Sciencemadness Discussion Board - we've got a problem...

we've got a problem...

Elawr - 13-2-2007 at 08:32

You've probably noticed by now that some entity named "messagini", or something has breached forum security and launched some kind of spamming attack. Check today's messages. Note the number of posts so far from this new member to our forum.

I am going to send U2U and alert Polverone.

Rosco Bodine - 13-2-2007 at 09:37

There probably should be some sort of anti-spammer
security measures implemented .....perhaps making
new member accounts " read only " for thirty days ,
or creating some sort of buffer that holds and delays
their messages being posted ....so that these DOS
attacks and spamming get stopped by the gatekeeper ,
who optionally may pour burning oil down upon the
spammers unworthy head

garage chemist - 13-2-2007 at 09:41

The new spammer today seems to be a Bot (e.g. not a person, but a program). We should add a picture verification for setting up a new account to prevent bots from registering. Most other forums already have this.

We also need to do something against spammers which are not programs, like "gil" who keeps re-registering under different usernames.
Maybe more moderators?

Rosco Bodine - 13-2-2007 at 09:57

Aside from the spam and DOS sort of problem .....

Is it just me ? , or lately more and more hasn't there been
a fair bit of thinly disguised topics of the sort that
goes something to the effect :

It's so cool to make dope and blow shit up ....
so do you have any good recipes for making dope
and blowing shit up ?

It's like I keep waiting
for somebody to post the question next should
they make shit and pound salt or have they got
it backwards the sequence they need to get where
they are going

Maybe we need a subcategory in detritus
for douchebag effluent

Sauron - 13-2-2007 at 10:21

I think the 30 day read only idea for new members is a good one.

And I concurr that this appears to be a bot rather than a malicious human.

And while it has the feel of a DOS attack it didn't actually deny anyone service, it made the Today's Post feature look like hell for a while and also one and only one forum topic where all the posts went.

I'd vote no resoundingly to a visual hoop to jump through, just because I recently had to do just that on another forum to register (E&W) and it took me forever. I have DR (Diabetic Retinopathy) and my contrast is all screwed up so those things are a hassle for me, and I hate being hassled just so I can be distinguished from a bot.

As to the influx of druggies, well, as much as I hate the drugs, and I do, it is really hard to make a hard and fast pronouncement and say"This is Good Chem and this is Bad Chem." Simply because it is too subjective. I do agree that if someone's chemistry is nonexistant and all they want is a How To on meth cookery in 3EZ Lessons then they ought to get the boot. With prejudice. But same goes for a nonchemist who wants a quick dirty bomb plan or a nonchemist who wants to know how to make VX in his attic. Or the newbie today who had us confused with a PC mart "What notebook should I buy and what configuration?" Hey, go ask Jerry Pournelle.

And that's my two cents FWIW.

YT2095 - 13-2-2007 at 10:31

I watched this troll from post one today, and it angered me (quite a bit actualy), as a long time Moderator on another forum, I`de have given my Kingdom just for the Suspend User option :mad:

I`m actualy on here 24/7 (although invisible) and check in regularly for updates and interesting posts and/or threads, I respect this place and Hate seeing it being shit on! :mad:

`nuff said.

not_important - 13-2-2007 at 11:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Sauron
I think the 30 day read only idea for new members is a good one.

Speaking from experience back in the heydays of the computer BBS, and acknowledging that changes may require non-trival software modifications :

Simple RO for that long tends to discourage actual new users. A fair number of people start posting because they have a question or comment, discovering that it's a month before they can leave makes the place less than useful for them. Certainly has caused my to drop sites from my hot list.

Back in the old days there were spammers, but the "Christmas modem" was a worse problem. At time such as Christmas or the end or start of school, teens would receive the gift of a new *1200 baud* modem or even a new computer. They would soon decend upon the BBSes, scattering messages nearly at random.

One solution that seemed to work was instead of a full RO lock, new users were restricted on how many messages they could post in 24 hours. The better implementations slowly opened that window based on a combination of how old the account was and how many 'open' message, not U2U type or those deleted or twit-bitted, the user had left.

A new user that just lurked would have the window opened very slowly. One that left a non-offensive message or two per day would have the window opened wider more quickly, twit-bitting might close the window although some sysops prefered to let such users continue to leave message that only they would read.

Captcha style sign-up screening can help against fully automated attacks. But if there is a person who is out to harass the system, they can easily do the original signup and then unlease the attack script.

olmpiad - 13-2-2007 at 16:08

"as a long time Moderator on another forum"

Would you be referring to SFN?

The_Davster - 13-2-2007 at 16:10

Yeah I got online early this morning and deleted an entire page of those spam threads. Did not notice he was still doing it...was there many more?

Fleaker - 13-2-2007 at 16:24

Yeah he did about six pages worth.

