Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Can someone recommend a good respirator?

Db33 - 23-1-2017 at 16:42

I would like to be more safe around corrosive and fuming chemicals and especially with things like sulfuric and other acids. So i am looking for a good respirator i can wear in the lab that will be good for a lab person. It should be able to handle all the common chemicals dealt with in the lab. But im also not wanting so spend hundreds of dollars so if someone could point me to a place where i can get a reasonably good deal on a respirator that can allow me to work with acids and other chems safely. Please let me know.

JJay - 23-1-2017 at 17:01

I don't think it will protect against carbon monoxide, but it does protect against bromine, benzene, hydrogen chloride, soybean oil smoke, nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide, chlorine, and lots of other nasties: http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Medium-Professional-Multi-Purp...

Corrosive Joeseph - 23-1-2017 at 19:19

My ideal mask would be a Moldex 9000, l have the 7000 model and l'm very happy with it..............

Here is a webpage with a picture of both. Shop around, they can be had for cheaper online.................

http://www.pksafety.com/mas/moldex-respirators-cartridges.ht...


/CJ

violet sin - 23-1-2017 at 19:50

Do not buy from home depo or any one close by unless you have money to burn or are in a hurry... I have to protect myself at work. Boss only buys disposable guys. I got the 3M 7502(?) With a few filters for 16$.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/262653817824?lpid=82&chn=ps...

I also bought the 6800 full face and have not used it yet. But it was comfortable when tried on.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/For-3M-6800-Gas-Mask-Full-Face-Facepie...

Just be carefull, those bulletproof handle anything cartridges. They are spendy and usually out of date or just about to go on ebay ( so Im told ). ask questions first or make them deal with the hastle of returning it.

I stumbled across several instances of people saying the common ebay expired cartridges were swiped from the trash n sold; after a big busines's yearly inventory!

[Edited on 24-1-2017 by violet sin]

Maroboduus - 23-1-2017 at 19:59

It'd be interesting to know if those 'handle anything' cartridges are activated carbon/soda lime/permanganate combinations like the old Haldane masks.

That would explain the limited shelf life.

(I know, trying to make your own cartridges would probably be pretty stupid, but it's still an interesting possibility to think about.)

EDIT: forgot the point of this post: Don't worry about sulfuric acid unless it's got oleum in it. Otherwise it's pretty safe up to fairly high temperatures like if you're trying to boil it down, and You don't need that with that low-priced rooto you found. ADDED EDIT: violet sin is right in below post. Didn't occur to me because I mostly use thermostatic heating surfaces or low watt density heating equipment so I'm unlikely to ever flash boil any sulfuric acid even if a flask breaks.


[Edited on 24-1-2017 by Maroboduus]

EDIT: Judging by the link corrosive Joseph posted below, that filter appears to be mostly activated carbon. Beware of using these for phosgene. They'll adsorb it, but it is then slowly released unchanged. Masks of this sort were found unreliable for phosgene back in the old days of WWI. Of course, those exposures were over long periods of time, but it would be best to check on that just in case I'm not spouting total BS here. (If I am, it's just from an overabundance of caution.)

[Edited on 24-1-2017 by Maroboduus]

[Edited on 24-1-2017 by Maroboduus]

Corrosive Joeseph - 23-1-2017 at 20:12

I'm using these filters at the moment.................

http://www.dustmasksdirect.co.uk/abek1-gas--vapour-filters-m...

Attachment: moldex-9000-series-filters-tds.pdf (271kB)
This file has been downloaded 420 times


/CJ

[edit] Attached tecnical data sheet

[Edited on 24-1-2017 by Corrosive Joeseph]

JJay - 23-1-2017 at 20:16

I personally would not buy a Chinese face mask that is branded 3M; it's almost certainly a counterfeit. You run the risk of having it seized, or even worse, purchasing a shoddy face mask.

violet sin - 23-1-2017 at 20:22

Pretty sure a nice sulfuric cloud inhaled from broken beaker over hotplate would be painfull at drain cleaner concentration. If its hot, corrosive and angry, protect what you don't want to lose. Poorly timed gasp or stray drop = ohhhhh NO.

And to be clear, the mask barely does much more than funnel clean air to your face n fit nicely. The cartridge does all the heavy lifting. So unless you are exposed to something that eats silicone no diff. it could be a 3$ or 300$ mask, cartridges equal, protection is roughly equal (save for reliability or mask to stay on head).

JJay - 23-1-2017 at 20:32

That 3M one I linked above is NIOSH certified at a 100% level for both organic vapor and particulate matter *and* it handles acid gas... the Chinese mask claims to protect against "95%" of painting vapor and doesn't come with any cartridges. After you buy two $16 cartridges and wait a month, you've saved six bucks and have an inferior product. I've used the Home Depot model in some corrosive and acrid environments that would have undoubtedly killed me (if I'd stuck around in them for long without a respirator) without even noticing any off smells.


[Edited on 24-1-2017 by JJay]

violet sin - 23-1-2017 at 20:59

I bought the same 3M at 44$ from an ace hardware. The thing rotted in a damp enviornment when left with other tools. Pretty sure your sillicone molded mask is the same as all three masks I mentioned with the 3M logo. Two bought over seas one here in Cali. So far only US one rotted.

