Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Protein powder half-life after mixed with water

Protein powder half-life after mixed with water

AdamAlden - 5-9-2016 at 06:53

Protein powder typically comes in two forms.
-Powder form
-Premixed form

The premixed protein drinks are sold on the shelves at the store and cost considerably more than powdered protein. They don't need to be refrigerated until they are opened. They are very easy to acquire and consume as needed.

Powdered protein is also stored refrigerated where it's sold. There is typically no information about how long it can be stored in a refrigerator after it has been mixed with water. It's very easy to acquire but it's a pain in the ass to open the container, scoop some out, and thoroughly mix out all of the clumps.

Typically people overlook how much time and thought are wasted preparing the powdered protein for consumption. It never occurred to me that I might be able to store it in a refrigerator after mixing.

I'm planning to run some experiments on how long it lasts in the fridge with the main goal being to discover a way to increase the half-life of a mixed protein shake through the use of refrigeration.

I plan to try using different volumes of water to powder ratios in an attempt to slow bacterial growth and possibly add a preservative to enhance the conditions against bacteria.

Tsjerk - 5-9-2016 at 07:13

Quote:

They don't need to be refrigerated until they are opened.

This means they were pasteurized.

Quote:

Powdered protein is also stored refrigerated where it's sold. There is typically no information about how long it can be stored in a refrigerator after it has been mixed with water.

This is because as long the powder is dry, it does not expire. You don't even have to store it at 4 degrees. The expiration after adding water depends on how clean you work. Working clean enough not to letting it expire withing days is hard*.

Quote:

I'm planning to run some experiments on how long it lasts in the fridge with the main goal being to discover a way to increase the half-life of a mixed protein shake through the use of refrigeration.

I guess this is going to be comparable with non-pasteurized milk, which means not more than a couple of days.

If you want to do stuff like this look into sterile working conditions; these conditions are not easy to reach and need training to preform (this is why these companies can ask more money for their pre-mixed drinks).

Edit:*I forgot about how clean (microbes) the powder itself is, this is crucial for this experiment.

[Edited on 5-9-2016 by Tsjerk]

Amos - 5-9-2016 at 08:08

It's a stretch to classify this as chemistry. Not really sure what this contributes to the forum, either.

wg48 - 5-9-2016 at 08:23

I good guide would be how long you can keep made up baby formula and how to make it up.

Its a long time since I had to worry about that. But from memory two days in a fridge but we made it each day and still had problems with it going off if it was carried around unchilled for part of the day.

zed - 16-9-2016 at 15:23

Well, you could "Can" your solutions in Mason jars. Or, freeze them like ice creams.

Therein, they might last for a very long time.

I am reminded of preservative tragedy a few years back. Wherein a Saline Solution ingestion experiment, killed a freshman biology student.

A hapless lab assistant provided a pre-packaged commercial solution, for the experiment. The student imbibed a fair volume of it. And then, everyone watched helplessly, while the young woman, sickened and died.

The problem? Laziness.

That expensive, commercially produced Saline Solution, had tiny percentage of a preservative in it. If memory serves me, it was Hydrazine.

PS. Nope! I was wrong. The solution was preserved with Sodium Azide. Might have been wrong about freshmanism too.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2313259

[Edited on 16-9-2016 by zed]

[Edited on 16-9-2016 by zed]

AdamAlden - 16-9-2016 at 17:57

Quote: Originally posted by Amos

It's a stretch to classify this as chemistry. Not really sure what this contributes to the forum, either.

I don't see how this can be considered chemistry either but I feel sciencey about it so here I am.

About 2 days after I started this thread after having this idea I mixed some sugar free protein powder in a water bottle and then added half of the solution into a separate water bottle.

I wrapped one in tin foil.

It has been over a week since I mixed the protein and I cannot detect any odors. It smells exactly like it did when I mixed it.

Some solids did settle to the bottom and were shaken back into the mixture before smelling.

I have no idea if there is the same amount of protein as when I started but I think that since there is no odor and the solids went back into a mixture that its still consumable but I have my doubts.

The solids that settled to the bottom could be peptides. If so then everything that is happening is natural which might mean that it's possible to mix a large amount of sugar free protein powder and leave it in the fridge for extended periods of time.

[Edited on 17-9-2016 by AdamAlden]

DieForelle - 17-9-2016 at 14:24

I agree with Amos about this thread, but I am compelled to keep Adam from killing himself by reminding (?) him that a protein solution at room temperature could easily become contaminated with botulism after a few days. Smell IS NOT a valid way to determine product safety!
Basically, you just don't have the technology at home to produce these kind of shelf-stable protein solutions. I think the "canning authorities" still consider home pressure canning of plain old milk to be permissible...and though I suppose it would work for say, a whey protein solution, I think the texture or taste of the product would be seriously altered. I suspect the various liquid proteins like 'muscle milk' 'ensure' etc. use advanced aseptic packaging techniques, that, again you can't do at home.

[Edited on 17-9-2016 by DieForelle]

zed - 17-9-2016 at 16:50

Refrigerated or frozen things, I trust...mostly.

