Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Cooking accusations from my school - story

Cooking accusations from my school - story

Vosoryx - 21-3-2018 at 13:54

I see a lot of people talking about their run-in's with the police and such, so I decided to weigh in with today’s conversation I had about being a cook.
For context, i’m in highschool.

The principal of my school asked me to come to a meeting halfway through one of my classes. Surprised, I went, only to find my counsellor, chemistry teacher and both of my parents. Apparently, someone had “tipped off” the school that I was cooking MDA and selling it at school. That was a shock. I figure they got MDA due to my science fair project, which is extracting piperine from black pepper, and determining the purity from various extraction solvents. Indeed, one of the teachers even made a joke to me about making MDMA from the remains of my project. But how it became a rumor I have no idea.
My chemistry teacher, who has known me for quite some time, who’s seen my freaking lab, was accusing me of cooking. The principle even said that she was debating calling the RCMP. (Canadian cops) There were questions of if I was in local gangs, if I knew how to make drugs, etc. Obviously, I denied the allegations. But… I was removed from one of my classes and accused of being a drug cook by the teacher i am closest to at my school, and my parents.
All because of my hobby and my passion.
I love chemistry, but it feels like this is dangerous to me. Someone at my school hates me enough to fake stories about drug cookery, all because of what I love, and the administration bought into it.
Before they can “clear” me, (whatever the fuck that means) they have to have an RCMP officer look around my lab. Maybe he’ll decide that my KMnO4 is too dangerous, it is a restricted chemical in canada after all. Maybe he’ll decide that a teenage boy shouldn’t own chloroform. Maybe he too will decide that I am making drugs.
Fuck the bureaucrats. My passion has helped me through depression and self harm. What will I do if they take my coping mechanism away? All because of one ill informed police officer, or one assholistic jerk at my school who decided to fuck up my life.
Everyone of us has a story like this, where our passion has got us into unjust trouble because of a society that views us as a threat.
I’m not Walter White. I’m a barely a chemist.

But nobody listens to us anyway. They all think we’re cooks. Fuck ‘em.

Thanks for reading.

aga - 21-3-2018 at 14:07

Positive:

Despair not.

People are scared of things, in your case that's your youth and enthusiasm - they do not know which way you will go with chemistry, which scares them.

Keep cool and explain what you did, the Chemistry, and the Why.

Do not wait to be asked.

If nobody explains, then all they have is experience of meth cooks, every day.

Negative:

Why have chloroform hanging around when it is so easy to make ?

JJay - 21-3-2018 at 14:18

If you are just getting your first hotplate, it is extremely unlikely that you have made any MDA or MDMA. I wouldn't worry too much about it. You've probably been thinking that you since you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have to worry about looking like you're not doing anything wrong, so you've been giving off a vibe that makes people suspicious.

The easiest solution is to always act as if you're breaking the law. That way, no one will suspect anything.

violet sin - 21-3-2018 at 15:32

If you don't make/sell/use MDA or such drugs... Is there no way to attempt to counter with a suit for defamation? Someone clearly fingered you as a cook/distributor/dealer/user all in one go... They should be held accountable for crying wolf as such. If authorities are involved, someone should get a spanking, either a true cook or a true douche/liar. They are wasting resources and possibly tainting the good nature of your name.

Sad thing is I bet this individual did it to feel special. That, or just plain has a tremendous amount of spite for you... Unfortunate either way, best of luck.

RogueRose - 21-3-2018 at 15:53

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

If you are just getting your first hotplate, it is extremely unlikely that you have made any MDA or MDMA. I wouldn't worry too much about it. You've probably been thinking that you since you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have to worry about looking like you're not doing anything wrong, so you've been giving off a vibe that makes people suspicious.

The easiest solution is to always act as if you're breaking the law. That way, no one will suspect anything.

That makes no sense unless this kid is a sociopath... HTF his is supposed to act as if he has guilty knowledge all the time and still be "normal"?

What he should do is expect everyone is an idiot and explain what he is doing when others are around - it will probably go over most people's heads but hey, that isn't his problem. If he is cleared this time, I doubt there will be issues moving forward.

