Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Kleen-Out Drain Opener 93% H2So4 7% H20?

lovelyduvet - 26-7-2016 at 09:53

I just found this for $5 a quart. I was under the impression it was hard to find OTC concentrated sulfuric acid products without buffers. I thought I had done my homework but no one has been talking about this.



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[Edited on 26-7-2016 by lovelyduvet]

Praxichys - 26-7-2016 at 10:41

I find that most contaminants are easy to deal with. I usually add about 5% by volume of 29% H2O2 to the acid and then bring it to a boil. The boiling concentrates it a bit further but also completely annihilates any organic matter present that gives it any color. You can buy black/pink drain cleaner acid and go to water-white conc. sulfuric in about an hour. I think most of the buffered stuff has organic sulfonates in it which are rapidly destroyed.

Cryolite. - 26-7-2016 at 12:31

I actually purchase this brand of drain cleaner. As far as I can tell, it's pretty much pure 93% sulfuric acid: it has a water white color, no discernible smell when cold, and at most trace iron contamination (ferrocyanide test)

Venom666 - 12-8-2016 at 18:39

Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys  
I find that most contaminants are easy to deal with. I usually add about 5% by volume of 29% H2O2 to the acid and then bring it to a boil. The boiling concentrates it a bit further but also completely annihilates any organic matter present that gives it any color. You can buy black/pink drain cleaner acid and go to water-white conc. sulfuric in about an hour. I think most of the buffered stuff has organic sulfonates in it which are rapidly destroyed.


Doesn't this create a quantity of Piranha solution (H2SO5)?
If so, would that not create a dangerous possibility of unstable compounds when using this new acid/oxidant in chemical reactions? I'm pretty new to this, so forgive me if it's a stupid question.

Thanks

pepe - 12-8-2016 at 23:30

I only have experience with Kleen-Out's crystal drain opener. Says its 100% lye crystals and if I remember correctly the MSDS stated it was 100% NaOH. Ill keep an eye out about their sulfuric acid based one.

Venom666 - 13-8-2016 at 01:16

Yes, obviously the results would be different if you were to add Hydrogen Peroxide to Lye.

I've never looked into that chemical reaction -- What interests me is using high concentration H2S04 from a sub-par source such as drain cleaners and purifying them using the previously mentioned method. Although I've already tried it, I'd like to know why I managed to do so without blowing off any limbs or shredding my eyeballs, and almost more importantly, what significant difference it would make to use this resulting substance in other reactions. I really don't feel like making explosives by accident!
Thanks!

pepe - 13-8-2016 at 20:50

Quote: Originally posted by Venom666  
Yes, obviously the results would be different if you were to add Hydrogen Peroxide to Lye.

I've never looked into that chemical reaction -- What interests me is using high concentration H2S04 from a sub-par source such as drain cleaners and purifying them using the previously mentioned method. Although I've already tried it, I'd like to know why I managed to do so without blowing off any limbs or shredding my eyeballs, and almost more importantly, what significant difference it would make to use this resulting substance in other reactions. I really don't feel like making explosives by accident!
Thanks!


What do you mean by a "sub-par source"? Also if you have actually tried an experiment that you seem to think is so dangerous then why would you be surprised that you didn't blow yourself up? You should really know what is going to happen and how and why and when and all those other things before you even think about attempting anything.

AngelEyes - 15-8-2016 at 06:06

I think the colour and / or organic contaminants can be removed by passing the acid through activated charcoal. Not sure where I read this though (could have been SM) so I can't provide a source...but worth a punt if you need clean(er) acid.

Angel.

bheilmannd - 8-9-2017 at 08:07

A description of this product can be found on the betterbilt chemicals website:

Kleen Out - Brochure Link

Kleen Out should only be used by contracotrs or professional DIY'ers Kleen Out contains a modified and significantly inhibited sulfuric acid emulsion for enhanced penetration. Kleen Out is safe to use in most piping when used in accordance with the products labeling...

The MSDS states that this product is composed of 93-99% sulfuric acid and 1-7% water
http://www.betterbiltchemical.com/Prod%20Data%20&%20Msds...

The inhibitors used could be any number of things but the most likely suspects are simple antioxidants in the form of organics or inorganic salts and surface passivating molecules such as benzotriazole. While just about anything found in concentrated sulfuric acid will eventually break down into volatiles and soluble sulfates (solid char and insoluble salts won't be an issue when attempting to purify a product like this) with sufficient heating, the more important concern one should note when attempting to use a consumer grade product like this is the variability in concentration. The concentration of acid in this product can be easily found through titration with any indicator, eg phenopthalein, and if your building your skill set, this exercise should be performed with the highest priority and accuracy.

[Edited on 8-9-2017 by bheilmannd]

[Edited on 8-9-2017 by bheilmannd]

Dragonjack12 - 23-11-2018 at 18:29

Mi. Got this for my b day. It is insanely good. I titrated to 97%

MrHomeScientist - 26-11-2018 at 08:27

Quote: Originally posted by Venom666  
Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys  
I find that most contaminants are easy to deal with. I usually add about 5% by volume of 29% H2O2 to the acid and then bring it to a boil. The boiling concentrates it a bit further but also completely annihilates any organic matter present that gives it any color. You can buy black/pink drain cleaner acid and go to water-white conc. sulfuric in about an hour. I think most of the buffered stuff has organic sulfonates in it which are rapidly destroyed.


Doesn't this create a quantity of Piranha solution (H2SO5)?
If so, would that not create a dangerous possibility of unstable compounds when using this new acid/oxidant in chemical reactions? I'm pretty new to this, so forgive me if it's a stupid question.

Thanks

I believe the boiling will decompose any leftover peroxide that didn't react the organics away. Sounds like a good procedure to me.