And to be clear, I need a particulate filter, no fumes. Hanging and finishing drywall has me using the things daily for work, but only keeps fiberglass and gypsum out. They are ~2.50$/pair, pink and flimsy pancake looking things. I deffinitely put the mask through its paces when it's always hanging around my neck or on. Really good value, mask + couple filters (particulate)for 15-16$ total, shipping included.

The second mask I linked was more of a just incase kind of thing. To keep around the house. Never bought cartridges b/c of cost and forgot to follow up later.

I'm sure the better masks are made here or at least made to meet the standards to be sold here. There may be other things like speed of delivery and the like to enjoy from local sources.

------
I work on the coast.. Fort Bragg Ca and surrounding area

[Edited on 24-1-2017 by violet sin]

JJay - 23-1-2017 at 21:01

Weird. I definitely don't leave my tools in a damp environment....

I don't think there's anything wrong with Chinese goods, per se, but I happen to know that particular 3M mask is excellent, and I wouldn't trust anything that is branded 3M coming from China just to save a few bucks on a piece of protective equipment.


[Edited on 24-1-2017 by JJay]

Db33 - 23-1-2017 at 22:02

is there a difference between the more expensive ones than the ones violet sin recommends? Is one type disposable and one type non-disposable? Also how often do you change the cartridges?

violet sin - 24-1-2017 at 01:23

the disposable ones look like felt or paper with an elastic band. generic shape or nicely formed. they can be a couple cents a piece plane jane style, or 5$ per and come with a one way valve- deformable aluminum strip to shape to nose and a way better filter material,.. those only stop dust and bits, and quite variably at that. to the best of my knowledge there are no disposable vapor/gas fume - one piece versions.

the next step up for more than dust is the cartridge type filter. it is a silicone molded face piece that accepts disposable filters, also called cartridges by some. the mask could be like the little mouth and nose covered version I linked first-that will stop vapors and gasses if the filters are rated for it, but they leave the eyes and head exposed. or the mask could have some eye protection built in like the second pic I linked to.

the limit with these is filters. common hardware store filter cartridges protected things like painters solvent fume, acid vapor, aerosols, most of which could be linked to painting/varnish or power washing concrete or de-greasing spray for construction. then there are the more specific kind of filters that are used in industry instead of handy man projects. they cover more uncommon things, for longer and can be quite specific. like if all you do is spray clear coat indoors on finished cabinets or work at a plant spraying epoxy daily... you will not be using something found at home depot, I would think. good reliable filters are expensive, but don't skimp here if you are working with toxic crazy shit.

if you are doing stuff like that, be careful. for one, prob still don't want to do that inside unless you have a fume hood( and if you need both, wowza). for two, walking around in your yard with a mask on, or better yet, barely hiding around the back side of your house kinda lurking... just might get a call in.

Herr Haber - 24-1-2017 at 04:36

The mask, as long as it fits and is comfy is not something you should feel "too" concerned about.
I have an Israeli that I love and a Russian (post 2000) that is CRAP!

What's important is the filter you chose. Dust, solvents, acid vapors will all require different filters.

Sulaiman - 24-1-2017 at 05:09

for PPE to cover most SM activities
http://cyberneticzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/newtsuit...

Dr.Bob - 24-1-2017 at 05:24

If you really want a good one, MSA (Mine Safety appliances) makes a great line of them, I have one that is over 15 years old and still works great, uses 2 cartridges, can get acids, organics, etc. I have used it for many nasty tasks, like cleaning out rock wool in an attic, basements with other bad dusts, spray painting with oil based finishes, acids, etc.

Db33 - 24-1-2017 at 06:53

im mostly wanting it to deal with lets see...

evaporating solvents like acetone and other paint thinners.
dealing with fuming chems like hydrochloric and sulfuric acids.
Also dealing with toxic organics that can be deadly in small amounts like mercury salts, etc.

Corrosive Joeseph - 24-1-2017 at 09:55

Quote from my attachment further up thread -

'The filter 9730ABEK1Hg P3 have a maximum use of 50h against mercury'


/CJ

Deathunter88 - 24-1-2017 at 10:35

Quote: Originally posted by Db33  
im mostly wanting it to deal with lets see...

evaporating solvents like acetone and other paint thinners.
dealing with fuming chems like hydrochloric and sulfuric acids.
Also dealing with toxic organics that can be deadly in small amounts like mercury salts, etc.


You shouldn't be using a respirator when working with things that are "deadly in small amounts". The substance you are working with MUST have an odor detection threshold lower than the permissible exposure limit (PEL) and definitely be lower than the immediately dangerous to life and health (IDLH). Otherwise, you will not know when your respirator is saturated, leaking, or not forming a correct seal before you are exposed to a hazardous amount of the chemical. Fitting a respirator is also crucial to ensure it is protecting you adequately. ANY facial hair is a definite no-no when using a respirator as well. Finally, without proper storage of the respirator the cartridges will absorb moisture from the air and become useless. Therefore, the respirator must be enclosed in a Ziploc bag when it is not in use.

