Sciencemadness Discussion Board

How can i safely dispose of my lump of sodium?

3danimator2017 - 17-3-2017 at 19:45

Hi all,

LONG time lurker, love the forum and topics....now i have a question that requires your expertise.

We are moving flat in a few weeks and i don't want to take (my wife "convinced" me) my medium sized lump of sodium. Way too big to dump in water and i've had it so long that i don't even remember what weight i bought. It's about 10 cm in circumference and maybe 8 in thickness.

I would weight it but i'm worried about the crusty coating that's developed on it. It is of course, safely under paraffin.

My current decision is to get rid of small pieces every day...but there must be something easier, someone with very limited chem knowledge like me can do.

Thank you in advance for your help/suggestions.

Corrosive Joeseph - 17-3-2017 at 19:52

Maybe a member might take it off your hands for free if you could get it too them...............

Dumping in water just seems like SUCH a waste of what really is a not-so easy-to-make reagent.................


/CJ

JJay - 17-3-2017 at 21:27

You could call up a chemistry professor at a nearby college and explain your problem. One would probably take it off of your hands.

PirateDocBrown - 17-3-2017 at 21:42

If you can find a way to send it to me, I'll take it. :)

Where are you?

If you can't find a willing taker near you, add isopropanol slowly to your bottle. The 91% stuff from the drug store should be fine.

j_sum1 - 17-3-2017 at 21:46

If you absolutely had to dispose of it, you should cut it into smaller pieces (an inch maximum) and add the pieces one at a time to a container of ethanol (methylated spirits where I come from). Do this over the course of a few hours. It will take some time.

Make sure your first couple of pieces are quite small since your ethanol likely contains quite a bit of water. Once this has rected away you will have a better idea of how fast the reaction proceeds and you can take things from there.


The sodium ethoxide formed can probably be disposed of in the same manner as you would sodium hydroxide -- you can flush it down a drain with a large excess of water.

But keeping it in elemental form and giving it to someone who ca use it would be far preferable.
Maybe you could give your location so that someone local could take it off your hands.

Fidelmios - 17-3-2017 at 21:55

I'll totally take it off your hands too, if PirateDocBrown doesn't come through. I might annoy some members here but I would suggest buying some vials. and cutting it into some chunks and sell it on eBay.

NitratedKittens - 18-3-2017 at 06:45

Yeah just post your rough location (not a address) and I'm sure someone on here will take it off you hands.
The only thing about eBay is you might attract some unwanted attention from the authorities depending on where you live.

[Edited on 18-3-2017 by NitratedKittens]

tsathoggua1 - 18-3-2017 at 06:48

Hell, I'd take it off you too.

And FLUSH alkoxides? sounds like a big waste to me.

3danimator2017 - 18-3-2017 at 07:19

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm in holloway, north London. If anyone wants it, its yours. But its really not that huge a piece. Way too big to toss in one go in water. I guess its a nice amount.

Let me know . cheers

JJay - 18-3-2017 at 08:14

I have a video of a similarly-sized piece getting tossed into water around here somewhere, but I really don't recommend that; while it is pretty spectacular, it's pretty loud and is surely not good for the fish.

tsathoggua1 - 18-3-2017 at 09:07

I'm in the UK (NW) and would gladly take it off your hands.

Fidelmios - 18-3-2017 at 15:21

Not in UK, but I demand pics to prove you guys make the exchange lol@

3danimator2017 - 18-3-2017 at 21:48

tsathoggua1 , sent you a U2U

Booze - 20-3-2017 at 17:39

If you aren't going to sell it, cut it up into small pieces and THEN dump those in water one by one. I will buy it from you happily as well.

Lambda-Eyde - 20-3-2017 at 19:23

It's not the sodium that's the problem; it's your wife that you should dispose of. This can be safely done in H2O.

j_sum1 - 20-3-2017 at 19:32

I'm glad that's a joke.
Particularly when reading the last two posts together.

Booze - 21-3-2017 at 07:11

Maybe you should toss the whole thing in a river or something far away from a lot of people. I bet it would be spectacular!

MeshPL - 22-3-2017 at 22:33

That's not that bad idea. Just find suitably high bridge or a lake/pond next to a hill and throw it. But nevertheless better find somebody to take it.

Cody from YT recently dumped over a hundred grams of cesium into a lake on his ranch, but sodium will release more energy, as the same amount will have more atoms... IF you decide to do so, wear a face mask, and be sure you are far away, I'd say.

Tsjerk - 23-3-2017 at 00:55

I always find these alkali metals in water such a waste, if you want a bang with fire just make a pyrotechnical mix and keep your alkali for chemistry or display.

Pyrotechnics are also nicer to see.

Booze - 26-3-2017 at 13:05

Quote: Originally posted by MeshPL  
That's not that bad idea. Just find suitably high bridge or a lake/pond next to a hill and throw it. But nevertheless better find somebody to take it.

Cody from YT recently dumped over a hundred grams of cesium into a lake on his ranch, but sodium will release more energy, as the same amount will have more atoms... IF you decide to do so, wear a face mask, and be sure you are far away, I'd say.


I saw that. Doesn't sodium also get hot enough to ignite the hydrogen produced as well?

Booze - 26-3-2017 at 13:07

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
I always find these alkali metals in water such a waste, if you want a bang with fire just make a pyrotechnical mix and keep your alkali for chemistry or display.

Pyrotechnics are also nicer to see.


Sure, just mix silver nitrate and magnesium powder. As soon as it touches even a drop of water... BOOM!

