Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Chemomix - The chemistry kitchen robot

Chemomix - The chemistry kitchen robot

ficolas - 31-8-2016 at 09:51

You heard it right! the chemomix! ̶A̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶p̶i̶d̶ ̶n̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶p̶i̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶j̶e̶c̶t̶
Not to be confused with a thermomix.

-Tired of repetitive reactions?
+No, chemistry is fun, I do it because I like it.
-Then let me show you... the cheminator!!
-So, cooks (the legal ones) have smart ovens and kitchen robots, but the chemistry-hobbist doesnt have robots that facilitate his job?
+Exactly, but thats b...
-Thats why I present you, the cheminator! With this invention you will be able to perform simple reactions that just need simple steps like aditions,
heating to certain temperatures, or stirring, automatically! kinda.

Ok, enought of that, now seriously.
So my main hobbies are chemistry, programming, and im learning about electronics, so why not combining all three into an stupid project? (with an even stupider name)

My plans for this project, are basically an arduino bluetooth controlled modular chemistry reactor. With a phone app that ill make, I could program the arduino so that it would know what to do. For example, with a heating module and a probe, I would be able to mantain a certain temperature, for something like a distillation. Another module I thought of would be an addition funnel, with a liquid level sensor to control the amount of liquid to add, that could also be programmed with the phone.

I currently only have the magnetic stirrer module "finished", not really because the arduino part itself isnt finished (I still need some wirey things that I have ordered, like the bluetooth thingie for the arduino, decoupling capacitors and transistors), but I wanted to know your opinion on this project, since im not exactly sure if I will continue with it, or just turn my magnetic stirrer into a normal one, with its potentiometer and stuff.
So please tell me your opinion on the usefullnes and coolness of this project

because that will make me continue with it or not.

aga - 31-8-2016 at 11:24

It's very cool really, and an example of IoT in action.

Definitely worth pursuing, if only for the practice in building/programming custom-made devices, and getting them to do what you want.

Currently i'm working on a system to easily integrate loads of devices into any system you would care to create.

The biggie is the fact that (currently) each 'system' of software/hardware has to built from the ground up, which makes the overall task much harder than it needs to be.

A bit like old-style glassware which needed custom-bored cork bungs made to fit them together, versus modern plug-n-play quickfit glass.

[Edited on 31-8-2016 by aga]

ficolas - 31-8-2016 at 14:07

loT?
I would like to see something about your system, it sounds cool and maybe I can take some ideas on the approach if possible

If I didnt do this I had other ideas to do with the arduino, but none of them sounded as cool to me as this one

[Edited on 31-8-2016 by ficolas]

Melgar - 31-8-2016 at 14:32

it would be cool to set the temperature as a function of time, so that it could be gradually heated to drive the reaction forward while keeping the reaction speed at a steady state. You could also put an electric eye and and infrared LED on opposite sides of a clamp that would go around the neck of your boiling flask. If the electric eye starts noticing a sudden uptick in light intensity fluctuating through the glass, assume the bubbles are reaching the neck, and lower the temperature for heating. A second electric eye higher up on the neck could either quench your reaction, or pour water onto the flask and hotplate. Or maybe just lift it a bit off the hotplate and sound an alarm. The most useful ones would monitor a long-running reaction for signs that either it's finished or something has gone wrong. Unless of course, you designed a glassware-washing robot that could also clean silver nitrate stains off of porcelain. Hell, I haven't even met a human who can do the last one.

I personally enjoy doing quick-running reactions, and actually like periodically monitoring the progress of the slow ones too. I remember getting up every morning to see slightly less of the Canadian nickel in the bottle of my acid bottle, and a greener color to the solution. The ones that could use the most electronic logic are the ones that need constant monitoring in some capacity. Though, if you can build a glassware-cleaning robot, that would obviously be better.

CaptainPike - 31-8-2016 at 14:58

this is an idea I had a long time ago. And I guess I'm reinventing the wheel here but (plus I'm a hundred years old)

I bought this really cool A/D board for the PC (ISA buss) which also has some digital I/O lines. Then I stumbled upon a breakout box – a terminal block and cable [50 pin ribbon cable]
so now I've got Opto isolated digital I/O lines and several AD channels! All this brought out to a nice easy-to-interface-to terminal block. I'm writing some code in C to initialize and access this board. I'll just poll at first, but there're plenty of interrupt service request lines on the PC bus I can use.

so I guess I'm basically creating that little mini computer chem rocks was talking about above. There are lots of those as well. I had specked out a very similar one, for a different project. But the idea of using your phone is good – everyone has one.

I wish I could find some little actuators or servos which would open and close, like, T-bore's, and addition funnel's, kind of thing. I actually did find some on Ali Baba, but not sure they've got enough torque, plus ideally, one wants to know that the action has been completed (it's been my experience).

It might be a way of bringing the laboratory to people with disabilities!! Maybe lock them in an explosion proof room, just to keep everyone else safe, mu ha ha!

Cool stuff though, chemistry rocks! [Trademark R]

DT 2811 functional block diagram.jpg - 37kB

Below is just a picture of the PC card that I bought for cheap off eBay. The board retail for like $900 back in 1980
I have a heckuva time with images on this bulletin board!
But I can bring RTD's, thermistors, etc. right in to the analog I/O with just hardly any fussing about! WHEEEEE!

file]52887[/file]

Attachment: phpI84O9y (15kB)
This file has been downloaded 845 times

[Edited on 31-8-2016 by CaptainPike]

ficolas - 31-8-2016 at 16:05

A servo motor probably has enough torque to turn an addition funnel I think.
I initially thought about using an addition funnel with some sort of liquid sensor to meassure the ammount of solution that has been dispensed (like a float sensor, or an even fancier one, an ultrasonic distance meter. Its amazing how we can get something hat sounds as fancy as "ultrasonic distance meter" for just 3€) and a servo motor for turning the valve.