If people ask why you are doing "that" just tell them you learn something new each time - I do, even doing things I've don't MANY times before. I learn some little aspect that makes the technique a little better, faster, "more pure", etc. It's like a sport, why does an athlete run around the track more than once when they've already done it before..

[Edited on 3-22-2018 by RogueRose]

XeonTheMGPony - 21-3-2018 at 17:21

Quote: Originally posted by Vosoryx

I see a lot of people talking about their run-in's with the police and such, so I decided to weigh in with today’s conversation I had about being a cook.
For context, i’m in highschool.

The principal of my school asked me to come to a meeting halfway through one of my classes. Surprised, I went, only to find my counsellor, chemistry teacher and both of my parents. Apparently, someone had “tipped off” the school that I was cooking MDA and selling it at school. That was a shock. I figure they got MDA due to my science fair project, which is extracting piperine from black pepper, and determining the purity from various extraction solvents. Indeed, one of the teachers even made a joke to me about making MDMA from the remains of my project. But how it became a rumor I have no idea.
My chemistry teacher, who has known me for quite some time, who’s seen my freaking lab, was accusing me of cooking. The principle even said that she was debating calling the RCMP. (Canadian cops) There were questions of if I was in local gangs, if I knew how to make drugs, etc. Obviously, I denied the allegations. But… I was removed from one of my classes and accused of being a drug cook by the teacher i am closest to at my school, and my parents.
All because of my hobby and my passion.
I love chemistry, but it feels like this is dangerous to me. Someone at my school hates me enough to fake stories about drug cookery, all because of what I love, and the administration bought into it.
Before they can “clear” me, (whatever the fuck that means) they have to have an RCMP officer look around my lab. Maybe he’ll decide that my KMnO4 is too dangerous, it is a restricted chemical in canada after all. Maybe he’ll decide that a teenage boy shouldn’t own chloroform. Maybe he too will decide that I am making drugs.
Fuck the bureaucrats. My passion has helped me through depression and self harm. What will I do if they take my coping mechanism away? All because of one ill informed police officer, or one assholistic jerk at my school who decided to fuck up my life.
Everyone of us has a story like this, where our passion has got us into unjust trouble because of a society that views us as a threat.
I’m not Walter White. I’m a barely a chemist.

But nobody listens to us anyway. They all think we’re cooks. Fuck ‘em.

Thanks for reading.

Ah same shit, same province, Are you by chance in new westminster? if so your generally screwed as they do not care about truth or reality, BC has gon full retard, play along and get the hell out!

I loath the stupidity of the system their brains are so deep in their rectums,,, well there is just no words for it You have my sympathies.

[Edited on 22-3-2018 by XeonTheMGPony]

XeonTheMGPony - 21-3-2018 at 17:24

Quote: Originally posted by violet sin

If you don't make/sell/use MDA or such drugs... Is there no way to attempt to counter with a suit for defamation? Someone clearly fingered you as a cook/distributor/dealer/user all in one go... They should be held accountable for crying wolf as such. If authorities are involved, someone should get a spanking, either a true cook or a true douche/liar. They are wasting resources and possibly tainting the good nature of your name.

Sad thing is I bet this individual did it to feel special. That, or just plain has a tremendous amount of spite for you... Unfortunate either way, best of luck.

Sadly little, our system is extremely biased against males, they care very little for truth or accuracy and they simply decide your guilty evidence be damned, Record every thing long every thing and dump it all on every media outlet you can and they may get scared enough to pretend to look at the case.

I have less then zero trust based on my experiences.

sodium_stearate - 21-3-2018 at 17:49

Welcome to life in the real world!

It's a jungle out there. Lots of douchebags everywhere
one looks.

Good thing you are learning about how this works
firsthand at a young age. The experience you are gaining now
dealing with douchebags will serve you very well in the future.

Think of this recent episode as "Douchebags 101" :cool:

j_sum1 - 21-3-2018 at 20:14

Where are your parents in all of this? They should be able to vouch for you.