Either another mod is needed, or a change in forum rules. Lately we just seem to be the victim of spammers and trolls...

chemoleo - 13-2-2007 at 17:51

The picture verification would be best, but I am not sure if it is implementable.
There is little protection against someone who's using proxys as the IP varies, so IP bans are useless.

Levi - 13-2-2007 at 18:04

I was reading the forum for about 2 weeks before I ever felt the need to register. If I had to wait an additional 30 days before being able post I'd be pretty pissed. 1 week... maybe. 30 days? Ridiculous.

Sauron - 13-2-2007 at 21:41

One of the other chemistry forums warns newbies that posting repetitive material (without doing a search first), asking for anything, or asking a stupid question will get then booted out.

On that forum new members are made to feel decidedly unwelcome to post, they are explicitly told they should lurk for months and become familiar with the material BEFORE posting anything, and that only then, and when they have something new and worthy to contribute, should they post.

All that is AFTER being made to jump through hoops to register, it took me two attempts to register, with numerous sub-attempts each time. First time, after the system accepted me, the registration was suspended pending moderator approval. This was denied because they don't like Hushmail accounts. But NOWHERE did they inform anyone of that in advance.

All this was highly annoying.

In the end I did get registered and now I use that place for source material, I do not post there, I post what I learn HERE instead.

Screw them, if they can't take a joke.

Don't turn this forum into anything like that one please.

Being on that forum is a lot like I imagine prison must be like. Rigid and draconian.

YT2095 - 14-2-2007 at 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by olmpiad
"as a long time Moderator on another forum"

Would you be referring to SFN?

I was indeed, but refrain from mentioning it by name too often as it seems like Advertising. and I think this place gets enough of that already.

woelen - 14-2-2007 at 03:56

What I like of sciencemadness is the ease at which you can register and the friendly attitude to new members (provided they are serious people and not trolls or lazy make-my-homework types of persons). I would be really sad if sciencemadness became a place where people would be scared to post, being afraid to get banned. Such an atmosphere would be highly contra-productive and would in the long run kill the forum.

On the other hand, I see the problem of trolls, spammers, etc. So, if possible, it would be good if the registration process contains some technical hurdles, which can be overcome only by human intervention. An image-reading and matching mechanism can leave out automated bots/spammers, but they do not leave out trolls.

One solution could be the mechanism, as used by Paypal. They let you use the server for a while, such that you get started quickly, but they ask you to get validated if you want to use the service for a longer time and for more transactions. It would be nice if the forum software allows new users posting 10 times or so, and then a moderator or otherwise assigned person can approve the user, or reject him. This would require more moderator effort, but one could appoint a larger group of trusted members for this specific task, without the need to give them other moderator powers.

YT2095 - 14-2-2007 at 04:06

a bit like our News fora, you may post, but it has to be approved by staff before it`s available for General viewing.

Nice Idea Woelen

Sauron - 14-2-2007 at 17:54

We've got ANOTHER problem.

I just found, in the Inbox of the email account which is registered here, an email with subject line "Sciencemadness whackos" and addressed to Sauron.

Sener JohnSxyz@yahoo.com

He alludes to SM members being Al Quaeda, praises my "arguments" with them (what arguments?) and goes on to say that he has been repeatedly banned from here everytime he registers (i.e. THIS IS THE TROLL!) and then he offers me three hyperlinks embedded in the email to something called faithfreedom.com

Now my momma and poppa did not raise any kids stupid enough to click through on a link from an unknown sender, and most certainly not on one from a suspected TROLL.

My point is: beware of emails from this guy or anyone you don't know and never ever click through.

The_Davster - 14-2-2007 at 18:04

Actually, thats the 'other' troll.

He has not been around for a while.

not_important - 14-2-2007 at 18:08

faithfreedom.com is a site set up in response to faithfreedon.org, an anti-muslim site. I've seen both brought up in online debates and flamewars, both seem to be ligit in the sense they exist simple to further the viewpoints of one group or another of people.

I don't think that the link was included as a trap, but rather an attempt to involve people in squabbles elsewhere and possibly to spread them to here

Sauron - 14-2-2007 at 18:45

A plague on both their houses. The point is, never click through unless you trust the senser implicitly or you are asking to enter cyber hell. A come-hither from a troll is particularly suspect.

It would be most foolish to comply.

Sauron - 14-2-2007 at 18:48

If that's the "other" troll, then he predates my arrival, as I never encountered him.

He didn't write like a low grade moron, though. Lunatic, yes, moron, no.

Ozone - 14-2-2007 at 21:46

I "lurked" around here for days before I was able to determine that this was not just another "mkn bmz n drgz" trainwreck. It took about 6 months (where I learned all about the "other troll") before I felt alright with injecting my opinions, but that's just me.

I agree that this mess is counter-productive and must be stopped, but I am at a loss to offer a solution that would not be, ultimately (in and of itself) counter-productive (be it by discouraging newcomers or frustrating the experienced).

I'm about to start calling the "war on terror" the war on trolls. The net result appears to be frighteningly similar

.

