I'm blown away that this thread was initially started back in 2007, and it's still getting pings a couple years later.

We were ripped off as well by sciencelab.com... charged immediately for what were looking for, but never received what we had ordered.

Since then, we've been able to talk to several different points of contact, and have been told several times that our refund was processed by a couple different means... only to find that this was not the case.

So, we've decided to lash out the best way we know how. The internet.

http://sciencelabdotcom.blogspot.com/

We're starting a blog to try and document and centralize the great deal of complaints against this company. We're hoping to publish as many stories as possible, and use it as a place to vent for those that are angered that this company can keep getting away with this.

If you'd like to contribute, please contact the authors at sciencelabdotcom@gmail.com.

Good luck, and safe shopping!

hissingnoise - 12-11-2009 at 09:50

I've had just a quick look---enough to say, I applaud your resourcefulness. . .
I'll get back to you on studying your site fully.
Isn't the 'net a useful tool for people like us?

gnitseretni - 12-11-2009 at 13:25

Maybe a hacker should disable their website or something.

Just saying

hissingnoise - 12-11-2009 at 14:37

There's no reason to sound apologetic, gnitsertni---I was hoping for something similar---only worse!

gnitseretni - 12-11-2009 at 15:23

Click on their google ads. Clear cookies and do it again

hissingnoise - 12-11-2009 at 15:43

Or find out where they're based---and pay them a personal visit?

gnitseretni - 12-11-2009 at 17:40

Tempting.. isn't it?

ScienceLabDotCom - 12-11-2009 at 18:11

This hacker idea? Brilliant.

I might or might have all of the owners personal contact information... checked out their houses on Google maps. Figured out what middle schools athletic booster clubs they are corporate sponsers of...

...I mean, what?

If anything, I have a negative amount of sympathy towards them and any misfortune that should fall on their business. Yep.

anotheronebitesthedust - 12-11-2009 at 19:27

Pranks are always fun... One time to get back at my neighbor, I emailed the Jehovah Witnesses website and requested a personal visit to sign up.

Or you could always put dogshit in a box and mail it to them. But I think you could actually get in trouble for that if they found out it was you.

anotheronebitesthedust - 12-11-2009 at 19:28

Or just rape his wife.

meme - 12-11-2009 at 22:38

They robbed me of a ton of money like four years ago. They delivered oxone and ki though.

And I have a legit business!

hissingnoise - 13-11-2009 at 01:59

Quote: Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust

Or just rape his wife.

And then his dog. . .

gnitseretni - 13-11-2009 at 04:50

Yeah, i know the hacker idea was a good one. Let them feel it where we felt it... our pockets!!

gnitseretni - 22-1-2010 at 04:53

I'll be damned!! I once ordered 1Kg of some product and only got 700g. They said there were out of stock and I had to wait for the rest but never got it. Now, about.. a year(?) later, I emailed them and said that losing a customer over a lousy 300g of product is stupid and that I would start ordering chems from them again if they send me the 300g of product they still owed me. Well guess what.. although it did take a week of emailing back and forth, yesterday I received my 300g of product

Oh and Jessica(from sciencelab) if you're reading this.. I lied, I'll never order from you assholes again

ScienceLabDotCom - 2-2-2010 at 13:57

Haha... that is pretty awesome right there. I'm surprised they obliged and fulfilled your request.

I like to check in on this every once in a while... we've had a few responses to the blog we started.

http://sciencelabdotcom.blogspot.com/

This guy down below... this guy is awesome. His experience with Sciencelab.com is as recent as a a couple days ago, complete with photodocumentation.

http://www.ecstaticlyrics.com/pinnwand/messages/sciencelab_c...

I really, really would like to see this company go under...

Sauron - 3-2-2010 at 06:22

Anyone foolish enough to order from sciencelab after reading such clearcut thievery, deserves whatever happens.

chemchemical - 4-2-2010 at 14:14

Yes, do not order from them. I actually got a refund after calling about 5 times, but they only refunded half! I called again and they acted like it was some mistake and said they would refund the other half. If it doesn't come through in the next day or two I'll keep calling.

If you bother them enough, you'll get something back.

I just can't believe they've been in business this long. Its a good thing I only did a test order, but that was still pretty expensive due to their already high prices. The one girl acted like she was new, even though I've seen her name on this board before.

Sauron - 4-2-2010 at 16:38

How can you tell when they are lying?

Their lips str moving.

helleborine - 21-2-2010 at 15:57

Hi

I was robbed by sciencelab.com and I'm going all over the internet to give them bad reviews.

They did their usual schtick; half the order (the most expensive half) was back ordered for 4 months - too late to reverse credit card charges). I told them to cancel the most expensive items, and send the two cheaper ones.

They never refunded me the $175.00 overcharged. I have a bottle of the world's most expensive, vintage (it's so old, it's amber instead of clear) propylene glycol. I basically paid $378/L for the product.

They don't answer the phone; they don't return messages; they don't reply to emails.

I have complained to the BBB, the attorney general and AC3.

helleborine - 22-2-2010 at 14:17

You may want to leave a bad review here:
http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/sciencelab.com/

It will leave a bad mark for them, in the GOOGLE RESULT PAGES for all people that use the free siteadvisor service.

It's probably THE MOST DAMNING bad mark for a website in terms of lost business.

UnintentionalChaos - 22-2-2010 at 16:48

I need to read more closely. Was going to say the BBB, but you did already.

[Edited on 2-23-10 by UnintentionalChaos]

helleborine - 23-2-2010 at 08:30

The BBB has no teeth, sciencelab.com is an online business.

