Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Testing EMs during thunder storms

Pyro_cat - 30-4-2018 at 13:26


Hi guys and gals,

I read this forum alot since finding it so I finally signed up to share some of my ideas.

Testing EMs can often be quite noisy and can upset the neighbors but if you wait for an lightning storm and all the booms that come with it and did a test that somewhat coincided with a thunder clap who would notice the difference ?

For less noisy tests revving up and stalling the lawn tractor or motorcycle and making a few backfires and faking like your having motor problems can also trick people who would otherwise get upset over fireworks.

symboom - 30-4-2018 at 13:30

Ok i see your point very smart idea

aga - 30-4-2018 at 13:47

Utter rubbish.

Ok Kids, hands up if anyone can see a problem with this idea ?

Whoa ! Whoa ! 1 at a time please.

urea1990 - 30-4-2018 at 14:04

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Utter rubbish.

Ok Kids, hands up if anyone can see a problem with this idea ?

Whoa ! Whoa ! 1 at a time please.


I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

The deep boom of thunder and the sharp 'snap' of primary detonations sound basically the same, amirite?

SWIM - 30-4-2018 at 14:18

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Utter rubbish.

Ok Kids, hands up if anyone can see a problem with this idea ?

Whoa ! Whoa ! 1 at a time please.


The gods will take offense at your attempts to imitate their thunder and strike you down for your hubris?

At least that's what a masked chanting chorus told me last time I tried it.

I swear it was almost enough to drive me to cloud-cuckoo-land.

urea1990 - 30-4-2018 at 14:20

Quote: Originally posted by SWIM  
Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Utter rubbish.

Ok Kids, hands up if anyone can see a problem with this idea ?

Whoa ! Whoa ! 1 at a time please.


The gods will take offense at your attempts to imitate their thunder and strike you down for your hubris?

At least that's what a masked chanting chorus told me last time I tried it.

I swear it was almost enough to drive me to cloud-cuckoo-land.


It's a bit of a pain, really - you've got to make sure there's a thunderstorm and a historical torture re-enactment (for the screaming) going on at the same time - but sacrificing a brace of virgins to the volcano gods usually does the trick for me.

sodium_stearate - 30-4-2018 at 15:37

Or you could wait until the 4th of July or newyear's eve
when lots of loud fireworks are going off.

Come to think of it, those times might also be
handy for providing background noise
for anything else which may emit a rather loud report.....:cool:

Bert - 30-4-2018 at 17:10

Many people choose to fire charges electrically. This has the potential for disaster during a thunderstorm. I have known loaded and wired fireworks displays to fire nearly everything on the field at once from a nearby ground strike, blasters could tell you stories about such things happening as well.

As far as the 4th of July and New Year's eve giving cover? In some USA urban areas the fireworks display is a traditional time for gang bangers to shoot their rivals, since the noise is a lot less noticable- and potential witnesses/victims are mostly looking up, not at their surroundings. Plus there is a nice large crowd to hide in before and after.

How about digging a hole and doing tests underground. See the good Dr. Liptakov. He has shown pictures of how he made buried galleries large enough to test EFP performance fired horizontally at ranges sufficient for the slug to fully form, all you need is time, a shovel, some boards and sand. This also is wise for preventing flying debris from leaving the test site and striking who knows what, or whom.

Boomer used to talk about testing blasting cap performance in a 5 gallon bucket of sand. Inside his apartment. I wonder what has become of him.



[Edited on 5-1-2018 by Bert]

The Volatile Chemist - 30-4-2018 at 17:35

Quote: Originally posted by sodium_stearate  
Or you could wait until the 4th of July or newyear's eve
when lots of loud fireworks are going off.

Come to think of it, those times might also be
handy for providing background noise
for anything else which may emit a rather loud report.....:cool:


And then you just run into the same problem as detonating them any other day (at least here), because firecrackers/fireworks are illegal in residential areas too...

LearnedAmateur - 30-4-2018 at 21:38

Just set up some lightning rods in close proximity to your test site, then you’re guaranteed loud bangs to mask the explosions!