Melgar - 26-3-2017 at 17:20

Potassium permanganate and aluminum powder was always fun. That was always my preferred way to ignite thermite: Al + Fe2O3 on the bottom layer, then Al + K2MnO4 on top of that, then just a little bit of K2MnO4 on top, by itself. Drizzle a little glycerol on that, and stand back and watch for smoke. It sure beats screwing around trying to light a magnesium ribbon, only to have just the exposed part burn.

DrP - 28-3-2017 at 03:32

Did you get rid of it? I'm in Kent, so near you, and will take it if your other offer for collection falls through. :-)

MrHomeScientist - 28-3-2017 at 08:17

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Maybe you should toss the whole thing in a river or something far away from a lot of people. I bet it would be spectacular!

Spectacular but still potentially dangerous. If dumped in a small enough body of water, it could raise the pH enough to kill fish and plants. If you can find a quarry lake or something that has no fish, that would be better.

JJay - 28-3-2017 at 08:24

It's definitely better to put it to good use than to throw it in water.

Booze - 28-3-2017 at 21:38

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Maybe you should toss the whole thing in a river or something far away from a lot of people. I bet it would be spectacular!

Spectacular but still potentially dangerous. If dumped in a small enough body of water, it could raise the pH enough to kill fish and plants. If you can find a quarry lake or something that has no fish, that would be better.

Ah, true. If the lump of sodium is big as OP says, it would probably be fine in a large body of water, or he could flush it down the toilet.

If you don't want to do either of those things, you could make potassium metal with it! I have always wanted to try mixing sodium metal with KCl and distill that mixture. Same thing for making cesium, but with cesium chloride and lithium metal. Cody's Lab has some good videos on this.

Booze - 28-3-2017 at 21:40

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
It's definitely better to put it to good use than to throw it in water.

But throwing it in water is more fun.

JJay - 28-3-2017 at 22:54

I don't think so, actually.

Flushing a chunk of sodium that size down the toilet would likely destroy the toilet.

yobbo II - 29-3-2017 at 06:39

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  

Ah, true. If the lump of sodium is big as OP says, it would probably be fine in a large body of water, or he could flush it down the toilet.


:D
HIC!

Booze - 29-3-2017 at 08:17

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I don't think so, actually.

Flushing a chunk of sodium that size down the toilet would likely destroy the toilet.


Almost certainly. I was kidding.

Lillica - 29-3-2017 at 13:39

OP, can you estimate the weight? I did a rough calculation, assuming it is roughly a sphere with a thickness-diameter of 8inchs, that would be around 7-9lbs. When you pick it up, does this feel about right? It's slightly confusing that in your post you list cm for the circumference and in for the thickness. Can you clarify?


Edit: Misread Units, disregard.

[Edited on 30-3-2017 by Lillica]

j_sum1 - 29-3-2017 at 14:36

I think you misread. 8cm in thickness.

Calculating out gives about 64 cm^3 or about 60g.

This is not a huge amount but plenty enough to break a toilet.

Estimating circumference is a bit strange and easy to get wrong. If the OP actually meant diameter then the lump would be closer to 200g. That's a handy amount for a hobbyist.

3danimator2017 - 29-3-2017 at 16:28

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I don't think so, actually.

Flushing a chunk of sodium that size down the toilet would likely destroy the toilet.



And the bathroom. On the plus side, the toilet drain would be clean as a whistle what with all that caustic soda goign through it

3danimator2017 - 29-3-2017 at 16:32

Guys, sorry for going AWOL from this thread, i was moving flat all week and trying to juggle that with work.

One member offered to pay for postage if i sent it through the mail...is that safe? I really would rather not get a knock on the door from the authorities.


So...its still available. And is now located in fulham if anyone wants it gratis.

Lastly, is there any peroxide danger with sodium? I know K is notorious for that, but im afraid to cut this chunk now as its looking a big gnarly despite being under paraffin. Thanks again guys. Much appreciated

3danimator2017 - 29-3-2017 at 16:34

Ill snap a picture today so you can see its size and state.

Thanks

Tsjerk - 30-3-2017 at 00:10

As long as the container is not broken the peroxide should be no more hazard than the sodium itself. Keeping it in one piece until someone picks it up sounds like the safest option and the most valuable compared to disposing through official ways or cleaning of toilets.

DrP - 30-3-2017 at 00:49

I can pick it up (or get my friend to who is visiting me next month from London to pick it up). pm me your address and I will arrange it if you are still keen to off load it. :-)

I only live in Kent and will certainly be in London at some point soon.

[Edited on 30-3-2017 by DrP]

NEMO-Chemistry - 1-4-2017 at 10:23

Quote: Originally posted by DrP  
I can pick it up (or get my friend to who is visiting me next month from London to pick it up). pm me your address and I will arrange it if you are still keen to off load it. :-)

I only live in Kent and will certainly be in London at some point soon.

[Edited on 30-3-2017 by DrP]
Is this the wife or Sodium? I got lost at the tossing off a bridge bit, depending which was being spoken about it might be a solution. Please please dont do that to sodium though :D.

And as pointed out, it might be spectacular to chuck the misses off a bridge, but you risk getting nearly as much time for that, as you would if you chucked the sodium off the bridge!

Fidelmios - 1-4-2017 at 12:29

I demand pics of the meet up and at least one six pack being exchanged! It's not often we get a group picture.

DrP - 4-4-2017 at 06:49

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  

[Edited on 30-3-2017 by DrP][/rquote]Is this the wife or Sodium?



ha ha ha! :D