Why the hell is your chemistry teacher against you? This makes no sense at all. If he was the one who first brought up the subject of MDMA then he is the source of that rumour. If, as you say, there is no substance to that rumour then he should retract his statement. And he should face the music.

If someone has called the cops on you then I would be contacting a lawyer. You need to know ahead of time where you stand and what recourse is availble to you. You need to know what the cops can legally ask for and what is off-limits. There is power in being properly informed. And as for the cost of a lawyer, you probably have options there too.

LearnedAmateur - 21-3-2018 at 23:13

I’m sure it’s somewhat similar to the UK, here the police are obliged to check out any claims of drug manufacturing/selling, even if there is no evidence to support it because it’s such a serious crime - not quite up to scratch with the laws but you can get up to 14 years in prison for manufacturing class B drugs (which MDA falls under) and life for class A (MDMA, heroin, meth, etc.).

As long as there isn’t any direct evidence of drug production, namely traces of these compounds or something that will test positively, then you don’t have anything to worry about. I assume you’ll be present during the search, maybe not in the same room to prevent tampering but if they ask ‘what do you use this for?’ then being a knowledgeable chemist, you should be able to provide a legal answer and go the extra mile to give an example of a reaction you’ve used it in. The big difference between a chemist and a cook is that the latter only knows what a reagent is useful for when conducting a specific reaction. If person A and B happened to own reagent X for instance, the cook probably wouldn’t give you an unrehearsed answer if that, whereas the chemist could potentially give several uses either as a feedstock, solvent, or some other niche application.

All in all, it’s important you remain confident in yourself and your lab, it will be difficult but try to be as open and friendly as you naturally can - don’t force it. The one thing police jump on for ANY crime is nervousness and just acting shady because that conveys someone has reason to hide something. It’d be an inspector walking into a professional lab - if everyone is working and engages with the their enquiries, it will be a breeze, but if a group of scientists huddle in the corner whispering, occasionally glancing at them to monitor what they’re doing, then it could indicate something untoward is happening.

clearly_not_atara - 22-3-2018 at 00:25

KMnO4 is used to cleave piperine to piperonal. Well, in theory. No amateur chemist has succeeded with the route and reported it, and no lab bust has ever found people making MDMA this way (afaik), but it's still "common knowledge", lol. Anyway, if your chemistry teacher heard about your interest in permanganate this could have set off a red flag, even though, it seems, you were not aware of this use.

Don't bother telling them any of the above, btw, it will only make things worse, but hopefully it makes you feel less blindsided.

RogueRose: I assume that JJay means "with regard to telling people what you're doing". But I disagree; as an ethical matter, and possibly a legal one, and anyway to avoid legal complaints, you should always tell anyone sharing your building about any chemicals you work with.

[Edited on 22-3-2018 by clearly_not_atara]

LearnedAmateur - 22-3-2018 at 04:43

I thought that it was acheivable in practice, just that the yields are terrible because most of the piperonal is subsequently oxidised to piperonylic acid so isn’t a great route. Chemplayer did a video on the process: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6r9elLR2WjI

vmelkon - 22-3-2018 at 07:06

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

Where are your parents in all of this? They should be able to vouch for you.

Why the hell is your chemistry teacher against you? This makes no sense at all. If he was the one who first brought up the subject of MDMA then he is the source of that rumour. If, as you say, there is no substance to that rumour then he should retract his statement. And he should face the music.

If someone has called the cops on you then I would be contacting a lawyer. You need to know ahead of time where you stand and what recourse is availble to you. You need to know what the cops can legally ask for and what is off-limits. There is power in being properly informed. And as for the cost of a lawyer, you probably have options there too.

Lawyers costs money. A LOT OF MONEY. Something like 300$ an hour I imagine these days.

I recommend inviting the police and RCMP to your house. Remove the KMnO4 and chloroform and anything that is in large quantities. Leave behind 100 g of Na2SO4, 100 g CaCO3 and such. Tell them that they can take a sample and analyze it at their labs.

Yes, I understand it is inconvienient. In my case, my house is a mess.

