Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Caffeine breakdown?

Fantasma4500 - 22-1-2016 at 06:25

not specifically for chemistry purposes, but i have noticed dissolving caffeine in water, including magnesium chloride in a 1:2 ratio usually 2.5g caffeine and 5g MgCl2 in 500mL water in a polyethylene terepthalate plastic bottle, that the caffeine seems to degrade over time?? a drop of HCl or 2 is added to ensure the MgCl2 doesnt hydrolyze into strong laxatives such as Mg(OH)2 or MgCO3

caffeine is however possibly likely to resist in water accordingly to this PDF

http://las.utalca.cl/EST2005.pdf

so i dont understand quite why the caffeine is going weak, it surely is not about tolerance buildup as a fresh bottle of caffeine solution is a lot stronger than a old one
it is in the PDF claimed that caffeine is strongly antioxidative, even stronger than ascorbic acid..?

im thinking UV may be possibly main reason for it getting "weaker", others than that there is the plastic it could react with, air, the plastic bottle, the water, the magnesium chloride and finally the HCl although it sounds lucid that 2 drops of HCl should be able to break down several grammes of caffeine in heavily diluted solution

any ideas? my best bet is UV, but it isnt getting exposed as much to UV as you would imagine leading to about 50% of the caffeine breaking down

PlatinumLab - 22-1-2016 at 15:36

MgCl2 is a weak lewis acid. I can see how it would interact with caffeine in a number of ways, potentially activating it to attack by water. Just a hypothesis.

Fantasma4500 - 23-1-2016 at 01:40

i do have magnesium chloride and caffeine bottles stored seperately as well, although the magnesium chloride bottle seems to support some sort of odd cotton wool like organism that keeps growing back, no sugar or similar in it, no smell

i guess ill try testing it stored with and without magnesium chloride

unionised - 23-1-2016 at 05:39

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
not specifically for chemistry purposes, but i have noticed dissolving caffeine in water, including magnesium chloride in a 1:2 ratio usually 2.5g caffeine and 5g MgCl2 in 500mL water in a polyethylene terepthalate plastic bottle, that the caffeine seems to degrade over time?? a drop of HCl or 2 is added to ensure the MgCl2 doesnt hydrolyze into strong laxatives such as Mg(OH)2 or MgCO3

caffeine is however possibly likely to resist in water accordingly to this PDF

http://las.utalca.cl/EST2005.pdf

so i dont understand quite why the caffeine is going weak, it surely is not about tolerance buildup as a fresh bottle of caffeine solution is a lot stronger than a old one
it is in the PDF claimed that caffeine is strongly antioxidative, even stronger than ascorbic acid..?

im thinking UV may be possibly main reason for it getting "weaker", others than that there is the plastic it could react with, air, the plastic bottle, the water, the magnesium chloride and finally the HCl although it sounds lucid that 2 drops of HCl should be able to break down several grammes of caffeine in heavily diluted solution

any ideas? my best bet is UV, but it isnt getting exposed as much to UV as you would imagine leading to about 50% of the caffeine breaking down


What makes you think the solution is becoming weak? How do you measure it?


Also, it's the magnesium ions that produce a laxative effect, so the HCl won't affect that.

Fantasma4500 - 28-1-2016 at 07:27

i wont play games with it, i have first hand felt magnesium sulfate being a stronger laxative than magnesium chloride, and even more -- magnesium chloride i made myself where some of the product very likely hydrolyzed

however the way we found that the caffeine is "breaking down" is that we simply doesnt get any buzz from it at the same doses, and its not about body getting used to it, as we can dissolve more and it works wonders once again, not quite sure if i have access to anything to datalogically agree that the caffeine gets less efficient

one odd thing i found with caffeine however, if you take it without magnesium supplement, both dissolved in water, caffeine alone may take 40 minutes before you start really feeling it, but its almost instantly with magnesium dissolved in water (as in, an ionic solution)

you may argue that magnesium chloride is poorly bioavailable, although magnesium carbonate shouldnt be more bioavailable, but is a lot stronger laxative