Home Canned things, I'm more skeptical. Though things with lots of sugar or vinegar, are probably OK.

And, I trust my nose, to tell me when things are "off".

Canning protein suspensions. You have to try it to find out. Protein hydrolysis could take place. Might effect something. Dunno.

[Edited on 18-9-2016 by zed]

Velzee - 17-9-2016 at 20:57

This brings to mind a story of a woman who wanted to prepare canned carrots for dinner. They were homemade(as she made them this same way for 44 years), and slightly past their usual expiration date, so she sniffed them, and smell nothing odd about it, so she decided to dip the tip of her pinky in the liquid and taste it. It tasted funky to her, so she threw out the can.

48 hours later, she began to lose feeling in her toes and fingers, and was having trouble breathing. She called 911, but when she made it to the hospital, she couldn't move most of her body and was having extreme difficulty breathing.

She survived, thankfully, but it turned out the carrots came up positive for botulism causing bacteria, and she certainly was lucky, as she was very near death.

It took her over six months to recover.

One single taste. Makes you think.

Found it(though I remember watching a documentary including the story in it): http://accesswdun.com/article/2004/10/149355

[Edited on 9/18/2016 by Velzee]

AdamAlden - 24-9-2016 at 13:06

Quote: Originally posted by Velzee

She survived, thankfully, but it turned out the carrots came up positive for botulism causing bacteria, and she certainly was lucky, as she was very near death.

This has been lingering in the back of my mind. I haven't tried drinking it just smelling it and observing. What are the chances of botulism in sugar free protein powder anyways? If comparing sugar free protein powder to carrots I think there is a big difference. Honestly the only way it would get into the powder is if I some how got it on my hands which then contacted the powder and I have doubts that botulism is in tap water. Milk processing plants are typically held to high standards and the process of converting milk into dry whey protein is also held to high standards especially for products sold in major corporation super markets.

It has been two weeks since the powder was mixed with regular tap water. The bottle wrapped in aluminum foil has lost about 20% of its volume (it has not been opened for one week). The regular water bottle shows signs of shrinkage as well so it seems that something is consuming oxygen.

In my next experiment I will be removing as much air from the bottles as possible before sealing and placing in the refrigerator. During this experiment I will taste the protein periodically and removing as much air as possible again.

AdamAlden - 24-9-2016 at 13:18

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk

If you want to do stuff like this look into sterile working conditions; these conditions are not easy to reach and need training to preform (this is why these companies can ask more money for their pre-mixed drinks).

Edit:*I forgot about how clean (microbes) the powder itself is, this is crucial for this experiment.

I agree with you. I cant even open a bread bag without mold spores getting in. If I had the money I would be able to build a clean room. It's very difficult to do it without money I have already made designs for one as I typically dislike the way most people live and prefer to live in a clean environment. I could get into this topic but it's not really important to since this is not an experiment to find a way to store mixed protein powder for years at a time its purpose is to find a way to mix a few days to a weeks worth of protein powder for storage in the refrigerator.

Edit: And drink from the bottle multiple times a day. Water fall it or pour it in a cup.

It might be possible to keep the bottle air free even when removing the drink from the bottle.

[Edited on 24-9-2016 by AdamAlden]

Maroboduus - 24-9-2016 at 14:18

This is more like Russian roulette than an experiment. Storing it for a week or two in the fridge and drinking it proves little. It could work 100 times and fail with devastating effects on the 101st.

I actually think it'll probably be okay if you use sterilized bottles and clean, chlorinated water, but I don't KNOW. I do drink milk and juices that are that old sometimes, but those are things where empirical experience has shown us that the spoilage is of a nature that we can detect. Just how do you know when a protein powder solution is over the hill?

An acidic medium will do a lot to protect against Botulism, But who the hell knows what else might be fostered by acidified protein power solutions?

Is it REALLY that much trouble to,"open the container, scoop some out, and thoroughly mix out all the lumps." ?
Sounds to me like the mixing is the only real difficulty here. How about buying an immersion blender? Easy to clean, and works in any reasonably wide container. By your signature you appear to be a lifter. If so then you're already spending considerable time on your physique, and ought to be willing to put in a few minutes a day to mix those protein drinks.

AdamAlden - 25-9-2016 at 15:48

Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus

Is it REALLY that much trouble to,"open the container, scoop some out, and thoroughly mix out all the lumps." ?
Sounds to me like the mixing is the only real difficulty here. How about buying an immersion blender? Easy to clean, and works in any reasonably wide container. By your signature you appear to be a lifter. If so then you're already spending considerable time on your physique, and ought to be willing to put in a few minutes a day to mix those protein drinks.

Yes it really is an issue. People who drink protein shakes have to open the container and put their hand inside multiple times a day. Each time they expose the protein powder in the container to fresh oxygen and contaminated air. Im looking for a simple way reduce the amount of times a protein powder container has to be opened and the amount of time it take to measure out a dose of protein shake.

Currently the planned experiment will simply involve a 2 liter bottle and tap water. After the protein powder has been mixed it will be place in the fridge in the 2 litter bottle until the contents have been consumed. Each time protein shake is removed from the bottle the air will be removed before sealing the bottle for storage in the fridge again.