NeonPulse - 30-4-2018 at 21:55

kinda over complicated don’t you think? Just dig a hole or go where you won’t be heard.

Rocinante - 30-4-2018 at 22:03

My pet fish detonated blasting caps in a 5 l bucket (1.5 US gallons) filled with powdered gypsum or flower. Just make sure you cover most of the top with magazines/two or three books to block the most direct path of gasses and posible fragments. No problems at all.

VSEPR_VOID - 30-4-2018 at 23:46

At least where I live its completely legal to make as much noise as you like so long as you A) are not doing it after 10 PM and B) have a way to contain what ever is being set off/shot. Its actually legal here to go out into your back yard, in a neighborhood, and shoot so long as you have something to stop all the bullets. Sometimes you do not need to cover up bang, just know your local laws.

Morgan - 1-5-2018 at 06:41

This Amazing Power of Static Electricity came to mind, the pertinent part starting around the 6 minute mark.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2sSqzLPMb4s

I too thought of using a storm to mask some noise. The idea was to not only blend in with the sound of an approaching hurricane, but also be the first on my block to start a pulse jet using the ram air of the preceding gale force winds to get it going instead of using a compressed air source.

Recollecting another event there was a bank robbery in my town which took place during a thunderstorm and heavy downpour. Seems I remember some movies too where ongoing events mask digging and drilling operations to get to a bank vault.

Rhodanide - 1-5-2018 at 06:58

Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
This Amazing Power of Static Electricity came to mind, the pertinent part starting around the 6 minute mark.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2sSqzLPMb4s

I too thought of using a storm to mask some noise. The idea was to not only blend in with the sound of an approaching hurricane, but also be the first on my block to start a pulse jet using the ram air of the preceding gale force winds to get it going instead of using a compressed air source.

Recollecting another event there was a bank robbery in my town which took place during a thunderstorm and heavy downpour. Seems I remember some movies too where ongoing events mask digging and drilling operations to get to a bank vault.



All of this talk about hiding gunshots w/ thunder reminds me of a mission from my favorite game...
https://youtu.be/AKbZPDk9YZw?t=1m1s

DrP - 1-5-2018 at 07:47

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Utter rubbish.

Ok Kids, hands up if anyone can see a problem with this idea ?

Whoa ! Whoa ! 1 at a time please.


How rude! This the guy's second post here and you take the piss out of him and put him down straight away.... ffs. I guess this is why the Spanish reckon British immigrants are a bunch of arrogant bastards. Do we immigrate there and start being arse holes or do the arses just all go there to join the same club?


Anyway -

5th of November here (Bonfire Night/Fireworks Night/Guy Fawkes Night) - Best time to fire a gun without getting caught or to make bangs. I guess the immigrant above was suggesting that rain put out the primary or something like that - who knows. If it isn't raining though then why not? Sounds like others do it too.

urea1990 - 1-5-2018 at 07:55

Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Utter rubbish.

Ok Kids, hands up if anyone can see a problem with this idea ?

Whoa ! Whoa ! 1 at a time please.


How rude! This the guy's second post here and you take the piss out of him and put him down straight away.... ffs. I guess this is why the Spanish reckon British immigrants are a bunch of arrogant bastards. Do we immigrate there and start being arse holes or do the arses just all go there to join the same club?


Anyway -

5th of November here (Bonfire Night/Fireworks Night/Guy Fawkes Night) - Best time to fire a gun without getting caught or to make bangs. I guess the immigrant above was suggesting that rain put out the primary or something like that - who knows. If it isn't raining though then why not? Sounds like others do it too.


Yeah, the phrasing might have been brusque.

But wouldn't it be for the better just to be honest about it? If I saw my neighbour sneaking out in a thunderstorm and detonating EMs, I'd be far more worried than if he popped round and told me what he was doing.

This whole idea seems to be asking for a visit from the feds.

DrP - 1-5-2018 at 11:02

Quote: Originally posted by urea1990  

Yeah, the phrasing might have been brusque.