Corrosive Joeseph - 24-1-2017 at 19:03

More information on 3M filters ...................



Attachment: 3M Filters Help and Advice.pdf (530kB)
This file has been downloaded 8691 times


/CJ

Db33 - 26-1-2017 at 06:38

i wanted to also just add this in case anyone was worrying. It may be overkill but when i work with anything such as mercury salts, or even evaporating solvents (because i worry about carcinogens), the respirator would be worn WHILE also using a fume hood. Now like i said this is mostly probably unnecessary but for certain things i think its worth it.

JJay - 26-1-2017 at 07:14

There's definitely some debate over this, but I've read that it's not generally recommended to use a respirator as a matter of course while working in a fume hood. Of course, this assumes you're working with a fume hood that meets industry standards. I guess the thinking behind this is that the fume hood should protect you from whatever chemicals you are working with inside it, and if they're too dangerous for the hood, you shouldn't be working with them there and killing your lab partner, your coworkers, your neighbors, your colleagues, etc. Respirators are generally for use in ventilated areas like a garage.

There are some operations that pretty much require a respirator. These include things like cleaning glassware or shaking noxious substances in a separatory funnel. They are also pretty much absolutely required for cleaning up spills.

I definitely prefer to handle any mercury in a fume hood, but I've handled mercury salts on a regular lab bench once or twice. I could see how handling them could be tricky if they are finely powdered. Solutions are a little easier to handle without concern over inhaling fine particles, which could be problematic in a fume hood as well.

[Edited on 26-1-2017 by JJay]

tsathoggua1 - 26-1-2017 at 13:15

I've been using BB3000 ABEK1 filters, that are meant for (at least, what the guy at the place I bought them from, along with a new mask, since the old one I had got left in the lab one too many times after it was airing out, and over time, traces of HCl, SOCl2, SO2 and acid halides did rather a nasty number on the mask housing itself, perishing the rubber to something that ended up turning to dust when handled the next time. [I wasn't IN there at the time, it was just long term low level exposure], bought another mask to fit the other kind of cartridges which were just for organic vapours, since the place didn't stock other kinds, and then found out I could get no more replacement supplies for that, since it was going out of stock, out of manufacture or some other such reason making them unable to be obtained, kept the new mask, as I still had the fresh canister in it, and two sealed spares but it'll only get used now for relatively harmless things, such as aliphatics, n-hexane excluded and organics that aren't toxic as such, but which I find intensely disagreeable in terms of odour. )

So got a new one, again, this time with these BB3000 ABEK1 multi-purpose filters.
They are stated to resist organic vapours, acid gases and basic gases (basic as in that which deprotonates, rather than 'primitive' or low-toxicity general purpose; E.g NH3, alkylamines, caustic dusts and particulates, with an additional disposable particulate smog-filter pad that goes over the top of the canister, or possibly under it, I'd have to re-read the instructions on fitting them, since as of yet I haven't had to do anything in a situation that they would benefit me.

It seems however, as though despite being rated for organics, when things are on the borderline, and also, whilst not themselves being highly acidic, such as acyl or alkyl haldes (possessed of a C-C bond) that they struggle quite a bit.

I could still smell, albeit faintly, with new cartridges freshly unsealed and screwed in properly, the rank stench of propionyl chloride for example, and the far more pleasant smell off benzoyl chloride, the mask was definitely providing some protection, but the filthy stink of sweaty goat armpit was nevertheless detectable. And alkyl halides (isopropyl chloride didn't seem to be well scrubbed. I could not detect the latter via odour threshold but experienced some temporary perioral anaesthesia for some hours afterwards)

Talking about being clean shaven, presumably thats a lot more important than hair of the head, where only the mask's head-cradle piece sits? because otherwise I have very long hair.

CobaltChloride - 10-3-2018 at 12:53

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3M-Respirator-6200-6006-reno... formaldehyde-gas-masks-protective-masks-painted-a-variety-of-gases/32602889743.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10151_10065_10344_ 10068_10342_10343_10340_10341_10084_10083_10618_10304_10307_10301_5711211_10313_10059_10534_100031_10103_10627_10626_10624_10623_10622_5711315_10621_5 722412_10620,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=c7ee43e9-93fd-4283-b6cb-c3489bacfc2b-4&algo_pvid=c7ee43e9-93fd-4283-b6cb-c3489bacfc2b&a mp;priceBeautifyAB=0

I use this exact mask from this exact seller. I've put my nose near to SO2 solution (just handling this solution in a decently ventilated balcony makes you cough terribly after just one transient whiff), concentrated ammonia solution, acetone and ethyl acetate without smelling anything at all. I also put my nose exactly above some slightly wet Ca(OCl)2 without detecting any chlorine (this stuff makes enough chlorine that your eyes start watering while handling it).

aga - 10-3-2018 at 14:21

Go to the nearest store that has respirators and ask them.

No way i'd put my ass on the line and recommend one to you, as you might try to sue my ass if it did not work.

If i actually made and sold respirators, mine would be the #1 choice, as i'd have Product Liability Insurance.