Honestly after my last experiment I think this will be safe for about three days. If I do end up getting the botulism that should be a fun experiment in itself.

Edit: Maybe it would be better to simply package the protein in plastic bags but then again maybe not.

[Edited on 25-9-2016 by AdamAlden]

AdamAlden - 25-9-2016 at 16:16

I started the experiment. 7 scoops of protein powder in a rinsed out 2 liter filled it up with water and shook it up. Poured some out. Stuck it in the fridge.

RogueRose - 26-9-2016 at 10:52

Protein powder can easily dissolve in cold water with simple stirring or shaking it just depends upon the quality of the powder. Don't be fooled by price = quality. I used to work at a gym and made shakes all the time and drank them at home many times a day for years.

Get a blender or a protein shake mixer/shaker - they are available and inexpensive.

Ever let a blender of protein mix sit for 3-7 days at room temp? Maybe one of the most foul smells ever.

Also , premixing will require an emulsifier to keep mixed or it will settle and e even tougher to re-mix. I'd stay away from this.

Get a blender or mixer.

mayko - 26-9-2016 at 11:32

Quote: Originally posted by AdamAlden

Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus

What about a screw-type dispenser, as you might see in a powder-addition funnel? You could keep the powder closed up in a hopper and then dial out as much as you need.

Maroboduus - 26-9-2016 at 16:24

I've always wanted one of those for portion-wise addition of powders to reactions in inert, or corrosive atmospheres. The only cheap ones I ever see for sale are missing the internal screw thingy.
But I've got about a dozen other things I ought to be getting first anyway. And that's just glassware.

Ozone - 26-9-2016 at 19:45

Unless I've misunderstood your pictures, the bottle has generated gas. As such, fermentation is occurring, and that may be a disaster. One of the things you look for in a Clostridial fermentation is gas production. Swollen cans are to be avoided, literally, like the plague.

In any case, I'll bet you have a putrifactive fermentation that will be flat out awful if opened (if you can't smell it through the bottle). I'd recommend removing it to the trash, outside...now. Kill it with fire.

O3

AdamAlden - 15-10-2016 at 17:43

my last post was on 25-9-2016 at 16:16... I drank the protein of the next 3 days except for 500ml. I removed all of the air and it has been sitting there ever since. I just took it out and downed it.

So that is roughly 20 days storage after mixed while drinking from container without water falling it. It smelt fine and actually tasted better than I remembered. It was thicker and reminded me of tapioca pudding.

uploading pictures shortly.

AdamAlden - 15-10-2016 at 19:36

In my first experiment I made a dilute solution and it consumed the oxygen inside of the container. I came to this conclusion because the bottle shrank by 20%.

In the latest experiment I mixed the protein according to the directions which was about 7 scoops for a 2 liter bottle. I always removed the air inside when sealing to bottle. The idea is to prevent the protein mix from absorbing oxygen by not allowing it to have any. The removal of the air from the container also creates an environment of less than atmospheric pressure which may also have a positive effect on the protein mix because I did not notice any oxygen absorption this time, however, this might be caused by the proper amount of protein powder to water ratio.

AdamAlden - 18-10-2016 at 19:09

Two days later and I'm perfectly fine. The protein powder was still edible after being mixed with water and stored in the fridge for 20 days.

It is likely that this experiment was successful only because the optimal conditions were available.

a. my house gets processed chlorinated water (not well water)
b. the protein I have is sugar free (microbius organisms love sugar)

The water I have is highly chlorinated. When left in a bottle for 24 hours the air inside smells like the rapid waters amusement park.

Finally to end this post... it is unknown whether the protein powder solution degraded in anyway. It's possible that it may have lost some nutritional value.

EDIT: Now that I have conducted this experiment under my conditions I think that it will be possible to make a large batch of protein powder drinks and fill regular sized water bottles as long as they are kept in the fridge.

[Edited on 19-10-2016 by AdamAlden]

AdamAlden - 10-7-2017 at 07:13

I recently ran another experiment after trying this product called Advant EDGE "pure milk protein shake" by Abbott laboratories. It was so good I had to rty to make my own and this time I did it about 75% less paranoid.

The protein once mixed with water lasts for quite a while as long as it's kept in the fridge with or without air in the container or an air tight seal (I did focus on keeping the container sterile).

This time I just used a one gallon jug of water *without a screw cap just the regular push on cap. Left the jug unopened in the fridge over night.

I poured the water out into a pan and boiled in some tapioca pudding mix

then poured about half of the remaining water out of the jug into another jug

then poured the tapioca into the main jug

then added 6 scoops of protein powder and shook the hell out of it for a while

then added water from the other jug until it was full and shook some more.

I have been drinking from this a few times a day and haven't noticed anything odd. The results were exactly the same as from the two liter bottle experiment. The taste is not even close to as good as the Abbott labs drink but I never added any flavoring like vanilla extract.

Experiment is success as long as you start drinking it as soon as you pour it. The tapioca adds 5 grams of carbs per serving so it is more "nutritional" but it doesn't taste like tapioca pudding.