Yea - I'd like to apologise to aga as it goes.... I think I was a bit harsh too. I was stressy earlier, sorry.
Quote: Originally posted by urea1990  

But wouldn't it be for the better just to be honest about it? If I saw my neighbour sneaking out in a thunderstorm and detonating EMs, I'd be far more worried than if he popped round and told me what he was doing.

This whole idea seems to be asking for a visit from the feds.


You are probably right

urea1990 - 1-5-2018 at 11:40

Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
Quote: Originally posted by urea1990  

Yeah, the phrasing might have been brusque.


Yea - I'd like to apologise to aga as it goes.... I think I was a bit harsh too. I was stressy earlier, sorry.
Quote: Originally posted by urea1990  

But wouldn't it be for the better just to be honest about it? If I saw my neighbour sneaking out in a thunderstorm and detonating EMs, I'd be far more worried than if he popped round and told me what he was doing.

This whole idea seems to be asking for a visit from the feds.


You are probably right



Don't worry about it. All good!

Pyro_cat - 1-5-2018 at 13:21

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Boomer used to talk about testing blasting cap performance in a 5 gallon bucket of sand. Inside his apartment. I wonder what has become of him.
[Edited on 5-1-2018 by Bert]


Back in the day I had a gross of the old school real M-80s. I was on the beach and dug a narrow hole about 18 inches into the sand dropped a lit M-80 in quickly pushed in sand buried it. Expected to have sand blown into the air but nothing but a tiny thump.

Tried a similar thing that winter but in a pile of snow left by the snow plows. Used the handle of a shovel to poke a hole about three feet into the snow pile then dropped in the M-80, the result was nothing more then a light flash and very minor thump, the snow pile wasn't shaken at all. These were good M-80s, from the early 1990s china town, blew my PVC potato gun to bits as we were pretty sure it would but took cover and tried it anyway.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 1-5-2018 at 14:18

The pit in sand ground type, grass around for relevant results (or sawdust or leaves from trees) this light material usually 15 - 20 cm distance from main charge for exact result. And sand above of all. Example: original low loud sound in 1:30..:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxJLIk7dStw

JJay - 1-5-2018 at 14:40

I am not nearly as into EM as some people (while I am no slouch when it comes to producing conventional devices, I have only done a handful experiments in that area), so I guess the motivation for this post is lost on me... personally, I avoid ever experimenting with EM anywhere I wouldn't discharge a firearm, and even though most hobby EM stuff is legal, my advice is to act at all times as though if you are observed you will be taken prisoner by an oppressive military and treated as a terrorist. I would avoid experimenting with EM in a thunderstorm since I don't like playing in the rain.

Bert - 1-5-2018 at 17:41

It's been quite a while since USA law enforcement attitude on aprehending kids who were experimenting with EM (no dammages/injuries resulting) was "boys will be boys, no harm done, we and our friends did that too".

So if you simply must experiment with HE, keep it non obtrusive.

I have several times felt a very obvious ground shock wave through my feet at times and in places where I would not have expected it. Sometimes it was found to be from authorized commercial blasting. Other times, it might well have been one of YOU playing?

No above ground signature = no idea where to complain about it for those who might not like it. A huge BOOM! + a column of dirt/smoke going several hundred feet in the air, not so much.

If all you want is an enormous KABOOM! and you're not into recording other data, you may well end your EM experiments as a statistic for homeland security while they are lobbying for next year's budget increase.

Pyro_cat - 2-5-2018 at 17:31

Quote: Originally posted by LearnedAmateur  
Just set up some lightning rods in close proximity to your test site, then you’re guaranteed loud bangs to mask the explosions!


OK

"Researchers looking to capture the acoustic signature of thunder had to make their own lighting. A rocket fit with a grounded copper wire trail was blasted into a thundercloud so the wire could conduct an easily traceable shaft of lighting electricity."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvTeI74fVhE

The researchers said they hope that future work will help tease out more information about how the crashing sound of thunder is generated.

[Edited on 3-5-2018 by Pyro_cat]