Once the dust settles, start pointing some fingers at your teacher, at your school mates. Tell the cops that you overheard them saying that they bought MDMA, heroin, crack, marujuana. <-----That is up to you. Personally, I see it as a learning experience.

LearnedAmateur - 22-3-2018 at 07:13

Inviting the police, taking a pre-emptive course (of sorts, not really the first step but it readily demonstrates cooperation) is a good idea, but I would strongly recommend against a retaliation call because it’ll not only cause division between the school and Vosoryx but it’s also highly inconvenient to the police when they have better cases to investigate than simple possession. Here, it’s best to be as honest and innocent as possible, and it will make the school think twice about future misunderstandings such as this.

DraconicAcid - 22-3-2018 at 07:20

Quote: Originally posted by vmelkon

Lawyers costs money. A LOT OF MONEY. Something like 300$ an hour I imagine these days.

I'm currently paying one $300/hour because I get a discount. $400 is more common.

However, telling your asshole of a teacher that you WILL be pursuing legal action for his baseless accusations is absolutely free.

JJay - 22-3-2018 at 08:33

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara

RogueRose: I assume that JJay means "with regard to telling people what you're doing". But I disagree; as an ethical matter, and possibly a legal one, and anyway to avoid legal complaints, you should always tell anyone sharing your building about any chemicals you work with.

[Edited on 22-3-2018 by clearly_not_atara]

No, that's not it. I was referring to taking efforts to manage your reputation.

To give you some idea of what I'm talking about, think about Monsanto. Monsanto all but ended world hunger, but of course, they were villains for it. Companies that manufacture nerve gas are thought of more favorably. I am surely not the only one who sees that their reputation has improved greatly since Bayer has gotten involved.

As far as notifying everyone in your building, it really depends on the size and scale of your lab. If you have less than 4L of flammable liquids, you probably don't need to worry about notifying other people in the building unless you are playing with cyanide or something.

[Edited on 22-3-2018 by JJay]

Vosoryx - 22-3-2018 at 11:45

Well, thank you all for your support/advice.
I’ll elaborate and answer a few questions here.

Xeon: I’m not in new west, actually on vancouver island.
J_sum: My parents can’t definitively say i’m not making drugs… my knowledge of chemistry surpassed them both years ago.

I’ve invited my chemistry teacher back to my lab, he might be able to put a but more weight behind my side.
At this time, i’m still trying to figure out if this was gross incompetence or malice on the administration’s part. Naturally, i’m inclined to believe that due to the education system being overworked and under-funded, it’s the former… but I can’t tell.
Ironically, this caused me to look up the process of making MDA to see if the pepper thing is even possible. (I thought that if it wasn’t I could simply dismiss everything here) How funny - someone accusing me of making drugs caused me to search up how to make aforementioned drugs.
One more thing I want to clarify: my chemistry teacher isn’t the one who make the ecstasy joke. That was another teacher, who I went to for help. (Specifically, if he could put me in contact with someone at a nearby university so I could ask to use the NMR there for my project.)
I’m hopeful that, because i have done nothing wrong, this will go away and all mistakes will be accounted for. Saying that, I am fearful that, as is too often the case, this will get caught up in a rat’s nest of legal bureaucratic red-tape bullshit. I like to think that because i’m not in the states, things like that don’t happen… but… If that happens, there is a good chance my lab is gone.

I’m not hurting anyone - my lab is in a shed on our property (12 acres of forest, garden and swamp.) Not in the city, not sharing the building with anyone.

Thanks again.

unionised - 22-3-2018 at 11:51

The closest thing to good news is that the police are usually aware of the concept of evidence.

They are also aware of the concept of "wasting police time". I suggest that you (realistically your folks) remind your school of the fact that making baseless accusations is a crime in itself.

Explain that, if you don't get an apology that's at least as public as the allegation, you will sue.

NEMO-Chemistry - 22-3-2018 at 17:16

One thing police can spot is a meth lab, small scale labs its jam jars. Bigger labs are factories! Its likely they are just checking it out.