If the subset of people that use SiteAdvisor in their google searches see a red X next to the sciencelab.com listing, they are unlikely to visit the site to begin with, and a popup window will warn them away.

It would be very useful if people that have been victims of sciencelab.com fraud (and I understand there may be a handful visiting this forum) wrote a review with SiteAdvisor.

It's the one review that web users may receive passively BEFORE surfing the the sciencelab.com website.

[Edited on 23-2-2010 by helleborine]

helleborine - 11-3-2010 at 10:18

Persistence pays off!

I have contacted the Houston community papers with the story, they are INTERESTED in running a story after checking out the BBB complaints, and I will be giving them a phone interview tomorrow morning about their dishonest dealings.

Any advice on what I should stress?

[Edited on 11-3-2010 by helleborine]

javagamer - 11-3-2010 at 11:59

You might want to focus on the fact that they've ripped off universities as well as many hobbyists.

helleborine - 11-3-2010 at 19:20

Where can I find the information about them ripping off universities?

mr.crow - 11-3-2010 at 20:03

This horrible website is mentioned several times on Wikipedia for MSDS links.

Perhaps someone could start a discussion there to have them all removed.

watson.fawkes - 11-3-2010 at 20:15

Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow

This horrible website is mentioned several times on Wikipedia for MSDS links.

Perhaps someone could start a discussion there to have them all removed.

Wikipedia is a wiki. You can edit it yourself.

mr.crow - 11-3-2010 at 20:53

I'm too lazy for that. Someone else there might feel like changing 100 links

helleborine - 12-3-2010 at 07:56

There's only 121 such WIKI links. I will remove them all this morning.

They have 12 pending complaints at the Attorney General's office.

I snail-mailed a complaint to the IRS. I doubt they pay taxes, they live in a castle, like kings.

I'm feisty, aren't I.

anotheronebitesthedust - 12-3-2010 at 08:51

Stacey Tyler is listed under Directors for The Humble ISD Education Foundation. If I had been ripped off by Sciencelab, I'd simply find all the phone numbers of anyone who is at all associated with Rob or Stacey Tyler, and call each and every one of them. Email, telephone, facebook, family members, even write letters to their kids asking if mommy and daddy have my money.

http://www.humbleisdfoundation.org/About_Us/board.asp

[Edited on 12-3-2010 by anotheronebitesthedust]

helleborine - 12-3-2010 at 09:06

I've removed 40 wiki sciencelab.com entries. It's taking a while, because I'm replacing it with a link from non-criminal sources, but I hope to remove them all.

Anything else I could do?

helleborine - 12-3-2010 at 09:08

Thanks for the Board of Directors link. I have forwarded it to the journalist.

helleborine - 12-3-2010 at 10:56

Look at how sciencelab.com acquires chemicals, and where they come from:

http://www.tradeindia.com/buyoffer/2142914/Urea.html

helleborine - 12-3-2010 at 11:42

This is wikipedia for you... I've just been blocked because I'm spamming, supposedly, with links.

Even if the links are to MSDS from JT Baker, Fischer, etc.

"No good deed shall go unpunished"

They've undone all my edits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tim_Song

UPDATE:
They revoked the block, I'm continuing to obliterate their Wikipedia presence.

As I was doing this, something dawned on me. I was looking up MSDS, and sometimes, the chemical name on the wiki page was antiquated, and in disuse. Sciencelab.com seems to be the only source of MSDS for these antiquated terms. I had to dig up modern names in order to find the actual, more modern MSDS versions. I wonder if their MSDS are even accurate. How can they be the only ones with an MSDS for some chemicals??? I think they may be FAKING it.

I won't follow up on this suspicion as I'm afraid that it's beyond my competence.

[Edited on 12-3-2010 by helleborine]

[Edited on 12-3-2010 by helleborine]

anotheronebitesthedust - 12-3-2010 at 13:28

You could also look up Rob Tyler in the Houston white pages and call each number and ask for Stacey. Once you find out where they live you can really start having fun.
http://hellohouston.com/WP/white-pages.cfm

helleborine - 12-3-2010 at 14:28

Their home phone is 281.358.7677

They live HERE

Personal Facebook page

Business Facebook page

This is where the scavenged, degraded, barely identified chemicals and glassware are repackaged to maintain a semblance of legitimacy.

Thieving has made them very rich.

=================

In other news, they have no more links on the wiki.

[Edited on 12-3-2010 by helleborine]

helleborine - 12-3-2010 at 14:36

I may be a crazed, internet stalking Sciencelab victim, but one thing I won't do is call them at home - I am a law-abiding citizen. No. I have bigger, better plans for them that use legal channels.

I hope that the newspaper story this week will result in the attorney general's office to wake up from its slumber and place them under arrest. I also have a letter posted to the IRS, I doubt they're honest with the taxman. I simply told the IRS the truth, and that dishonest people like them might yield a rewarding audit.

I want them to be put behind bars, or at very least, be financially ruined for years to come. I might tolerate them living in a rented flat and wearing hand me downs.

Much more satisfying than insulting people on the phone.

undead_alchemist - 12-3-2010 at 17:14

Nice touch of posting the links on their facebook page..

mr.crow - 12-3-2010 at 19:26

Good thing you sorted out the wikipedia thing

As for posting the personal links, that's what happens when Internet Hate Machine gets going

I think the IRS is going to do it, you don't mess around with them.

Skyjumper - 13-3-2010 at 13:25

Well, I do notice they are near those giant power lines. Don't they mess with your brain?

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