I have ordered servo motors, however what I dont have yet is glassware (I ordered some, no adition funnels yet thought)

About your board, there is quite a lot I dont understand, im such a beginner in electronics still.

I currently have no idea about how im going to make the arduino and android code. The easiest way to do it would be to make a quick API, and small amount of code for the chemical reaction. However that is the non user friendly (even thought the only user its gonna be myself) and not as cool way, so I need to figure a better way to do it. However there is just so much into it! So many variables that may need to be interacted with in a way or another depending on how the reaction will be, and what is needed for the chemomix thingie to do!

Melgar - 1-9-2016 at 01:27

If you're a quadriplegic and have an interest in chemistry, perhaps it would be best to stick to theoretical chemistry. I can only imagine what it'd be like to accidentally mix hydrochloric acid and benzyl alcohol, or acetone and sulfuryl chloride, and then be stuck in the room watching the vapors billow out of your Erlenmeyer. You hit the switch on your motorized chair to make a quick escape. To your horror, nothing happens. You look down at the switch and see that the exposed metal is all brown and crusted with dirty blueish-gray crystals. All your work with acid vapors has caused the metal in the switch contact to corrode to the point where it can't make an electrical connection anymore, and somehow you were too preoccupied to notice. The tears are streaming out of your eyes now, and you can't breathe; every time you open your mouth to take a breath, a cloud of foul, lachrimatory vapors enters it and you immediately cough it out. You're getting dizzy now, and your eyes are totally unusable. You open your mouth to scream. You can't.

Sulaiman - 1-9-2016 at 05:40

whilst researching phosphoric acid I came across a YouTube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Mx5hVjUKc
which shows the use of some commercially available system similar to ideas above,
it would be worth checking what is available, at what cost, what interfaces and protocols are 'open source' etc.
before a new integration system is invented and dies.

First things to automate; alarms and fire extinguishers

Heavy Walter - 1-9-2016 at 10:14

Well... not for the amateur but the industry already has several kind of robots in the lab.
A small one (WorkBench from Agilent), transfer liquids, mixes, heat/cool and shakes.
Mostly used for derivatizations and standard dilutions.

NEMO-Chemistry - 3-9-2016 at 07:36

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar

If you're a quadriplegic and have an interest in chemistry, perhaps it would be best to stick to theoretical chemistry. I can only imagine what it'd be like to accidentally mix hydrochloric acid and benzyl alcohol, or acetone and sulfuryl chloride, and then be stuck in the room watching the vapors billow out of your Erlenmeyer. You hit the switch on your motorized chair to make a quick escape. To your horror, nothing happens. You look down at the switch and see that the exposed metal is all brown and crusted with dirty blueish-gray crystals. All your work with acid vapors has caused the metal in the switch contact to corrode to the point where it can't make an electrical connection anymore, and somehow you were too preoccupied to notice. The tears are streaming out of your eyes now, and you can't breathe; every time you open your mouth to take a breath, a cloud of foul, lachrimatory vapors enters it and you immediately cough it out. You're getting dizzy now, and your eyes are totally unusable. You open your mouth to scream. You can't.

Sorry i kind of found that offensive, i am sure it wasnt meant that way but it was OTT.

For a start anyone working with that kind of material should have a mask on standby, generally people with disabilities are way more organised and used to thinking things through before doing, this is just part of normal life for them.

I dont think ANYONE except dick heads and the totally insane should be excluded from anything just because they have more difficulties to overcome.

The other problem that hit me with what you said is, surely if you know someone with a disability who wants to do stuff like chemistry, you would make an offer of help?

I know it was meant more light hearted but it kind of made me think, science is supposed to be accessible to everyone. Its down to us to try and help that.

I stand by the lunatic and dick head exclusion though, cooks and kewls i kind of leave for Darwin.

NEMO-Chemistry - 3-9-2016 at 09:34

^^^ God i can be a miserable bastard at times. Forget what i said, no idea what i had the hump about really

aga - 3-9-2016 at 12:59

The main objective of the thing i'm working on (apart from making money) is to enable computing/electronics/engineering-disabled people create real-world machines that actually do things, controlled by whatever device/interface, from anywhere.

e.g.

Dr Hawking Is trying to make a kilo of Plutonium Nitrate, just for fun.

He's at home in his kitchen, in the UK.

The physical 'lab' is a remote-controlled robotic setup in a sealed box, in a sealed room, in a high security complex half a mile under a mountain in the USA.

Hopefully he has a few friends online at the time, just in case ...

NEMO-Chemistry - 4-9-2016 at 01:59

Quote: Originally posted by aga

The main objective of the thing i'm working on (apart from making money) is to enable computing/electronics/engineering-disabled people create real-world machines that actually do things, controlled by whatever device/interface, from anywhere.

e.g.

Dr Hawking Is trying to make a kilo of Plutonium Nitrate, just for fun.

He's at home in his kitchen, in the UK.

The physical 'lab' is a remote-controlled robotic setup in a sealed box, in a sealed room, in a high security complex half a mile under a mountain in the USA.

Hopefully he has a few friends online at the time, just in case ...

Prof Hawking........I am not so sure he would be a good candidate for this. everything i have read credits him with a Big Bang!

Melgar - 30-9-2016 at 11:08

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

^^^ God i can be a miserable bastard at times. Forget what i said, no idea what i had the hump about really

If it makes you feel any better, that was supposed to be from the perspective of myself, or a typical forum member here, if they happened to become paralyzed, rather than an actual quadriplegic. I can totally imagine something like that happening to me, assuming I had the misfortune of becoming paralyzed.