Maybe upgrading more established users with some form of, say, stun-gun might work, viz. when user A sees this stuff happening, there is an option to hault it (suspend user, 24 hr) until a moderator can pass official sanction. Unfortunately, we don't want to Taser the innocent just because they piss us (as individuals) off. That last part is the fly in the ointment.

Whatever is done it must be done for the good of the community and whoever is involved must be held to keep it so.

@Sauron, oh yes, very lunatic (advanced Treponema, methinks)!

One for all,

O3

12AX7 - 14-2-2007 at 23:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozone
Unfortunately, we don't want to Taser the innocent just because they piss us (as individuals) off. That last part is the fly in the ointment.

And that's one thing that's wrong with the attitude here: excessive cynicism where careful consideration is necessary in determining if a new poster is a troll.

Tim

YT2095 - 15-2-2007 at 01:28

the recent spate of trolling has been pretty self evident as to their intent, maybe 2 or 3 pages of spam but 6 of them is going a little too far

Nicodem - 15-2-2007 at 12:56

Quote:

Originally posted by 12AX7
And that's one thing that's wrong with the attitude here: excessive cynicism where careful consideration is necessary in determining if a new poster is a troll.

But if a poster is trolling then he is by definition a so called troll. What exactly is there to considerate?

NBK - 26-2-2007 at 01:05

Spammers, trolls, lames, and k3wLs are the bane of any board, and only a high hand can deal with them properly.

Of course, the higher your Google ranking, the more likely you are to be subjected to such problems, requiring sterner measures of control against them.

Fast Responses

MadHatter - 26-2-2007 at 22:27

I've noticed that trolls on science-related boards are dealt with straightaway. This is important
because these wankers consume disk space and bandwidth with their mindless posts. Send them
and their posts up the spout !

no heightened security please

chemrox - 3-3-2007 at 09:46

I don't think we should add layers of security. That's what government does and look where we are. I would think there's be a way to remove the bot's posts and cancel its account. Clearly the site is a target for someone.. a disgruntled ex-member who got pissed off at a few rude members? A random vandal? Whatever, deal with it and move on with minimal distubance, please.

YT2095 - 3-3-2007 at 10:14

we just need a few more staff to cover All Time-Zones, that`s all.

we had to do that over at SFN, and so far... So Good.

and don`t forget, you`ll always get your periods of School breaks and hollidays when these "attacks" are more frequent, and the staff presence is less.
it`s all part of the "game", sad but True non the less.

vulture - 3-3-2007 at 14:50

Quote:

we just need a few more staff to cover All Time-Zones, that`s all.

No, what we need is less quarrels between members who should know better, less people who think they know how to run this place and more people who adhere to simple, basic rules like using the edit function etc.

If you've ever seen the Bourne Identity, this line should be familiar:
"Why don't you book a conference room and talk him to death?"

[Edited on 3-3-2007 by vulture]

JohnWW - 1-9-2007 at 12:43

For the last 36 hours, I was unable to unable Sciencemadness at all. An hour or so ago, I tried accessing it through a proxy-server located in Spain, which I found on http://www.samair.ru/proxy/ , successfully!! (I find Spanish proxy servers to be usually very good). IT THEREFORE APPEARS THAT EITHER AN AGENCY OF THE NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT (PROBABLY GCSB, THE ELECTRONIC SECRET POLICE), OR MY ISP, XTRA, IS BLOCKING ACCESS TO SCIENCEMADNESS!! Have any other subscribers in New Zealand noticed this?

woelen - 1-9-2007 at 14:49

I have a similar problem with eBay, also for somewhere between 1 and 2 days. There apparently are some serious network problems in the USA. I cannot reach eBay anymore from NL and this is the same for all other people, who have KPN (one of the larger dutch telecom operators) as their ISP. It works through a proxy, albeit slowly (proxies usually are terribly slow).

The problem is DNS-related. I fixed the problem by using another DNS-server (normally I obtain this through DHCP, but for the time being, I use a fixed setting). You could give it a try as well.

Try 208.67.222.222 as DNS server. It might fix your problem (at least, it fixed mine with eBay).

joeflsts - 1-9-2007 at 17:05

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnWW
For the last 36 hours, I was unable to unable Sciencemadness at all. An hour or so ago, I tried accessing it through a proxy-server located in Spain, which I found on http://www.samair.ru/proxy/ , successfully!! (I find Spanish proxy servers to be usually very good). IT THEREFORE APPEARS THAT EITHER AN AGENCY OF THE NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT (PROBABLY GCSB, THE ELECTRONIC SECRET POLICE), OR MY ISP, XTRA, IS BLOCKING ACCESS TO SCIENCEMADNESS!! Have any other subscribers in New Zealand noticed this?

Have you contacted them to determine if your claim is true?

Joe

Xenoid - 1-9-2007 at 21:22

Quote:

Yes! I have been in a similar situation. My ISP is also XTRA!

Regards, Xenoid