JJay - 22-3-2018 at 19:34

You probably have nothing to worry about, but treat it like the Inquisition is trying you for witchcraft and impure thoughts. And while there is nothing wrong with having chloroform, it has an undeservedly bad reputation among the masses, so it's probably better not to have it sitting on the shelves when the police come knocking.

WangleSpong5000 - 22-3-2018 at 20:35

The thing is so many reasonably obtainable or easily purchased items (and I don't just mean immediate precursors to controlled substances that are in themselves a lesser grade of controlled substance) are basically all around us and any half decent chemist could 'cook up' all sorts of things wonderful things. The sheer number of awfully convenient starting materials in your mums spice rack, boring part of a medicine cupboard, in big cans and/or bottles of carcinogenic goop at the hardware store and endless wonderfull flavours and salts from a home brewing place or speciality food supply place... Man put your mind to it and make something fun if it's your thing... but you'll likely get caught and put away for a quarter of your life. Just go to the doctors or a rave... it's much easier but hey... what can you do...

Do your chemistry my dude. Just do your research and know your rights. And fuck yeah you can sue them. If you got money to burn... a lot of money.

Ppl that get caught for small time drug manufacturer are usally hopeless bogans so dirt poor that smoking pipes all day is just what they do... poor sods who live in squalor and given the chance to escape their existence for a few days on a bender (summation of benders lol) relish the chance. Plus a lot of these ppl are not very bright... there's really
no reason why these 'labs' should go *poof* in a huge fireball of god knows how much ether, naphtha or some other lovely fumey Non polar solvent as often as they do...

'Unsatisfactory laboratory practices' ... lol

Long story short. Drugs have a stigma. Chemistry is linked to drugs. And if I've learned one thing about this awesome site: Don't talk about drug manufacture and if you do refer to the first principles inherent in the reaction even though everyone knows exactly what you're doing hahahaha...

Yeah so tell all the adults to fuck off. They have no right to question you or at least we should all be given the benefit of the doubt. Fuck em... Keep standing on the shoulders of giants man...

Melgar - 22-3-2018 at 20:56

Honestly, if you're being accused of making MDA, it could be worse. You could be accused of making methamphetamine. Pretty much anything can be used for evidence of that.

sodium_stearate - 23-3-2018 at 07:30

Something else to consider also is the fact that
anyone who has independent thoughts is always
viewed with suspicion.

Anyone that does anything outside of the regular
hum-drum existence of TV watching, sports, entertainment,
is always suspected of being up to no good.

In short, the few who think beyond the confines of "society"
must put up with stuff such as you just encountered at your
school.

Reboot - 23-3-2018 at 17:01

Once, a man's life was in ruins. His business was on the verge of bankruptcy, his marriage was falling apart, and every day seemed filled with misery and hopelessness. Desperate, he went to visit a famous wise old monk living in the mountains, seeking spiritual advice. After telling the monk his story, the wise old monk simply smiled at him and said, "It will pass."

The man didn't feel very reassured by this, but he decided to try to be patient and went home. A few months later, the man came to visit the old monk again, this time filled with excitement. His business was making him rich, he and his wife had reconnected and had never been more in love, and his heart was filled with peace and joy. 'Thank you!' he told the monk, 'you were absolutely right! My life is finally perfect!'

The wise old monk merely smiled and said..."It will pass."

I'm afraid I don't have much advice on the current situation other than to be open and polite. But either way, it will pass. Don't get lost in reacting to others or looking for perfect justice; just keep living your own life with integrity and kindness. Hard work will make you successful. Kindness will make you happy. Everything else will be carried away by the river of time.

Dragonjack12 - 28-11-2018 at 17:39

Any up date.

Vosoryx - 30-11-2018 at 13:20

Well, it seems to have gone away. Who did it i don't know, but it seems like my honest telling as well as showing off that I am not an illegal chemist sufficed. It hasn't been an issue since.
That's as much as I have...

DrP - 4-12-2018 at 04:54

Quote: Originally posted by violet sin

I was thinking the exact same thing - someone has cried wolf and wasted police time and should be charged. You should counter sue for false accusations imo....